Does Trump ever do any jail time? (9 Viewers)

[Optimus Prime]

Everything I've seen and heard says that the split second Donald Trump is no longer president there will be flood of charges waiting for him

And if he resigns and Pence pardons him there are a ton of state charges as an understudy waiting in the wings if the fed charges can't perform

What do you think the likelihood of there being a jail sentence?

In every movie and TV show I've ever seen, in every political thriller I've ever read about a criminal and corrupt president there is ALWAYS some version of;

"We can't do that to the country",

"A trial would tear the country apart",

"For the nation to heal we need to move on" etc.

Would life imitate art?

Even with the charges, even with the proof the charges are true will the powers that be decide, "we can't do that to the country"?

 

[MT15]

Also: Trump is free to clear up what was taken any time he wants.

 

[MT15]

Lol, is this true? If so, it’s hilarious.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Lol, is this true? If so, it’s hilarious.

Further, let's not forget that the head of "Biden's FBI" was appointed by Trump.

 

[wardorican]

Rubio sure is a hack. Such a political opportunist who stands for almost nothing.

I love his comparisons about how the FBI raid is similar to dictatorships. One big difference little Marco.. those dictators think they're above the law. The US is strong, because no one is above the law, and eventually criminals get their just desserts. So, maybe it's a good thing Trump was raided, especially if they DID, in fact, recover classified documents.

Also love the lie about 87,000 IRS agents being part of the Dems new bill. It's 87,000 treasury workers, and mostly IT related for better infrastructure. Not even IRS workers. Lies, and the Lying liars that tell them...

 

[wardorican]

And the GOP leader of the Senate won’t rebuke his members who are saying crazy crap about a warrant they know nothing about. Such a weasel, like always. Another chance to stand up for the rule of law and he just cannot bring himself to do it.

I hate the guy, but honestly, that's the correct answer here. It's disrespectful of the victims of the flood to discuss other political crap.

He's still a leader in the party though, and he should be telling people to wait and see.

 

[wardorican]

I worked on a DoD superfund cleanup outside of Denver in the early 2000’s.

Not only was classified documents training required, everybody gets their files audited to ensure mistakes in forms were crossed out correctly and the field logbooks were copied daily for the file. Copy machines have counters on them and you aren’t allowed to throw away paper or shred it.

No external drives. shirt, you weren’t even allowed to save to your hard drive - only the server.

If we would have been caught taking home the sensitive material regarding the chemical weapons we eliminated and the quantities, I was basically assured prison as a traitor to America.

So in my experience with the DoD, yes they care very much about document security

Handling ITAR related information is similar. Not as strict, but you still don't screw around with it.

 

[superchuck500]

Here's what I think is going on here. Just a personal view and there are a couple of assumptions here that may not turn out to be right.

Trump removes a quantity of material from the White House that (a) he does not own and (b) is classified and contains national security information that he is not entitled to possess after he's no longer president. This has been known for some time now and there have been various complaints about it. We know that in June, a team from the FBI and DOJ went to Mar-a-Lago and looked at what was there.

I suspect that between June and now, the FBI Director and Attorney General determined that it is improper for Trump to have that material and they were going to get it back. I would like to think that they offered to let Trump return it and he declined, but I don't know that to be true.

I don't think there needs to be any charges here if the FBI was able to retrieve what they were after. Yes, it's a crime but Trump wasn't trying to sell or otherwise use the material (as far as we know, if he was, that's different). I think the FBI Director can simply say "Trump had important, classified material of national security interest that he was not legally authorized to have - and that he wrongfully removed from the White House. He refused to return the material so the FBI went to retrieve it."

Seems fairly tidy to me. I don't know if that's what's going on, but I think that all makes sense based on what we do know.

 

[wardorican]

Here's what I think is going on here. Just a personal view and there are a couple of assumptions here that may not turn out to be right.

Trump removes a quantity of material from the White House that (a) he does not own and (b) is classified and contains national security information that he is not entitled to possess after he's no longer president. This has been known for some time now and there have been various complaints about it. We know that in June, a team from the FBI and NSA went to Mar-a-Lago and looked at what was there.

