Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland Streets (UPDATE: Trump admin. deploying federal LE to cities) (1 Viewer)

[Dragon]

“All United States Marshals Service arrestees have public records of arrest documenting their charges. Our agency did not arrest or detain Mark James Pettibone.”

OPB sent DHS an extensive list of questions about Pettibone’s arrest including: What is the legal justification for making arrests away from federal property? What is the legal justification for searching people who are not participating in criminal activity? Why are federal officers using civilian vehicles and taking people away in them? Are the arrests federal officers make legal under the constitution? If so, how?

After 7 p.m. Thursday, a DHS spokesperson responded, on background, that they could confirm Wolf was in Portland during the day. The spokesperson didn’t acknowledge the remaining questions.

Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland Streets

Federal law enforcement officers have been using unmarked vehicles to drive around downtown Portland and detain protesters since at least July 14.

www.opb.org

This story is very troublesome.

 

[Farb]

View attachment 2043

Terrifying.

 

[Maxp]

View attachment 2044

What is sad is that it is completely believable that one of Trump's goons would wear an SS patch.

 

[Richard]

I am very glad that UTJ and Jim Everett have begun the discussion of process and focused more on the role of federal agents in regular policing. There is a lot of chest beating about what we believe has been happening in Portland, but I have yet to see credible video providing the kind of context needed to make some of the determinations being made.

Outside of agencies like the FBI, DEA, etc. whose roles require their agents to deploy nationally in the course of their regular duties, I believe the default position of federal agents should be non-intervention in local/state matters of law enforcement without written request by that local authority. Even in cases where local law enforcement is overwhelmed by civil unrest, I believe the city should request aid from the state, which could coordinate assistance from state agencies and other cities of that state. Only in the gravest of circumstances, should a governor then request assistance from the federal government. I cannot envision a scenario in which a local government and a governor would be so negligent in protecting the life and property of their constituencies that a unilateral federal response would be necessary.

That said, I agree that it is the duty and responsibility of the federal government to protect federal buildings. If there is a volatile situation where there has been destruction of private property in the proximity of a federal building, it is reasonable in my view for federal agents to establish a perimeter around that building that cannot be breached without consequences. That does not deprive anyone of their rights to peacefully protest beyond that perimeter if permitted by local authorities. The throwing of items like frozen water bottles is an intent to do bodily harm and lobbing Molotov cocktails shows intent to destroy property. It ceases to be a peaceful protest at that point and has become a riot. Since the role of the federal agents is the protection of the building, unless they can positively identify the person(s) responsible for those actions, they should not be arresting anyone. They should remain in place to protect the building, relying on local authorities to extent the perimeter and arrest anarchists who can be identified.

Extending a federal law enforcement role to cities which have a growing crime problem should be a non-starter without a request for assistance. It is not their primary function and shouldn't even be considered as a federal response to a local matter without some unusual mitigating factor.

Back to Portland. It has a long history of protests, antifa activity and Proud Boys agitation. Portland police and local government officials have seemed to me to be particularly impotent in dealing with those who seek confrontation and incite disturbance. I have little understanding of the situation on the ground there, so I don't know what efforts have been made by local authorities during this protest. It seems to me that it shouldn't take over 50 days of protests to make grievances known and develop a plan to address the grievances. If this is primarily a BLM protest, which I had believed it to be early on, surely the protesters understand that racism will not be eradicated by the end of their protests. If they are seeking the resolution of other grievances, is there some point at which they will consider their grievances to have been heard by the proper authority? Is a commitment to certain policies necessary to end the protests? I have no problem whatsoever with peaceful protests. I believe they should be allowed to protest as long as local authorities grant them permits or there is a general understanding of purpose. But protesters should also understand that law enforcement has an obligation to protect life and property and really should be the first to stand up and say these people are not with us and assist the police in rooting them out. Just ostracizing them isn't enough; point them out to police, so the peaceful protest may continue.

 

[Eeyore]

What is sad is that it is completely believable that one of Trump's goons would wear an SS patch.

I didn't notice. That part is doctored. I saw the original yesterday.

 

[Eeyore]

Trump is calling protesters terrorists. That puts him in the company of the world’s autocrats | CNN Politics

Heavily armed, unidentifiable security agents dressed in camouflage have been snatching anti-racism protesters off the streets of Portland, Oregon, and bundling them into unmarked cars, with no clear justification. They’re scenes you might expect to see in authoritarian countries, not in America.

www.cnn.com

 

[CoolBrees]

My wife got home last night early. About 1:30, before the fences were breached.

