General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (6 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[Sendai]

And, like I said and nobody replies - who will enforce it? The courts can rule it is unconstitutional, but it will be appealed and if the court doesn’t stay the deportations they will proceed apace. Even if they get a stay, who will enforce it? Once these US citizens are deported, then what?

Trump has made it abundantly clear - unless he is surrounded by people who will check him, he will not care what the courts say. Nobody in this term will be present who is inclined to check him.

They are floating loyalty oaths for the military brass, for crying out loud. They intend to create a commission of retired military who are MAGA to weed out officers who won’t sign it. Again most likely unconstitutional, but who will enforce it?

The courts will stay the actions until litigation.

 

[superchuck500]

Will the Constitution physically stop him? You’re not thinking clearly. This is a man who said “So?” when he was informed that the mob was looking for Pence and chanting “Hang Mike Pence”.

I didn’t know the Constitution had any actual enforcement mechanism. Guess which branch enforces fhe Constitution and who controls that branch.

What will it take for you to wake up?

I think the Constitution does have enforcement mechanism. The Supreme Court authority and the oath to uphold the Constitution are powerful.

I know there’s a ton of cynicism but the Court isn’t going cancel or ignore express, unambiguous provisions in the Constitution. The 22nd amendment is express and unambiguous. If it comes down to it the Court is going to order it be enforced. And I still don’t think Trump and MAGA are able to complete a full-blown constitutional crisis that obliterates the Constitution entirely.

For what it’s worth, I also don’t think there’s going to be much appetite for a third Trump term, both on his age and performance.

 

[Optimus Prime]

What is amusing to me is that so many folks on the left think everyone on the right lacks the ability to make reasoned and rational decisions.

We’re about to find out

If the GOP comes to the reasoned and rational conclusion that Matt Gaetz shouldn’t be the Attorney General, but confirms him anyway what would that say?

That one congressman has already come out and said his job to rubber stamp whatever Trump wants

 

[TampaJoe]

I will take your word for it - apologies. Most people are acting like he has a mandate though, which he doesn’t. Dem policies on referendums in most states won, as did Dem incumbent Senators for the most part. Trump had a group of people who voted for him and nobody else. That’s cult-like whether you like it or not.


And please extend to me the same courtesy. I haven’t said Trump is Hitler. He is being compared to Hitler, as he should be, due to his rhetoric which mirrors Hitler. Maybe you think it isn’t a problem for a politician to mimic Hitler? I think it’s a problem which should be pointed out.

Yeah well I know a great many of the folks who voter for him and they aren’t cultist. Calling them that doesn’t help.

I misspoke when I said you called him Hitler. My apologies. But comparing him to Hitler is pretty much the same thing. Maybe your perspective on that part of history is different from mine but IMO Trump isn’t close to Hitler. Not even a scratch on Hitler. It is the ultimate in false equivalencies. JMHO

 

[Optimus Prime]

If you don’t want to be compared with Hitler stop saying things comparable to things Hitler said

Do you deny that there are some uneasy parallels?

And when neo Nazis say how much they love you and how you’re one of them and are excited about what you’ll do maybe come out a little more forcefully against that instead of saying “stand back and stand by”

 

[TampaJoe]

“The worst Republican is better than the best Democrat”

“Flawed” is doing a lot of heavy lifting

Donald Trump is far beyond merely being flawed

He is singularly, seriously and dangerously unfit and unworthy to be president of the United States

The people he is nominating are seriously unfit for their appointments

I’ve said before first hand foremost I blame the people who voted for him so the other ones who need to justify why they did

And when someone has as much baggage and red flags as Trump does “they were mean when they called him a Nazi!” isn’t a good enough reason

I didn’t say any of that. Stop putting words in my mouth. Trump is a bad Republican and doesn’t deserve the office. That’s true. I hope he isn’t the best they have to offer. And I’m hoping Kamala isn’t the best the Dems have to offer. But I don’t control any of that. I’m guessing you don’t either.

Blame the voters if you choose. Up to you. I think you miss the point. Not everybody views him or Jan 6 as you do. If most of your time is spent trying to convince them otherwise, you are wasting time and resources and you won’t see it coming. And you didn’t. Carvel said it years ago. It’s the economy stupid. Are you better off today that four years ago? If the answer is no the response is more of the same, you are fighting an uphill battle.

Nobody likes what happened on Jan 6. But that wasn’t the only issue.

 

[TampaJoe]

If you don’t want to be compared with Hitler stop saying things comparable to things Hitler said

Do you deny that there are some uneasy parallels?