I suspect that between June and now, the FBI Director and Attorney General determined that it is improper for Trump to have that material and they were going to get it back. I would like to think that they offered to let Trump return it and he declined, but I don't know that to be true.

I don't think there needs to be any charges here if the FBI was able to retrieve what they were after. Yes, it's a crime but Trump wasn't trying to sell or otherwise use the material (as far as we know, if he was, that's different). I think the FBI Director can simply say "Trump had important, classified material of national security interest that he was not legally authorized to have - and that he wrongfully removed from the White House. He refused to return the material so the FBI went to retrieve it."

Seems fairly tidy to me. I don't know if's that's what's going on, but I think that all makes sense based on what we do know.

He thought they'd let him just leave it (there), but they pulled up quick to retrieve it?

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Here's what I think is going on here. Just a personal view and there are a couple of assumptions here that may not turn out to be right.

Trump removes a quantity of material from the White House that (a) he does not own and (b) is classified and contains national security information that he is not entitled to possess after he's no longer president. This has been known for some time now and there have been various complaints about it. We know that in June, a team from the FBI and DOJ went to Mar-a-Lago and looked at what was there.

I suspect that between June and now, the FBI Director and Attorney General determined that it is improper for Trump to have that material and they were going to get it back. I would like to think that they offered to let Trump return it and he declined, but I don't know that to be true.

I don't think there needs to be any charges here if the FBI was able to retrieve what they were after. Yes, it's a crime but Trump wasn't trying to sell or otherwise use the material (as far as we know, if he was, that's different). I think the FBI Director can simply say "Trump had important, classified material of national security interest that he was not legally authorized to have - and that he wrongfully removed from the White House. He refused to return the material so the FBI went to retrieve it."

Seems fairly tidy to me. I don't know if that's what's going on, but I think that all makes sense based on what we do know.

It's my understanding that in order to get the search warrant from a judge there has to be a crime and the evidence of that crime is located where the search warrant is signed off on. No potential crime = no warrant. So, I wouldn't bet on "I don't think there needs to be any charges" if I understand what you're saying.

 

[CrowFlies]

im sure wondering if...the texts they got from Jones lawyer showing allllll the tweets calls jones
made, and to frumpy....i cant help but wonder if that there was enough reason to bust the swamp
and make sure they got whatever paper is left indicating similar comms with to and from frumpy.

the timing of it i find quite interesting. bannon frump were communicating along with jones.
its all in jones comms.
if this was determined after getting hold of jones comms then they had reason to bust the swamp
to protect sensitive Security data.

i dont think these are unrelated actions.

 

[superchuck500]

It's my understanding that in order to get the search warrant from a judge there has to be a crime and the evidence of that crime is located where the search warrant is signed off on. No potential crime = no warrant. So, I wouldn't bet on "I don't think there needs to be any charges" if I understand what you're saying.

That’s not completely accurate. A federal search warrant can be obtained for property “illegally possessed” as distinct from evidence of a crime. Obtaining a warrant doesn’t necessarily mean there will be charges - only that there is a basis for law enforcement to legally conduct the search. There remains prosecutorial discretion after the warrant.

Rule 41. Search and Seizure

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

That’s not completely accurate. A federal search warrant can be obtained for property “illegally possessed” as distinct from evidence of a crime. Obtaining a warrant doesn’t necessarily mean there will be charges - only that there is a basis for law enforcement to legally conduct the search. There remains prosecutorial discretion after the warrant.

Rule 41. Search and Seizure

www.law.cornell.edu

I can understand that there doesn't have to be charges brought but to go to this extent without the desire to charge seems kind of foolish to me.

As for "A federal search warrant can be obtained for property “illegally possessed” as distinct from evidence of a crime". If it's illegally possessed it's a crime, isn't it? No?

Of course I'm just guessing here I'm no lawyer, obviously.

 

[CrowFlies]

i also think frump was in NY cuz he knew this raid was looming.
he would have been cuffed and walked out of his swamp if hed been there.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Here's what I think is going on here. Just a personal view and there are a couple of assumptions here that may not turn out to be right.