She was brought home by other WoMs as she was struck in the abdomen with a canister. It was either on top of her or directly next to her as she suffered from severe gas poisoning, and came home unable to walk and throwing up. I put her in the shower and sat in a cold showered with her on the floor convulsing and throwing up until about two hours ago.

She was sobbing uncontrollably. She finally was able to tell me what happened. Apparently, the moms were targeted again but the veterans advanced. He line broke and my wife got cutoff and was surrounded and fired at from close range and striking her in the ribs.

This was bad but her real trauma came while she was on the ground before she got help. a fed pushed the end of their rifle up into her privates with force and told her to lie there and die. It took a while (she said it felt like hours) for someone to get to her through the smoke and feds so the canister just deployed on top of her.

She is ok but I worry for her safety as she is only more determined now. She also wanted to apologize to those following her photo share, she only got pictures and video from the peaceful protests prior to the violence. I said I think everyone will understand.

 

[Dragon]

I'm sorry to hear what happened to her but it just underscores the fact that those feds are out of control thugs.

She may seem to be ok and angry now but there will probably be a psycological reaktion at some point so be sure to be ready to listen and if necessary get her professional help! I'll be praying for both of you - you are both very brave

 

[CoolBrees]

Fortunately for her, she is a foster care social worker, with her Master’s in events based trauma. She is well aware of the trauma being wrought on all the protestors. Metal health wise, these Americans are going to suffer from PTSD similar to war

 

[Richard]

My wife got home last night early. About 1:30, before the fences were breached.

She was brought home by other WoMs as she was struck in the abdomen with a canister. It was either on top of her or directly next to her as she suffered from severe gas poisoning, and came home unable to walk and throwing up. I put her in the shower and sat in a cold showered with her on the floor convulsing and throwing up until about two hours ago.

She was sobbing uncontrollably. She finally was able to tell me what happened. Apparently, the moms were targeted again but the veterans advanced. He line broke and my wife got cutoff and was surrounded and fired at from close range and striking her in the ribs.

This was bad but her real trauma came while she was on the ground before she got help. a fed pushed the end of their rifle up into her privates with force and told her to lie there and die. It took a while (she said it felt like hours) for someone to get to her through the smoke and feds so the canister just deployed on top of her.

She is ok but I worry for her safety as she is only more determined now. She also wanted to apologize to those following her photo share, she only got pictures and video from the peaceful protests prior to the violence. I said I think everyone will understand.

So terribly sorry to hear of what happened to your wife. The actions of the federal agent were clearly wrong and I wish she had not gone through that.

Again, I don't read the daily happenings in Portland, so please forgive my ignorance when I ask a few questions. Is this still a black lives matter protest or has it morphed into something else? What do the protesters want that any of the local authorities can provide? It is nearly impossible to tell definitively from the pictures and short videos I have seen, but are protesters, including the moms, protesting on federal property? Are the protests peaceful until the federal agents or police decide to move into the crowd or is there provocative action taken prior to law enforcement moving in the direction of the crowd (such as items being thrown, Molotov cocktails)? Why are they protesting in the middle of the night? If you don't have time to educate me on these things, I understand, but I am curious about those things, especially from the perspective of someone who lives there and has participated in some of the protests.

 

[Maxp]

First let me say I'm horrified and angered over the treatment your wife and her compatriots are experiencing. Is there local media coverage of these protests? I haven't seen much if anything nationally. Why isn't there live video coverage nation wide?

 

[CoolBrees]

First to answer Richard- yes these are the BLM marches and demonstrations. We will not stop until the demands for systemic change to the way our city does business. Well that was the plan until the feds showed up and called everyone a terrorist. Now they are still the BLM protests. The Wall of Moms is now an actual activism group, with its entire structure run by mothers of color. This is about listening to what the Black community needs, not telling them. Until the Black community is served by the common good on the same playing field as white Americans this won’t stop. And it isn’t that hard really.
I have been so humbled because it really is as simple as shutting the eff up for a minute and really listening to what the speakers and leaders are saying. Off my box now.

Thanks all for the comments and thoughts. She is doing better and she says she knows which guy assaulted her. She is going to let him know what she thought about it. With a note about how her hurt her deeply and a sunflower from her garden. I really don’t deserve her. I wanted to find him and show him his own intestines.

I would just like to add again that my wife has a google photo share folder available for anyone who would like to be part of it.

