General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (2 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Remember the “big lie”? In 2020, Donald Trumplost the presidential election so Republicans just brazenly lied and insisted he won.

In 2024, we have a new post-election lie from the Republican party. Trump didn’t just win, they say, but he won big. He won a landslide. He won an historic mandate for his “Maga” agenda.

And it was Trump himself, of course, on election night, who was the first to push this grandiose and self-serving falsehood, calling his win “a political victory that our country has never seen before” and claiming “America has given us an unprecedented and powerful mandate”.


Republican politicians, masters of message discipline, quickly followed suit. The representative Elise Stefanik called her win a “historic landslide” while the senator John Barrasso called Trump’s a “huge landslide”. “On November 5 voters decisively elected Donald Trump with a mandate for sweeping change, and they deserve to get it,” wrote the “Doge” co-heads Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy in the Wall Street Journal on 20 November.

None of this is true. Yes, Trump won the popular vote and the electoral college. Yes, Republicans won the Senate and the House. But, contrary to both Republican talking points and breathless headlines and hot takes from leading media outlets (“resounding”, “rout”, “runaway win”), there was really nothing at all historic or huge about the margin of victory.

Repeat after me: there was no “landslide”. There was no “blowout”. There was no “sweeping”mandate given to Trump by the electorate. The numbers don’t lie.

First, consider the popular vote. Yes, Trump became the first Republican for two decades to win the popular vote. However, per results from CNN, the Cook Political Report, and the New York Times, he did not win a majority of the vote. Barack Obama did in both 2008 and 2016. Joe Biden did in 2020. But Donald Trump failed to do so in 2024.

And the former president’s margin of victory over Harris is a miniscule 1.6 percentage points, “smaller than that of every winning president since 1888 other than two: John F Kennedy in 1960 and Richard M. Nixon in 1968”, as an analysis in the New York Times noted last month. In fact, in the 55 presidential elections in which the popular vote winner became president, 49 of them were won with a margin bigger than Trump’s in 2024.

We actually know what a landslide in the popular vote looks like: the Democrat Lyndon Johnson defeated the Republican Barry Goldwater in 1964 by an enormous margin of 22.6 percentage points!


Second, consider the electoral college. Trump won 307 votes, which is 37 more than is needed to secure victory in the electoral college. But it’s still far fewer than Bill Clinton won in 1992 (370) and 1996 (379) and far fewer than Barack Obama won in 2008 (365) and 2012 (332). And it is pretty similar to what Trump himself won in 2016 (304) and what Biden won in 2020 (306). Trump’s margin of victory in the electoral college ranks 44 out of the 60 presidential elections in American history.

We actually know what a a landslide win in the electoral college looks like: the Republican Ronald Reagan won re-election with a whopping 525 electoral college votes in 1984!

By the way, did you know that Trump won the crucial blue wall states - Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin – by 231,000 votes? So if just 116,000 voters across those three swing states – or 0.7% of the total – had switched from Trump to Harris, it is the vice-president who would have won the electoral college … and the presidency!

Third, consider the so-called “coattails” effect,where a presidential candidate’s massive margin of victory also boosts their party’s numbers in Congress. In 2024, Republicans flipped the Senate and held onto the House but Trump still ended up having “limited coattails”, to quote from the New York Times analysis. Of the five battleground states (Arizona, Michigan, Nevada, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania) which held Senate races in November, the Republican candidate triumphed in only one of them (David McCormick in Pennsylvania, by a narrow 16,000 votes). Democrats held on to the other four.

So where were the Trump coattails in the Senate?

Meanwhile, over in the House of Representatives, Republicans held onto control of the chamber with the aid of an extremely partisan and anti-democratic gerrymander in North Carolina, signed off by a conservative-majority state supreme court. They are on course for what the CNN election analyst Harry Enten is calling a “record small majority”.


So where were the Trump coattails in the House?

And yet, the president-elect and his army of Republican sycophants cannot stop bragging about the landslide that wasn’t. You almost have to admire their chutzpah.…….

Donald Trump didn’t win by a historic landslide. It’s time to nip that lie in the bud | Mehdi Hasan

In 2024, we have a new post-election lie – Trump didn’t just win, Republicans say, but he won big. He won a landslide. That’s false

www.theguardian.com

 

[bird]

Remember the “big lie”? In 2020, Donald Trumplost the presidential election so Republicans just brazenly lied and insisted he won.