And when neo Nazis say how much they love you and how you’re one of them and are excited about what you’ll do maybe come out a little more forcefully against that instead of saying “stand back and stand by”

If you are comparing me to Hitler then we have nothing to talk about.

If you are comparing Trump to Hitler, that’s up to you. He’s many things and a lot of them aren’t good but he’s no Hitler.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Trump has said quite a few things that are eerily early hitler like

Does that mean Trump will go full bore Hitler? No

But that doesn’t change the fact he’s said a lot of things that are Hitler like

 

[samiam5211]

Yeah well I know a great many of the folks who voter for him and they aren’t cultist. Calling them that doesn’t help.

I misspoke when I said you called him Hitler. My apologies. But comparing him to Hitler is pretty much the same thing. Maybe your perspective on that part of history is different from mine but IMO Trump isn’t close to Hitler. Not even a scratch on Hitler. It is the ultimate in false equivalencies. JMHO

If a Navy Seal sniper tries to shoots and murders you and a person who has never held a firearm before tries to shoot and murder you but misses, is one of them a better person than the other?

 

[superchuck500]

I didn’t say any of that. Stop putting words in my mouth. Trump is a bad Republican and doesn’t deserve the office. That’s true. I hope he isn’t the best they have to offer. And I’m hoping Kamala isn’t the best the Dems have to offer. But I don’t control any of that. I’m guessing you don’t either.

Blame the voters if you choose. Up to you. I think you miss the point. Not everybody views him or Jan 6 as you do. If most of your time is spent trying to convince them otherwise, you are wasting time and resources and you won’t see it coming. And you didn’t. Carvel said it years ago. It’s the economy stupid. Are you better off today that four years ago? If the answer is no the response is more of the same, you are fighting an uphill battle.

Nobody likes what happened on Jan 6. But that wasn’t the only issue.

Definitely other issues - including some very significant cultural issues that boil down to what the American cultural identity is. I think we have to careful in simply dismissing it all as rational response to economic realities (i.e. failures of the Biden administration) when those premises themselves are suspect and when there also appears to be this fairly obvious cultural component.

This will be a litmus test: when Trump’s economic policies fail to positively influence metrics like CPI and energy prices - or in fact make them worse as most economists predict - will the MAGAs and the broader Trump support hold to account on those same economic complaints? I’ve seen enough of this movie to go ahead and say it’s unlikely . . . so if that’s the case, is the “it’s the economy stupid” analysis really that persuasive?

Because it’s not really rational anyway. Most economic metrics are better now than four years ago (2020 was not a good year for the economy) but even if you say five years ago to get beyond the pandemic. Growth, earnings, wages, etc. have all been as good or better under Biden than Trump. Market returns and corporate profits have been substantially better (more than half of Americans have stocks in some form - retirement accounts have substantially outperformed).

The one drag has been inflation, which certainly hits hard in low to middle income households especially but out of all of the issues in the campaign, inflation was objectively Trump’s weakest. He has no plan to fight inflation apart from some misplaced notion that producing more fossil fuels in America is the answer (its not) - and his primary economic policies are actually inflationary.

I think it’s only part of the story. The other part is this story about a competing viewpoint on cultural identity and Trump unashamedly rejects American cultural (social) liberalism - and he has found substantial support in that view. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, I think that’s more important for many if not most Trump voters than inflation actually was. And that will be borne out by their tolerance for his inability to reduce inflation- and probably increase it.

 

[TampaJoe]

Definitely other issues - including some very significant cultural issues that boil down to what the American cultural identity is. I think we have to careful in simply dismissing it all as rational response to economic realities (i.e. failures on the Biden administration) when those premises themselves are suspect and when there also appears to be this fairly obvious cultural component.

This will be a litmus test: when Trump’s economic policies fail to positively influence metrics like CPI and energy prices - or in fact make them worse as most economists predict - will the MAGAs and the broader Trump support hold to account on those same economic complaints? I’ve seen enough of this movie to go ahead and say it’s unlikely . . . so if that’s the case, is the “it’s the economy stupid” analysis really that persuasive?

Because it’s not really rational anyway. Most economic metrics are better now than four years ago (2020 was not a good year for the economy) but even if you say five years ago to get beyond the pandemic. Growth, earnings, wages, etc. have all been as good or better under Biden than Trump. Market returns and corporate profits have been substantially better (more than half of Americans have stocks in some form - retirement accounts have substantially outperformed).

The one drag has been inflation, which certainly hits hard in low to middle income households especially but out of all of the issues in the campaign, it’s objectively true that Trump’s weakest was inflation. He has no plan to fight inflation apart from some misplaced notion that producing more fossil fuels in America is the answer (its not) - and his primary economic policies are actually inflationary.