I would especially encourage those who are skeptical or flat out against the protests to join. My wife is far from a journalist and I am the first to say this is one person’s account out of thousands and from one point of view. But maybe if you see how peaceful the protests are and later see military walking shoulder to shoulder down the street firing indiscriminately into clouds of tear gas while people are yelling for help. you might begin to understand why we are literally agreeing to be assaulted nightly until they leave and let us sit down and solve our problems together as a city and community. We don’t want or need their help. They are here to hurt people. Period.

I just ask one honest question - there has been graffiti, windows broken and water thrown. Is military occupation and daily riot dispersal the punishment for vandalism in America now?

I was down at the federal building an hour ago helping to deliver water and food. It was amazing and surreal at the same time during the day. So calm and peaceful. Like they would do during the Civil War, they would break and not fight for a minute - even play baseball against each other.

At the same time, It’s so weird looking at Americans as enemies. Being down there just now I felt that coming from all sides. Nobody trusting anyone, everyone is a potential plant. It’s crazy. Sorry I am rambling I guess but our lives are really upside down right now.

 

[Eeyore]

The story is getting around that these "Feds" are Blackwater mercenaries.

Privatized party police force. Another hallmark of Fascism.

I'm unable to listen right but, apparently, this is where the story began to spread.

 

[TraumaRN]

So terribly sorry to hear of what happened to your wife. The actions of the federal agent were clearly wrong and I wish she had not gone through that.

Again, I don't read the daily happenings in Portland, so please forgive my ignorance when I ask a few questions. Is this still a black lives matter protest or has it morphed into something else? What do the protesters want that any of the local authorities can provide? It is nearly impossible to tell definitively from the pictures and short videos I have seen, but are protesters, including the moms, protesting on federal property? Are the protests peaceful until the federal agents or police decide to move into the crowd or is there provocative action taken prior to law enforcement moving in the direction of the crowd (such as items being thrown, Molotov cocktails)? Why are they protesting in the middle of the night? If you don't have time to educate me on these things, I understand, but I am curious about those things, especially from the perspective of someone who lives there and has participated in some of the protests.

I suspect you are seen as the enemy unlikely to answer. I agree with much of what you posted. Also something else is going on there b/c they have a very small black population, and they have been having issues there long before Floyd. Antifa seems well rooted there.

The federal bldg: I get where you are coming from and I am torn. Do they stay there forever? They are in fact making it worse? But if they leave will it get burned to the ground? So far I have not heard what they want from the mayor in terms of better policing, has anyone? It seems ill conceived, not organized, which means it will likely not accomplish anything. I feel sorry for the officers, and for the protestors, no compassion for people who hurl objects at humans that could hurt them. How are you any better when you do that then the police you accuse of brutalizing you?

But let's not kid ourselves. Trump went in there to stir the pot, as a set up for a Nixon "law and order" presidency. He knew it would gin it up, and give him photo ops that made it look like the world was on fire to scare people. And the proof..the suburban housewives they are coming for you ad followed and Portland photos on Fox news every night.

Lori Lightfoot was smarter...ok I will take your 200 men and add that 1.7% to my 12,500 cops, but I am gonna get those statues cuz your real agenda is to start an issue. Getting those statues was smart! Chicago murders were never a priority until now. And it's bad. But don't buy that he cares about that dead black baby, or those extra hundred folks that have died in shootings this year in Chicago when he is allowing thousands of people to die of Covid no thought whatsoever, while telling them it is a "hoax". He never cared before and violence in Chicago is not new. Political theater.

 

[superchuck500]

Tom Nichols’s take on what’s going on (thread):

 

[The moose]

I suspect you are seen as the enemy unlikely to answer. I agree with much of what you posted. Also something else is going on there b/c they have a very small black population, and they have been having issues there long before Floyd. Antifa seems well rooted there.

The federal bldg: I get where you are coming from and I am torn. Do they stay there forever? They are in fact making it worse? But if they leave will it get burned to the ground? So far I have not heard what they want from the mayor in terms of better policing, has anyone? It seems ill conceived, not organized, which means it will likely not accomplish anything. I feel sorry for the officers, and for the protestors, no compassion for people who hurl objects at humans that could hurt them. How are you any better when you do that then the police you accuse of brutalizing you?

But let's not kid ourselves. Trump went in there to stir the pot, as a set up for a Nixon "law and order" presidency. He knew it would gin it up, and give him photo ops that made it look like the world was on fire to scare people. And the proof..the suburban housewives they are coming for you ad followed and Portland photos on Fox news every night.