In 2024, we have a new post-election lie from the Republican party. Trump didn’t just win, they say, but he won big. He won a landslide. He won an historic mandate for his “Maga” agenda.

And it was Trump himself, of course, on election night, who was the first to push this grandiose and self-serving falsehood, calling his win “a political victory that our country has never seen before” and claiming “America has given us an unprecedented and powerful mandate”.


Republican politicians, masters of message discipline, quickly followed suit. The representative Elise Stefanik called her win a “historic landslide” while the senator John Barrasso called Trump’s a “huge landslide”. “On November 5 voters decisively elected Donald Trump with a mandate for sweeping change, and they deserve to get it,” wrote the “Doge” co-heads Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy in the Wall Street Journal on 20 November.

None of this is true. Yes, Trump won the popular vote and the electoral college. Yes, Republicans won the Senate and the House. But, contrary to both Republican talking points and breathless headlines and hot takes from leading media outlets (“resounding”, “rout”, “runaway win”), there was really nothing at all historic or huge about the margin of victory.

Repeat after me: there was no “landslide”. There was no “blowout”. There was no “sweeping”mandate given to Trump by the electorate. The numbers don’t lie.

First, consider the popular vote. Yes, Trump became the first Republican for two decades to win the popular vote. However, per results from CNN, the Cook Political Report, and the New York Times, he did not win a majority of the vote. Barack Obama did in both 2008 and 2016. Joe Biden did in 2020. But Donald Trump failed to do so in 2024.

And the former president’s margin of victory over Harris is a miniscule 1.6 percentage points, “smaller than that of every winning president since 1888 other than two: John F Kennedy in 1960 and Richard M. Nixon in 1968”, as an analysis in the New York Times noted last month. In fact, in the 55 presidential elections in which the popular vote winner became president, 49 of them were won with a margin bigger than Trump’s in 2024.

We actually know what a landslide in the popular vote looks like: the Democrat Lyndon Johnson defeated the Republican Barry Goldwater in 1964 by an enormous margin of 22.6 percentage points!


Second, consider the electoral college. Trump won 307 votes, which is 37 more than is needed to secure victory in the electoral college. But it’s still far fewer than Bill Clinton won in 1992 (370) and 1996 (379) and far fewer than Barack Obama won in 2008 (365) and 2012 (332). And it is pretty similar to what Trump himself won in 2016 (304) and what Biden won in 2020 (306). Trump’s margin of victory in the electoral college ranks 44 out of the 60 presidential elections in American history.

We actually know what a a landslide win in the electoral college looks like: the Republican Ronald Reagan won re-election with a whopping 525 electoral college votes in 1984!

By the way, did you know that Trump won the crucial blue wall states - Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin – by 231,000 votes? So if just 116,000 voters across those three swing states – or 0.7% of the total – had switched from Trump to Harris, it is the vice-president who would have won the electoral college … and the presidency!

Third, consider the so-called “coattails” effect,where a presidential candidate’s massive margin of victory also boosts their party’s numbers in Congress. In 2024, Republicans flipped the Senate and held onto the House but Trump still ended up having “limited coattails”, to quote from the New York Times analysis. Of the five battleground states (Arizona, Michigan, Nevada, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania) which held Senate races in November, the Republican candidate triumphed in only one of them (David McCormick in Pennsylvania, by a narrow 16,000 votes). Democrats held on to the other four.

So where were the Trump coattails in the Senate?

Meanwhile, over in the House of Representatives, Republicans held onto control of the chamber with the aid of an extremely partisan and anti-democratic gerrymander in North Carolina, signed off by a conservative-majority state supreme court. They are on course for what the CNN election analyst Harry Enten is calling a “record small majority”.


So where were the Trump coattails in the House?

And yet, the president-elect and his army of Republican sycophants cannot stop bragging about the landslide that wasn’t. You almost have to admire their chutzpah.…….

