Does Trump ever do any jail time? (1 Viewer)

[Optimus Prime]

Everything I've seen and heard says that the split second Donald Trump is no longer president there will be flood of charges waiting for him

And if he resigns and Pence pardons him there are a ton of state charges as an understudy waiting in the wings if the fed charges can't perform

What do you think the likelihood of there being a jail sentence?

In every movie and TV show I've ever seen, in every political thriller I've ever read about a criminal and corrupt president there is ALWAYS some version of;

"We can't do that to the country",

"A trial would tear the country apart",

"For the nation to heal we need to move on" etc.

Would life imitate art?

Even with the charges, even with the proof the charges are true will the powers that be decide, "we can't do that to the country"?

 

[superchuck500]

Here’s a link to her thread.

I just skimmed it and lol’d multiple times. Will go through it more thoroughly after kids to bed.

Btw, “motion for judicial oversight” isn’t a thing.

 

[MT15]

Good deal, chuck. I’ll look forward to your take. Here’s something I just saw, don’t know if this will come to pass or not:

 

[MT15]

Popehat weighs in too, there’s a short thread.

 

[FullMonte]

My personal favorite bit so far:
"Govermment leaks to favored media outlets have provided ever-changing, and inaccurate justifications'' for the politicized conduct of the FBI and Department of Justice(DOJ'')"

To my recollection, there have been very few leaks about the justifications for the search....but, on the other hand, Trump has provided ever-changing explanations for the existence of the materials in question.

 

[wardorican]

But I was lead to believe this whole situation was the SAME as Clinton's e-mail situation? Which she actually turned over, and asked the State Department to do a review of the e-mails from their side too. The ones where the staffers who worked for her, sent her classified information to her, but fragmented, so it wasn't clear to Clinton that it was classified info.

Hillary R. Clinton Part 01

vault.fbi.gov

 

[cuddlemonkey]

My personal favorite bit so far:
"Govermment leaks to favored media outlets have provided ever-changing, and inaccurate justifications'' for the politicized conduct of the FBI and Department of Justice(DOJ'')"

To my recollection, there have been very few leaks about the justifications for the search....but, on the other hand, Trump has provided ever-changing explanations for the existence of the materials in question.

Accuse the other side of doing what is actually done by you and your side. You can see it coming a mile away.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Accuse the other side of doing what is actually done by you and your side. You can see it coming a mile away.

Sounds very Putinish...

 

[superchuck500]

Popehat weighs in too, there’s a short thread.

Yeah, the motion itself is terribly presented - the motion practice in federal court is highly organized and this motion is the complete opposite. It is primarily asking for a Special Master to be appointed to ostensibly receive from DOJ all of the material it seized to then review it and determine whether any of it is privileged. It doesn't clearly ask for this - it doesn't even cite the federal civil procedural rule that allows special masters until very late in the motion. It also appears to intend to state 4th Amendment claims but doesn't give a basis for relief apart from the rule that allows the seized property to be returned.

The biggest thing that strikes me about this motion is that Trump appears to believe he is entitled to assert executive privilege. This is really poor strategy because (1) he's not president anymore and (2) if the documents are subject to executive privilege, that means that they are documents relating to his administration and should be sent to NARA under the PRA. There's no such thing as a personal document to which executive privilege also applies.

The thing is just a mess. That said, there are a couple of points in there that DOJ should likely respond to - and of course DOJ will oppose the Special Master as unwarranted and impractical given that any such master would have to have a top secret security clearance if the master is going to review top secret documents.

It will be interesting to see how much DOJ tips its hand as to the investigation. DOJ typically likes to hit procedure before substance, so I would expect the opposition to focus heavily on the deficiencies in this motion and the standards under the rules this motion (poorly) attempts to reference.

 

[MT15]

Wow

Trump Had More Than 300 Classified Documents at Mar-a-Lago (Published 2022)

The National Archives found more than 150 sensitive documents when it got a first batch of material from the former president in January, helping to explain the Justice Department’s urgent response.

www.nytimes.com

“In total, the government has recovered more than 300 documents with classified markings from Mr. Trump since he left office, the people said: that first batch of documents returned in January, another set provided by Mr. Trump’s aides to the Justice Department in June and the material seized by the F.B.I. in the search this month.”

“The club had surveillance footage going back 60 days for some areas of the property, stretching back to late April of this year.
While much of the footage showed hours of club employees walking through the busy corridor, some of it raised concerns for investigators, according to people familiar with the matter. It revealed people moving boxes in and out, and in some cases, appearing to change the containers some documents were held in. The footage also showed other parts of the property.”

 

[superchuck500]

Yeah, the motion itself is terribly presented - the motion practice in federal court is highly organized and this motion is the complete opposite. It is primarily asking for a Special Master to be appointed to ostensibly receive from DOJ all of the material it seized to then review it and determine whether any of it is privileged. It doesn't clearly ask for this - it doesn't even cite the federal civil procedural rule that allows special masters until very late in the motion. It also appears to intend to state 4th Amendment claims but doesn't give a basis for relief apart from the rule that allows the seized property to be returned.

