Government Efficiency (1 Viewer)

[RobF]

I think this topic deserves its own thread, both to discuss generally the topic of government efficiency, and specifically the so-called 'Department of Government Efficiency' and the incoming Trump administration's aims to "dismantle Government Bureaucracy, slash excess regulations, cut wasteful expenditures and restructure Federal Agencies".

The announcements have been covered in the The Trump Cabinet and key post thread, but to recap, Trump has announced that Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy will work together on a not-actually-an-official-government-Department of Government Efficiency, which is intended to work with the White House and Office of Management & Budget to "drive large scale structural reform, and create an entrepreneurial approach to Government never seen before," with the 'Department' to conclude its work "no later than July 4, 2026."

Musk has previously said that the federal budget could be reduced by "at least $2 trillion", and Ramaswarmy, during his presidential campaign, said he would fire more than 75% of the federal work force and disband agencies including the Department of Education and the FBI.

 

[bird]

My understanding is that he is not officially considered convicted until he is sentenced. IOW the trial isn’t done. That’s why he cannot appeal the conviction. It’s unfair not to complete the process in the lower court. If everyone is equal before the law, finish the process by either sentencing him or dismissing the case.
JMHO

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maylawllp.com

Your understanding/opinion/belief is in error. Once convicted you are a felon. Sentencing is the punishment phase, not the guilty/not guilty phase.

 

[TampaJoe]

Who is Considered a “Felon”? - May Law, LLP

If you or someone you know has been classified a felon, consult with a criminal defense attorney as soon as possible to weigh out any options you may have. Call now.

maylawllp.com

Your understanding/opinion/belief is in error. Once convicted you are a felon. Sentencing is the punishment phase, not the guilty/not guilty phase.

I heard differently. But the point is they should either sentence the man or dismiss the case.

 

[superchuck500]

My understanding is that he is not officially considered convicted until he is sentenced. IOW the trial isn’t done. That’s why he cannot appeal the conviction. It’s unfair not to complete the process in the lower court. If everyone is equal before the law, finish the process by either sentencing him or dismissing the case.
JMHO

Yeah, I think that the case isn't concluded (and appealable) until the sentencing. But he's convicted upon the verdict.

I'm sure one of those two results will be coming before too long. The motion to dismiss is new and the parties all agreed that it would be appropriate to postpone the sentencing until the court could review the issues raised in Trump's post-conviction filings, some of which are novel. It's a challenging set of issues, I don't think anyone is dragging their feet to try to suspend Trump in purgatory.

 

[MT15]

I heard differently.

that’s because the people you listen to just make shirt up. He’s a convicted felon. No amount of wishcasting by making shirt up will change that.

As for you feeling sorry for him that his sentencing is delayed - that’s really rich considering how he used every method he could find to delay all his trials.

 

[Optimus Prime]

House Speaker Mike Johnson intends to cut 75 percent of all federal agencies with the help of Elon Musk’s outside commission known as the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE.

“We certainly hope” to slash the number of federal agencies from 428 to 99, as Musk has vowed, Johnson said in response to a question from Fox News host Martha McCallum in an interview Wednesday night. “We want to be willing partners in that,” he added.

He noted he aims to cut all funding for PBS and Planned Parenthood. “I would like to, that’s for sure,” said Johnson.

As for dismantling agencies, “We have the opportunity to go in and really take back control from the administrative state,” he said…….

Mike Johnson aiming to ax 75 percent of federal agencies

House Speaker pledges to ‘take a blowtorch to the administrative state and reduce the size and scope of government’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Saint by the Bay]

They can't get that done in two years and they will lose their historically small majority in 2026. DOGE is a non factor shiney object.

 

[MT15]

What they can do in 2 years is find ways to disadvantage their competitors companies and give their companies and their friends companies advantages. They could make millions during 2 years.

 

[superchuck500]

They can't get that done in two years and they will lose their historically small majority in 2026. DOGE is a non factor shiney object.

Yeah, agree - there's going to be some trimming around the edges in certain areas, the easy stuff that OMB can get done on its own. But the rest of the stuff is going to come up against the combined buzzsaw of the administrative law infrastructure and lack of popularity in Congress. It's hard to imagine that this approach is going to yield much.

The basic idea remains compelling! But it has to be thoughtful, precise, and meticulous in the context of how the federal government operates under the APA and in Congress. And it would be absolutely tedious. I just don't think these bozos have the grind that this is going to take - and they certainly don't have the knowledge (though we'll have to see who they bring on.). But they think that they're geniuses because they have a breakdown of the federal budget and a highlighter pen to say "oh this can go, and this, and this" - lol. Anyone can do that - that's not the hard part.

And it's still way too early to know, but in all that is the Trump psyche, he's actually fairly adept at not committing support unless he has to - just because Elon, Vivek, and Pastor Johnson talk about cuts doesn't mean Trump is going to push for them.

 

[superchuck500]

He’s a convicted felon. No amount of wishcasting by making shirt up will change that.

It is true that he's a convicted felon regardless of whatever the sentence may be. He's not, however, a convicted felon if the court grants the motion to dismiss or if an appellate court overturns the conviction.

 

[bird]

Yeah, agree - there's going to be some trimming around the edges in certain areas, the easy stuff that OMB can get done on its own. But the rest of the stuff is going to come up against the combined buzzsaw of the administrative law infrastructure and lack of popularity in Congress. It's hard to imagine that this approach is going to yield much.

The basic idea remains compelling! But it has to be thoughtful, precise, and meticulous in the context of how the federal government operates under the APA and in Congress. And it would be absolutely tedious. I just don't think these bozos have the grind that this is going to take - and they certainly don't have the knowledge (though we'll have to see who they bring on.). But they think that they're geniuses because they have a breakdown of the federal budget and a highlighter pen to say "oh this can go, and this, and this" - lol. Anyone can do that - that's not the hard part.