Donald Trump didn’t win by a historic landslide. It’s time to nip that lie in the bud | Mehdi Hasan

In 2024, we have a new post-election lie – Trump didn’t just win, Republicans say, but he won big. He won a landslide. That’s false

www.theguardian.com

I get it but that is irrelevant to MAGA.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Great to hear this, because by this "reasoning" the "values" of Trump and MAGA became not in vogue and rejected when they lost in 2020, so they can't possibly have won now.

Unless you "think" electoral defeat is only a definitive rejection of the party's values when it's not your side that loses.

Which you do, obviously.

I don't think the MAGA values won in the Senate and the House.
Actually I think the Christian Judeo values won.
I think Trump benefitted from this. The people of God realizing the country was going in the wrong direction and they prayed and prayed and then voted.
Trump himself is NOT the example of values I'd like to hold up.
Having said that, I think he will be used of God anyway.
There are plenty of examples in the Bible where God used an "unrighteous king" to serve his purposes. I think the next 4 years will be just like that.
Starting with Trump's recent threat re. Israeli hostages needing to be released prior to Trump taking the oath of office.

 

[Optimus Prime]

So glad to read @J-DONK 's post. Using his post as a springboard I'll be going well beyond what he said. I will say this: Progressive values are not in vogue.
The "values" of San Francisco and Los Angeles and Hollywood were rejected.
Lengthy articles (@Optimus Prime )that offer or try to look for some other explanation are a waste of time.
Our democracy not collapse. We are not on the path of Ancient Rome.
Our society will not collapse.
We will prosper.

Not reading lengthy articles is why we are where we are

Not reading lengthy articles is why over 70% of republicans believe that 2020 was stolen

Not reading lengthy articles is why Google searches "Did Biden drop out?", "What is Project 2025?", "What do tariffs do?" skyrocketed ON ELECTION DAY!!!

Trump famously said that he "loves the poorly educated". Of course he does, his political existence depends on them. Both them and the wealthy educated who stand to become much wealthier and wealthy enough to endure whatever other chaos emerges (when your net worth goes up by tens of millions of dollars you really don't care that eggs costs a couple bucks more than they used to)

I think it's less that the progressive values were rejected and more that Trump's and MAGA "morals, values, personality and character" were embraced ( and I do believe there is a difference)

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I don't think the MAGA values won in the Senate and the House.
Actually I think the Christian Judeo values won.
I think Trump benefitted from this. The people of God realizing the country was going in the wrong direction and they prayed and prayed and then voted.
Trump himself is NOT the example of values I'd like to hold up.
Having said that, I think he will be used of God anyway.
There are plenty of examples in the Bible where God used an "unrighteous king" to serve his purposes. I think the next 4 years will be just like that.
Starting with Trump's recent threat re. Israeli hostages needing to be released prior to Trump taking the oath of office.

It's a cult.

 

[coldseat]

I don't think the MAGA values won in the Senate and the House.
Actually I think the Christian Judeo values won.
I think Trump benefitted from this. The people of God realizing the country was going in the wrong direction and they prayed and prayed and then voted.
Trump himself is NOT the example of values I'd like to hold up.
Having said that, I think he will be used of God anyway.
There are plenty of examples in the Bible where God used an "unrighteous king" to serve his purposes. I think the next 4 years will be just like that.
Starting with Trump's recent threat re. Israeli hostages needing to be released prior to Trump taking the oath of office.

"Christian Judeo (it used to be Judeo-Christian, weird how that order changed) values" voters will destroy this republic. Your values elected the most corrupt, self serving, and lying president in American History. Twice! All "god" will use him for is to hate those you hate. But as that hate flows from him, it will destroy everything around him. Nothing will improve under Trump.

Wish people would grow up and stop relying on their bible fairy tails. All it is is a little comforting blanket to wrap around you in an uncertain world and make things like Trump, that go against everything you profess to believe, to appear to be a legitimate choice because "god will use them to serve his purposes". That has never been true, but let Trump wrap himself in a flag and bible and you all believe it.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

"Christian Judeo (it used to be Judeo-Christian, weird how that order changed) values" voters will destroy this republic. Your values elected the most corrupt, self serving, and lying president in American History. Twice! All "god" will use him for is to hate those you hate. But as that hate flows from him, it will destroy everything around him. Nothing will improve under Trump.

