Final Presidential Debate (10/22/2020) (1 Viewer)

[MT15]

I feel like Biden campaign will be okay with this, but I wonder what Trump will say? I can’t imagine he will like it.

 

[nolaspe]

Chart of the day:

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

There are so many variables there. It will depend on if the Trump campaign can use it. The media cycle has already moved past it and the right-wing media is too obsessed with Hunter's laptop to drive home something that may actually help.

So if you ask me right now I'd say no, especially with how much of the vote has already been cast. If he was actually dealing with a competent campaign, absolutely.

That's the issue. Most of Trump's affiliates aren't going to even give that much shrift because it isn't salacious enough for the base.

 

[SystemShock]

Yeah, but this time.. with oil.

I read that in Don LaFontaine's voice.

 

[SystemShock]

Have you met people?

 

[SystemShock]

I have seen one ad. It was a Trump ad about lawlessness and had a mother being attacked or something in her car. IT looked like an SNL skit - really weird.

I guess I don't watch much tv and the little bit I do is usually mostly commercial-free for some reason. Probably also because I live in a state that really doesn't matter in this election.

They are all over youtube. That's where I see them.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

That's the issue. Most of Trump's affiliates aren't going to even give that much shrift because it isn't salacious enough for the base.

That’s the problem with this carefully cultivated conspiracy cult. When so many of your supporters believe in satanic pedophile rings, Manchurian candidates and that a couple of Arkansas hillbillies can kill dozens of people without leaving any evidence it makes more traditional political scandals quite quaint.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I think people are missing why Biden's statement on oil is a gaffe.

Trump: "Would you shut down the oil industry?"

Biden: "I'd transition from oil, yes."

The answer is "No, I wouldn't shut down the oil industry, but we do need to start moving toward transitioning from oil."

Or something like that. Responding in the positive to "Would you shut down the oil industry?" is a gaffe. People don't hear nuance. They aren't going to dissect the "transition" part of his statement. They will hear him responding in positive to "Would you shut down the oil industry?" It's a gaffe, and a big one with some battleground states (and Texas) being so reliant on the oil industry.

It's not what you say, but how your opponent can leverage what you say.

By starting with the qualifier first, most people heard and understand that he wants to transition and was not saying yes to an immediate shut down of the oil industry. Had he said "Yes, I want to transition from oil." Then there would be a concern that most people would have only heard "yes, I want to shutdown the oil industry."

For Trump to leverage his answer in any way, they will have to show Trump's question and then edit out the first part of Biden's answer of "I want to transition from oil." That would require an intentional misrepresentation of what was said. There's nothing anyone can do to prevent someone from intentionally misrepresenting them. Trump finds a way to do that with everyone regardless of what they actually do and do not say.

I think people's biases are causing them to see this as a gaffe. If you see someone as a gaffer, then you have an expectation they will gaffe which skews you toward looking for gaffes. We almost always see what we're looking for in others, even if it's not really there.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I think people's biases are causing them to see this as a gaffe. If you see someone as a gaffer, then you skew toward seeing gaffes in what they say.

I think it’s the other way around. I think sometimes people try way too hard to not admit a mistake, for themselves and others. I’m someone the readily admits mistakes, for myself and others.

This was a mistake. Not because Biden makes gaffes. He went 90 minutes and I’d say that was his only one. I think he’s done 2 nearly perfect Town Halls (a little rambling, but still very good). He didn’t make one real gaffe in the first debate. I thought he could be more aggressive the first 20 minutes of it, but I don’t think anyone could be prepared for the way Trump was behaving.

That means I think Biden has been gaffe free and done really good for about 360 minutes. Out of it I think he had one really silly sentence that could be exploited. That doesn’t sound like someone whose bias is expecting Biden to gaffe. It sounds like someone giving an honest critical assessment of a single response to a single question. An opinion widely agreed to across news channels last night and this morning.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

BTW, I couldn’t talk 360 minutes without a gaffe. My wife would say I can’t talk 36 minutes without one. I’d say she’s wrong but she might read this one day, so that would be a gaffe.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I think it’s the other way around. I think sometimes people try way too hard to not admit a mistake, for themselves and others. I’m someone the readily admits mistakes, for myself and others.