And it's still way too early to know, but in all that is the Trump psyche, he's actually fairly adept at not committing support unless he has to - just because Elon, Vivek, and Pastor Johnson talk about cuts doesn't mean Trump is going to push for them.

Trump will push. In his own inimitable and infinity stupid way he will push. The gullible idiots who voted for him will cheer him of because THEY DON’T BELIEVE IT WILL IMPACT THEM. at least, not until the law of unintended consequences squashes them like bugs.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the American public.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Trump will push. In his own inimitable and infinity stupid way he will push. The gullible idiots who voted for him will cheer him of because THEY DON’T BELIEVE IT WILL IMPACT THEM. at least, not until the law of unintended consequences squashes them like bugs.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the American public.

That sounds like a theorem of some sort...

 

[CoolBrees]

I think you are all missing the point of the DOGE.

It is to make these people even richer.

IMO, the clear target here is the bidding and procurement processes. Currently they are long and arduous. On purpose and for good reason.

Government bid require official postings, mandatory timelines for review, questions and response, and a minimum of three qualified bidders; the lowest qualified bidder, whose bid is "deemed complete" is the winner.

It is how we keep cheating and bribery out of government contracts.

In very short order they will begin talking about how slow and inefficient this process is and how streamlining bidding will save billions. Which it won't, only ensure certain people win the contracts.

This is the first real step towards oligarchy.

 

[bird]

I think you are all missing the point of the DOGE.

It is to make these people even richer.

IMO, the clear target here is the bidding and procurement processes. Currently they are long and arduous. On purpose and for good reason.

Government bid require official postings, mandatory timelines for review, questions and response, and a minimum of three qualified bidders; the lowest qualified bidder, whose bid is "deemed complete" is the winner.

It is how we keep cheating and bribery out of government contracts.

In very short order they will begin talking about how slow and inefficient this process is and how streamlining bidding will save billions. Which it won't, only ensure certain people win the contracts.

This is the first real step towards oligarchy.

Oh, I agree. Those agencies where they cannot grift will fall under the blade.

In addition, if Trump is successful in gutting civil service this opens the door for further grifting. I think that even a SCOTUS as corrupt as this one is, it would not permit that. Then again, restraint isn’t a Trump attribute and he may try to ignore the SCOTUS.

The election of this guy is the ultimate FAFO.

 

[bird]

That sounds like a theorem of some sort...

 

[superchuck500]

I think you are all missing the point of the DOGE.

It is to make these people even richer.

IMO, the clear target here is the bidding and procurement processes. Currently they are long and arduous. On purpose and for good reason.

Government bid require official postings, mandatory timelines for review, questions and response, and a minimum of three qualified bidders; the lowest qualified bidder, whose bid is "deemed complete" is the winner.

It is how we keep cheating and bribery out of government contracts.

In very short order they will begin talking about how slow and inefficient this process is and how streamlining bidding will save billions. Which it won't, only ensure certain people win the contracts.

This is the first real step towards oligarchy.

Perhaps - but most of that stuff is statutory (Competition in Contracting Act and Federal Procurement Policy Act). It's not easily revised or short-cutted.

 

[CoolBrees]

Perhaps - but most of that stuff is statutory (Competition in Contracting Act and Federal Procurement Policy Act). It's not easily revised or short-cutted.

Wouldn't it just take an act of Congress under the Congressional Review Act? Changing agency rules only take a majority vote.

Or someone could challenge it to the SCOTUS. And there are places to hit.

There is DEI built into the statutes - women and minority owned businesses get preference.

It has been the white whale for corporate America ever since Halliburton got the no-bid to rebuild Iraq.

 

[UriUT]

I understand that we have strong statutory guard rails. I'm holding on to that thin thread of hope because thats all we have left. But we are talking about people who view the law as speed bumps. They don't hold any particular core uncompromising ideology.

We have laws against foreign entities contributing to government officials, yet we had that DC hotel. Egypt brazenly withdrawing us dollars from a bank and handing it to trump's people in 100 lb bags. That's only the surface.

And I don't think he will go forth w mass detention for immigrants or cutting 75% of the bureaucracy. These are merely sleight of hand to distract. If we are to learn from those eastern European countries, the path first is corruption. The bureaucracy and then the courts are much longer term processes.

The media companies would fall next after corruption.

 

[MT15]

I understand that we have strong statutory guard rails. I'm holding on to that thin thread of hope because thats all we have left. But we are talking about people who view the law as speed bumps. They don't hold any particular core uncompromising ideology.

We have laws against foreign entities contributing to government officials, yet we had that DC hotel. Egypt brazenly withdrawing us dollars from a bank and handing it to trump's people in 100 lb bags. That's only the surface.

And I don't think he will go forth w mass detention for immigrants or cutting 75% of the bureaucracy. These are merely sleight of hand to distract. If we are to learn from those eastern European countries, the path first is corruption. The bureaucracy and then the courts are much longer term processes.

The media companies would fall next after corruption.

Every single billionaire he is proposing for his Cabinet only cares about one thing - enriching themselves. They care not one bit about helping ordinary people, in fact there’s evidence they want us to have it worse than we do now. The corruption will be massive. It will damage this country in ways we probably cannot imagine right now. Foreign policy driven by an oligarchy. Same with domestic policy.

We haven’t ever had passports - used to not need them to travel to Canada and Mexico, and we haven’t ever gone to any other countries than those. We ordered them a few weeks ago.

It may not get that bad, but there’s a non-zero chance that it will.