Wish people would grow up and stop relying on their bible fairy tails. All is it is a little comforting blanket to wrap you up in an uncertain world and make things like Trump, that go against everything you profess to believe, to appear to be a legitimate choice because "god will use them to serve his purposes". That has never been true, but let Trump wrap himself in a flag and bible and you all believe it.

It has nothing to do with their Judeo-Christian values.

They don't like "others" and Trump hates "others" too. They wrap themselves in the Bible, as Trump does. as armor against criticism. To criticize their disdain for gays, trans, women, and minorities is to show disdain for God.

Slavery was also presented as a Jeudeo-Christian value and it was the same thing. People wanted free labor but that sounded bad so, God. Any time Christians know deep down what they believe is morally wrong they wallpaper over it with the Bible.

 

[Optimus Prime]

It has nothing to do with their Judeo-Christian values.

They don't like "others" and Trump hates "others" too. They wrap themselves in the Bible, as Trump does. as armor against criticism. To criticize their disdain for gays, trans, women, and minorities is to show disdain for God.

Slavery was also presented as a Jeudeo-Christian value and it was the same thing. People wanted free labor but that sounded bad so, God. Any time Christians know deep down what they believe is morally wrong they wallpaper over it with the Bible.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

I don't think the MAGA values won in the Senate and the House.
Actually I think the Christian Judeo values won.
I think Trump benefitted from this. The people of God realizing the country was going in the wrong direction and they prayed and prayed and then voted.
Trump himself is NOT the example of values I'd like to hold up.
Having said that, I think he will be used of God anyway.
There are plenty of examples in the Bible where God used an "unrighteous king" to serve his purposes. I think the next 4 years will be just like that.
Starting with Trump's recent threat re. Israeli hostages needing to be released prior to Trump taking the oath of office.

I saw my notifications and they were LOLs or Facepalms.
I am not going to bother clicking on them or viewing responses to those people.
Look at the way the US map looked when all votes were finally in.
MOST of the country was/is red.
The high population cities on the west and east coast are blue.
So what.
Much of America thinks there are only 2 genders and Judeo Christian values are better than Hollywood or Drag Queen values.
Most people believe that God Blessed America in the past but maybe morally we were heading toward Sodom and Gomorrah and we lost his blessing. I know in my church (and like minded churches as well) Christian people really stepped it up in praying this year compared to any election in my lifetime. (I'm 62)
NON Christians are going to think this is funny and stupid.
Historically the unbelievers laughed at Noah also...and then 100% of them died in the great flood. Only Noah and his family survived.
I don't care if you doubt that God's people prayed and God's will was done in this election.
I know it to be true....and that's all that matters to me.

 

[t_rav_82]

I saw my notifications and they were LOLs or Facepalms.
I am not going to bother clicking on them or viewing responses to those people.

This is probably the most self aware thing you have said. You likely wouldn't understand a lot of the reasons people are laughing and facepalming and it's probably a waste of your time to read them and try to understand something new.

Look at the way the US map looked when all votes were finally in.
MOST of the country was/is red.
The high population cities on the west and east coast are blue.
So what.

Land masses don't vote. Most of the country is not red. I thought the bible said you were not supposed to lie? Or do you take the Hebrews and Rahab approach in that lying is fine when you have a good enough reason for it? If you don't get that reference it wouldn't surprise me. It's in the bible, I suggest you read it sometime.

Much of America thinks there are only 2 genders and Judeo Christian values are better than Hollywood or Drag Queen values.
Most people believe that God Blessed America in the past but maybe morally we were heading toward Sodom and Gomorrah and we lost his blessing. I know in my church and like minded churches people really stepped it up in praying compared to any election in my lifetime.
NON Christians are going to think this is funny and stupid.
Historically the unbelievers laughed at Noah also...and then 100% of them died.

There are so many reasons why the story of Noah is made up. Fossil records, not enough water, logistical issues with the ark size and inbreeding. But let's just assume it's true. Any god that destroys 100% of people who don't believe in him, is a temper tantrum throwing evil moron. Especially when instead of murder, he could just use his god magic to make people believe.

I don't care if you doubt that God's people prayed and God's will was done in this election.
I know it to be true....and that's all that matters to me.