This was a mistake. Not because Biden makes gaffes. He went 90 minutes and I’d say that was his only one. I think he’s done 2 nearly perfect Town Halls (a little rambling, but still very good). He didn’t make one real gaffe in the first debate. I thought he could be more aggressive the first 20 minutes of it, but I don’t think anyone could be prepared for the way Trump was behaving.

That means I think Biden has been gaffe free and done really good for about 360 minutes. Out of it I think he had one really silly sentence that could be exploited. That doesn’t sound like someone whose bias is expecting Biden to gaffe. It sounds like someone giving an honest critical assessment of a single response to a single question. An opinion widely agreed to across news channels last night and this morning.

It's your perception that it was a mistake. It's my perception that it was not. We are both giving our honest critical assessments of Biden's answer based on our perceptions. Having biases does not make someone dishonest and I didn't mean in any way to give the impression that I was saying it does. Others having the same perceptions as us doesn't make any perception objectively true. Neither one of our perceptions or those of any of the people on news channels is necessarily indicative of anyone else's perception.

I understand why you and others perceive it as a mistake and that perception will be shared by a lot of others. That perception is true for anyone that sees it that way. It's inherently subjective, so no one is right or wrong here.

I'm also critical of myself and others, but I don't think his answer was a mistake for two reasons.

First, the psychology of communication which has shown that people who tune out a complete answer, do so after they hear the first thing that sounds like an answer to them. Not all people tune out during an answer and not all people tune out at the same point, so again, no one person's response is necessarily representative of anyone else's.

The answer was "I'm going transition off of oil, yes." There's only one point at which someone is likely going to tune out of that answer, after "I'm going to transition off of oil." That's why I don't think it's a mistake. He answered the question honestly and lead with the most important qualifier. I think it would have been stronger if he just said "I'm going to transition off of oil" and stopped there.

Second, there was no answer that he could give that Trump and those opposed to Biden weren't going to hammer him on.

• If he doesn't answer the question, Trump hammers him for hiding that he plans to shut down oil with video showing one of the many times Biden said he wants to move us off of oil.
• If he answers with only "I want to transition off of oil," Trump hammers him on that with misleading ads saying Biden's going to shut down oil.
• If he answers "no," Trump hammers him for lying with video showing one of the many times Biden said he wants to move us off of oil.

I think Biden showed some actual political courage to stand up for what he believes. I think we need more of that, not less. Some will agree and some will not. To those that agree, Biden didn't make a mistake. To those that disagree, Biden made a mistake.

The only objective criteria would be if someone runs a credible poll on that question. That's not going to happen, so all we have are perceptions and opinions. This is one of the rare instances in which all opinions are valid.

 

[Ayo]

If you click on "Learn More" it takes you on a chronological, infographic ride of Trump's words and the status of the pandemic

 

[The moose]

If you click on "Learn More" it takes you on a chronological, infographic ride of Trump's words and the status of the pandemic

that is just amazing

 

[wardorican]

If you click on "Learn More" it takes you on a chronological, infographic ride of Trump's words and the status of the pandemic

That's not even all of his bad quotes.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

That's not even all of his bad quotes.

Yeah, if you're going to do something like this, just go that extra bit and put in the entire timeline.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

If you click on "Learn More" it takes you on a chronological, infographic ride of Trump's words and the status of the pandemic

That is all types of petty right there...

 

[Ayo]

I really hope Biden wins just so poor Daniel Dale will finally be able to get some rest.

he knows he needs some, too...

 

[insidejob]

I don't agree with the way WWL assesses claims

Well, it is WWL after all. They're pretty much the last place I'd look for anything about something that isn't local.

 

[Lapaz]

I have seen one ad. It was a Trump ad about lawlessness and had a mother being attacked or something in her car. IT looked like an SNL skit - really weird.

I guess I don't watch much tv and the little bit I do is usually mostly commercial-free for some reason. Probably also because I live in a state that really doesn't matter in this election.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if every state were mandated to proportionally distribute their electors so that everyone's vote would matter? It's ridiculous to lose a state with millions of votes by a few hundred, yet get no electors from that state. It is also ridiculous for people in either very red or very blue states to feel disenfranchised, since their vote is meaningless to the results of that state. This needs to change.