Lori Lightfoot was smarter...ok I will take your 200 men and add that 1.7% to my 12,500 cops, but I am gonna get those statues cuz your real agenda is to start an issue. Getting those statues was smart! Chicago murders were never a priority until now. And it's bad. But don't buy that he cares about that dead black baby, or those extra hundred folks that have died in shootings this year in Chicago when he is allowing thousands of people to die of Covid no thought whatsoever, while telling them it is a "hoax". He never cared before and violence in Chicago is not new. Political theater.

I think it has much more to do with history. Oregon began as a whites-only state. Black people were not allowed. The last Oregon black exclusion law was repealed in 1926. They are so white because of that. If the last law was repealed in the twenties then how long before the culture changed if it ever really did for all the non transplant people in Oregon?

I think the trump administration is pushing that in Oregon because of that fact.

I really think this is being tried exactly where it could work.

 

[TraumaRN]

I think it has much more to do with history. Oregon began as a whites-only state. Black people were not allowed. The last Oregon black exclusion law was repealed in 1926. They are so white because of that. If the last law was repealed in the twenties then how long before the culture changed if it ever really did for all the non transplant people in Oregon?

I think the trump administration is pushing that in Oregon because of that fact.

I really think this is being tried exactly where it could work.

This is why I am so pleased to be here. You taught me something! Thanks I had no idea about the hx. of Oregon. It is one thing to be Iowa white, quite another to legislate whiteness. I would be so curious to pick the brains of the protestors. I want to understand even more now. I do believe he chose Oregon b/c it is white. Coming down on black folks would be politically inadvisable right now so this was a test as to how far he could go. Again, I also think he wanted pandemonium like "footage". May I ask where you live and your occupation? Always curious how people's view are influenced. You are welcome to decline to answer.

 

[The moose]

This is why I am so pleased to be here. You taught me something! Thanks I had no idea about the hx. of Oregon. It is one thing to be Iowa white, quite another to legislate whiteness. I would be so curious to pick the brains of the protestors. I want to understand even more now. I do believe he chose Oregon b/c it is white. Coming down on black folks would be politically inadvisable right now so this was a test as to how far he could go. Again, I also think he wanted pandemonium like "footage". May I ask where you live and your occupation? Always curious how people's view are influenced. You are welcome to decline to answer.

Not offended. Just a new Orleans blue collar guy. I have been to Oregon and Washington state more than few times beautiful part of the country.

The real reason I know it is that way is because my grandfather's friend easily the most racist person I ever met sold everything and retired to Bend Oregon about thirty five years ago or more.

I remember being at a crawfish boil and people asking why the fork he was moving there. This was in the mass white flight out of new Orleans days. He basically said that is why. I thought it was a bunch of bullshirt until I read it later in life.

Oregon was founded as a racist white utopia that is a fact.

I think the racist trump administration is just a bit hip to the white utopia past and that is why this is happening in that state.

 

[TraumaRN]

Not offended. Just a new Orleans blue collar guy. I have been to Oregon and Washington state more than few times beautiful part of the country.

The real reason I know it is that way is because my grandfather's friend easily the most racist person I ever met sold everything and retired to Bend Oregon about thirty five years ago or more.

I remember being at a crawfish boil and people asking why the fork he was moving there. This was in the mass white flight out of new Orleans days. He basically said that is why. I thought it was a bunch of bullshirt until I read it later in life.

Oregon was founded as a racist white utopia that is a fact.

I think the racist trump administration is just a bit hip to the white utopia past and that is why this is happening in that state.

Fascinating! I love people (most people), they teach you, and give you aha moments if you are open. I always wondered if anyone had tried to make an all white state. Crawfish, lol you are a LA boy.

Not offended. Just a new Orleans blue collar guy. I have been to Oregon and Washington state more than few times beautiful part of the country.

The real reason I know it is that way is because my grandfather's friend easily the most racist person I ever met sold everything and retired to Bend Oregon about thirty five years ago or more.

I remember being at a crawfish boil and people asking why the fork he was moving there. This was in the mass white flight out of new Orleans days. He basically said that is why. I thought it was a bunch of bullshirt until I read it later in life.

Oregon was founded as a racist white utopia that is a fact.

I think the racist trump administration is just a bit hip to the white utopia past and that is why this is happening in that state.

Crawfish, you are LA boy. My son used to love to cuddle with me and watch "duck dynasty" and giggle. He still likes to drink sweet tee like Uncle Si, lol.

Fascinating stuff. I am glad I quit my toxic board, I love to learn from people. Perspective is everything. I think in general if we cared to know about people more we would be much more tolerant even when we see things a bit differently. Or I am deluded, probably the latter.