For an "all powerful" god, he sure does suck if Trump was the best he could do. I mean you'd think an all powerful loving god would be able to call upon someone to lead and unite us rather than divide and destroy us. But your god is evil so I guess that kinda makes sense.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Most people believe that God Blessed America in the past but maybe morally we were heading toward Sodom and Gomorrah and we lost his blessing. I know in my church (and like minded churches as well) Christian people really stepped it up in praying this year compared to any election in my lifetime. (I'm 62)
NON Christians are going to think this is funny and stupid.
Historically the unbelievers laughed at Noah also...and then 100% of them died in the great flood. Only Noah and his family survived.
I don't care if you doubt that God's people prayed and God's will was done in this election.
I know it to be true....and that's all that matters to me.

Does @SystemShock have a bat signal or something?

 

[CoolBrees]

You are talking to a person who thinks the earth is 6000 years old.

A person who thinks women came from a rib.

A person who thinks people are turned into salt.

And that's the logical stuff he believes.

The laws of physics and thermal dynamics don't exist in his world. Or they are more guidelines than laws that can be manipulated by one all knowing force.

It's weird how that all knowing force used to show his strength and will all of the time. Talked to people too. Ever since the world became round and gravity was a thing? nothing.

There are billions of people living today who believe in imaginary people and can't conceptualize physics and thermal dynamics. They're called children and I don't hold their world view in much regard either.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Look at the way the US map looked when all votes were finally in.
MOST of the country was/is red.
The high population cities on the west and east coast are blue.
So what.

I hate that this map is always brought up, it's what it always looks like

And yet the total number of votes cast for both sides are pretty close every election but they always parade this map out

As proof of an overwhelming mandate if GOP wins, or proof of...something shady if the Dem wins ("How is this possible?! Look at all the red!!")

I think that LA county and New York City by themselves have more voters than more than a few entire red states

If those 2 blue dots have more votes than half the country's map you think that means what exactly?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I hate that this map is always brought up, it's what it always looks like

And yet the total number of votes cast for both sides are pretty close every election but they always parade this map out

As proof of an overwhelming mandate if GOP wins, or proof of...something shady if the Dem wins ("How is this possible?! Look at all the red!!")

I think that LA county and Ney York City by themselves have more voters than more than a few entire red states

If those 2 blue dots have more votes than half the country's map you think that means what exactly?

If Los Angeles County and New York City were individual states, they would be 11th and 13th respectively in terms of population.

The total number of votes cast in LA County was higher than the total population of 20 states.

 

[Optimus Prime]

The total number of votes cast in LA County was higher than the total population of 20 states.

So again, I'd like @SteveSBrickNJ to say what exactly that fact means to him because that red/blue on a map would certainly look overwhelming

 

[cuddlemonkey]

So again, I'd like @SteveSBrickNJ to say what exactly that fact means to him because that red/blue on a map would certainly look overwhelming

Want me to post the map? lol

 

[Dragon]

I saw my notifications and they were LOLs or Facepalms.
I am not going to bother clicking on them or viewing responses to those people.
Look at the way the US map looked when all votes were finally in.
MOST of the country was/is red.
The high population cities on the west and east coast are blue.
So what.
Much of America thinks there are only 2 genders and Judeo Christian values are better than Hollywood or Drag Queen values.
Most people believe that God Blessed America in the past but maybe morally we were heading toward Sodom and Gomorrah and we lost his blessing. I know in my church (and like minded churches as well) Christian people really stepped it up in praying this year compared to any election in my lifetime. (I'm 62)
NON Christians are going to think this is funny and stupid.
Historically the unbelievers laughed at Noah also...and then 100% of them died in the great flood. Only Noah and his family survived.
I don't care if you doubt that God's people prayed and God's will was done in this election.
I know it to be true....and that's all that matters to me.

Let’s not forget: Jesus was a brown-eyed refugee baby fleeing persecution. In today’s Trump-dominated world, many of his followers would cheer if he drowned on barbed wire during that flight.

Jesus preached love and acceptance—not just for his followers, but for everyone. Yet, many Trump supporters seem willing to hate and attack anyone who doesn’t live like them. They turn a blind eye to racists, rapists, and frauds like Trump, who acts solely in his own self-interest.

Have they forgotten these words?

*"For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”*

Most MAGA supporters are Christians in name only (CINOs). They spread hate where Jesus preached love and acceptance.

 

[cuddlemonkey]