Trump removes a quantity of material from the White House that (a) he does not own and (b) is classified and contains national security information that he is not entitled to possess after he's no longer president. This has been known for some time now and there have been various complaints about it. We know that in June, a team from the FBI and DOJ went to Mar-a-Lago and looked at what was there.

I suspect that between June and now, the FBI Director and Attorney General determined that it is improper for Trump to have that material and they were going to get it back. I would like to think that they offered to let Trump return it and he declined, but I don't know that to be true.

I don't think there needs to be any charges here if the FBI was able to retrieve what they were after. Yes, it's a crime but Trump wasn't trying to sell or otherwise use the material (as far as we know, if he was, that's different). I think the FBI Director can simply say "Trump had important, classified material of national security interest that he was not legally authorized to have - and that he wrongfully removed from the White House. He refused to return the material so the FBI went to retrieve it."

Seems fairly tidy to me. I don't know if that's what's going on, but I think that all makes sense based on what we do know.

Ah yes. Trump does something illegal, is told this thing is illegal. He's then asked to return what was illegally taken AND REFUSES. And so after using government resources within different branches of the government to get the illegally taken documents back, you're thinking no charges should be filed? For taking classified documents, then refusing to return them? Why? Because he's Trump? People have gone to jail for far less.

So much for no one's above the law with that suggestion.

 

[MT15]

I hate the guy, but honestly, that's the correct answer here. It's disrespectful of the victims of the flood to discuss other political crap.

He's still a leader in the party though, and he should be telling people to wait and see.

Later he followed the script and demanded that the FBI justify their search warrant.

 

[brandon]

That’s not completely accurate. A federal search warrant can be obtained for property “illegally possessed” as distinct from evidence of a crime. Obtaining a warrant doesn’t necessarily mean there will be charges - only that there is a basis for law enforcement to legally conduct the search. There remains prosecutorial discretion after the warrant.

Rule 41. Search and Seizure

www.law.cornell.edu

So why not just get a court order to turn over the documents? Why get a warrant to search?

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Here's what I think is going on here. Just a personal view and there are a couple of assumptions here that may not turn out to be right.

Trump removes a quantity of material from the White House that (a) he does not own and (b) is classified and contains national security information that he is not entitled to possess after he's no longer president. This has been known for some time now and there have been various complaints about it. We know that in June, a team from the FBI and DOJ went to Mar-a-Lago and looked at what was there.

I suspect that between June and now, the FBI Director and Attorney General determined that it is improper for Trump to have that material and they were going to get it back. I would like to think that they offered to let Trump return it and he declined, but I don't know that to be true.

I don't think there needs to be any charges here if the FBI was able to retrieve what they were after. Yes, it's a crime but Trump wasn't trying to sell or otherwise use the material (as far as we know, if he was, that's different). I think the FBI Director can simply say "Trump had important, classified material of national security interest that he was not legally authorized to have - and that he wrongfully removed from the White House. He refused to return the material so the FBI went to retrieve it."

Seems fairly tidy to me. I don't know if that's what's going on, but I think that all makes sense based on what we do know.

A lot changes if they found proof he was trying to destroy any said documents.

 

[MT15]

I hope the FBI and/or Garland doesn’t come out and make any statements justifying their warrant. That’s sort of what Comey did by talking about the Clinton investigation and it was wrong.

Trump has the warrant and he has a list of everything they took. He can release all of it, but of course he won’t do that because he’s basically a dishonest person.

Regular Republicans, though, who are dishonestly calling for the FBI or DOJ to justify their lawful actions are even worse than Trump. They know what it takes to get a warrant, they know Trump took classified documents about 18 months ago, and only reluctantly turned over some of the documents a few months ago. And was still dragging his feet on turning over the rest.

Worst of all are the hard right media and personalities. They are fomenting violence over a lawful execution of a legal search warrant. Oh, and Trump’s so-called lawyers who are on said media saying that the FBI probably planted evidence with nothing to back that up.