The biggest thing that strikes me about this motion is that Trump appears to believe he is entitled to assert executive privilege. This is really poor strategy because (1) he's not president anymore and (2) if the documents are subject to executive privilege, that means that they are documents relating to his administration and should be sent to NARA under the PRA. There's no such thing as a personal document to which executive privilege also applies.

The thing is just a mess. That said, there are a couple of points in there that DOJ should likely respond to - and of course DOJ will oppose the Special Master as unwarranted and impractical given that any such master would have to have a top secret security clearance if the master is going to review top secret documents.

It will be interesting to see how much DOJ tips its hand as to the investigation. DOJ typically likes to hit procedure before substance, so I would expect the opposition to focus heavily on the deficiencies in this motion and the standards under the rules this motion (poorly) attempts to reference.

Another asinine thing is that this "motion" is filed as a new complaint - a new action - though it isn't presented as a complaint. I would think it would be filed in the same matter as the warrant, but I don't know - could be that Trump's lawyers are a clown show, or it could just be an usual posture.

 

[Optimus Prime]

An ally of former President Donald Trump triumphantly published a letter to Trump about his storage of government secrets at Mar-a-Lago on Monday.

John Solomon, a conservative journalist with links to Trump, highlighted the letter for showing the arms-length involvement of President Joe Biden in the investigation that later led to the raid at Trump's home.

But the document also revealed the previously-unknown scale of secret information contained in documents there, and how damaging officials thought it was to national security.

Legal experts were quick to say this was the more serious revelation, and that Solomon's publication of the letter backfired...........

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[MT15]

I like the way this guy puts it:

 

[bird]

Sooo…

A judge says that the raid was “unprecedented”. Since we haven’t had a criminal like Trump occupy the WH before, such circumstances would inevitably be without precedent. That doesn’t change a flocking thing.

 

[barbar]

Sooo…

A judge says that the raid was “unprecedented”. Since we haven’t had a criminal like Trump occupy the WH before, such circumstances would inevitably be without precedent. That doesn’t change a flocking thing.

It's also unprecedented for a former president to steal a bunch of highly classified docs and store them in his basement. Therefore the response to that crime is also gonna be unprecedented.

I'm with you. It changes nothing and is essentially meaningless drivel.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Ok, lethal minds...

Why would this motion go to a different judge than the one overseeing the initial warrant/affidavit/whatever unless it was an appeal?

Judge gives Trump until Friday to better explain why he wants a special master for Mar-a-Lago documents

A federal judge in Florida has given former President Donald Trump until Friday to refine the legal arguments in his request for a special master to oversee the review of evidence gathered in the Mar-a-Lago search.

www.cnn.com

 

[coldseat]

Ok, lethal minds...

Why would this motion go to a different judge than the one overseeing the initial warrant/affidavit/whatever unless it was an appeal?

Judge gives Trump until Friday to better explain why he wants a special master for Mar-a-Lago documents

A federal judge in Florida has given former President Donald Trump until Friday to refine the legal arguments in his request for a special master to oversee the review of evidence gathered in the Mar-a-Lago search.

www.cnn.com

Magistrate Judges are a couple of rungs below a District Judges, but they're both part of the Southern District of Florida. Magistrate Judges handle things like warrants and pre trail motions, while District Judges take more ponderous legal motions. Also, District Judges are presidential appointments, Magistrate Judges are not.

 

[efil4]

An ally of former President Donald Trump triumphantly published a letter to Trump about his storage of government secrets at Mar-a-Lago on Monday.

John Solomon, a conservative journalist with links to Trump, highlighted the letter for showing the arms-length involvement of President Joe Biden in the investigation that later led to the raid at Trump's home.

But the document also revealed the previously-unknown scale of secret information contained in documents there, and how damaging officials thought it was to national security.

Legal experts were quick to say this was the more serious revelation, and that Solomon's publication of the letter backfired...........

MSN

www.msn.com

So TS/SIC docs are numbered and monitored. So when folks ask why a Judge would sign off on warrant, the feds KNEW who last had and what they had.

Reading now over 700 classified docs.

Crazy.

 

[superchuck500]

Ok, lethal minds...

Why would this motion go to a different judge than the one overseeing the initial warrant/affidavit/whatever unless it was an appeal?

Judge gives Trump until Friday to better explain why he wants a special master for Mar-a-Lago documents

A federal judge in Florida has given former President Donald Trump until Friday to refine the legal arguments in his request for a special master to oversee the review of evidence gathered in the Mar-a-Lago search.

www.cnn.com

Because it's a complete disaster. They filed it as a new action (presumably because they thought that if they filed it at the Fort Pierce courthouse it would be assigned to a Trump-appointee because she's the only judge there). It's on the civil docket. They didn't notify the court of the related action (the search warrant). They didn't state a cause of action or name a defendant. They served the US Attorney by certified mail but they didn't have a summons issued.

It's genuinely one of the most steaming piles of garbage I have seen filed in federal court by a represented party. It makes no sense.