I think it’s only part of the story. The other part is this story about a competing viewpoint on cultural identity and Trump unashamedly rejects American cultural liberalism - and he has found substantial support in that view. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, I think that’s more important for many if not most Trump voters than inflation actually was. And that will be borne out by their tolerance for his inability to reduce inflation- and probably increase it.

And his performance and the performance of his party should be held to account for their record. Good or bad. Blaming Biden won’t work.

 

[MT15]

I think the Constitution does have enforcement mechanism. The Supreme Court authority and the oath to uphold the Constitution are powerful.

I know there’s a ton of cynicism but the Court isn’t going cancel or ignore express, unambiguous provisions in the Constitution. The 22nd amendment is express and unambiguous. If it comes down to it the Court is going to order it be enforced. And I still don’t think Trump and MAGA are able to complete a full-blown constitutional crisis that obliterates the Constitution entirely.

For what it’s worth, I also don’t think there’s going to be much appetite for a third Trump term, both on his age and performance.

Yeah, but you’re not sure are you? I didn’t think he would do Jan 6, and I’m not going to be fooled again. There is no shortage of lawyers ready to enable his worst impulses and a fair number of MAGA judges out there, including 2 full blown on the Supreme Court. They won’t obliterate it all at once - they will chip away. They will argue that babies born to undocumented residents are not citizens, due to their parents not being legally here. Then it will go from there.

I’m not worried about a 3rd term, tbh, I’m worried about surviving this next term. I’m reading worrisome reports about that flu- H5N1, I think. Jumping from animals to people already. If it goes person-to-person, and we have these bozos in charge? We will not be safe.

 

[brandon]

I think the Constitution does have enforcement mechanism. The Supreme Court authority and the oath to uphold the Constitution are powerful.

We’re still on the same path I argued back in 2017.

There is no enforcement mechanism for anything the court orders if the branch of government charged with enforcement ignores the order.

 

[MT15]

Yeah well I know a great many of the folks who voter for him and they aren’t cultist. Calling them that doesn’t help.

So cultists were only one category of people who voted for Trump, I was quite clear about that. I even mentioned the others and why they might have voted for Trump. Honestly, Joe, either you aren’t reading what I post or you are deliberating mischaracterizing what I say. I don’t know you well enough to tell at this point, but I’m beginning to form an opinion.

 

[MT15]

But comparing him to Hitler is pretty much the same thing. Maybe your perspective on that part of history is different from mine but IMO Trump isn’t close to Hitler. Not even a scratch on Hitler. It is the ultimate in false equivalencies.

We’ve had this discussion before, but maybe you weren’t here then so I will recap.

People hear Hitler and they think of late stage Hitler, gassing people and running concentration camps.

Pretty much everyone who has been comparing Trump’s rhetoric to Hitler is quoting what Hitler had to say in his run up to get power - and the quotes are often published together so the comparison can be rightfully made. And if you would compare the rhetoric honestly, you would see that the similarities are quite stark and concerning.

Does it not concern you that the rhetoric is very much the same? It should give any person pause.

 

[TampaJoe]

So cultists were only one category of people who voted for Trump, I was quite clear about that. I even mentioned the others and why they might have voted for Trump. Honestly, Joe, either you aren’t reading what I post or you are deliberating mischaracterizing what I say. I don’t know you well enough to tell at this point, but I’m beginning to form an opinion.

I am not trying to mischaracterize what you say. I don’t like it when it happens to me so I try not to do the same to others. Feel free to correct me anytime I mischaracterize what you post. It is unintentional on my part.

 

[TampaJoe]

We’ve had this discussion before, but maybe you weren’t here then so I will recap.

People hear Hitler and they think of late stage Hitler, gassing people and running concentration camps.

Pretty much everyone who has been comparing Trump’s rhetoric to Hitler is quoting what Hitler had to say in his run up to get power - and the quotes are often published together so the comparison can be rightfully made. And if you would compare the rhetoric honestly, you would see that the similarities are quite stark and concerning.

Does it not concern you that the rhetoric is very much the same? It should give any person pause.

I’ve read quite a bit on that time in history and IMO it isn’t a valid comparison. But I’m tired of arguing the point. Think what you want.

 

[SamAndreas]

Christie says Trump’s most effective campaign ad was on Harris’s trans rights policy

One of the attack ads from the Trump campaign said: ‘Kamala is for they/them. President Trump is for you’

www.the-independent.com

Democrats need to seek his advice Imo

Why???