Does Trump ever do any jail time? (1 Viewer)

[Optimus Prime]

Everything I've seen and heard says that the split second Donald Trump is no longer president there will be flood of charges waiting for him

And if he resigns and Pence pardons him there are a ton of state charges as an understudy waiting in the wings if the fed charges can't perform

What do you think the likelihood of there being a jail sentence?

In every movie and TV show I've ever seen, in every political thriller I've ever read about a criminal and corrupt president there is ALWAYS some version of;

"We can't do that to the country",

"A trial would tear the country apart",

"For the nation to heal we need to move on" etc.

Would life imitate art?

Even with the charges, even with the proof the charges are true will the powers that be decide, "we can't do that to the country"?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

38 counts filed against Trump. Wow.

"It also shows that Trump was aware of the existence of the boxes and their contents, and would have Nauta bring him various boxes from time to time. It also lays out in plain detail a series of texts between two Trump employees and Nauta from November 2021 through January 2022 that make clear that the former president wanted to review boxes before some were returned to the National Archives.

After the feds subpoenaed him for their return, he allegedly told one of his attorneys, "I don't want anybody looking through my boxes."

"Wouldn't it be better if we just told them we didn't have anything here?" the lawyer quoted Trump as saying.

The filing says that in the days before the Justice Department came to recover documents pursuant to the subpoena, Nauta removed 64 boxes from the storage room and took them to Trump's residence in the club. He brought just 30 of the boxes back to the storage room before the feds arrived."

I mean... this is brazen.

 

[Optimus Prime]

38 counts filed against Trump. Wow.

what happened to the 7 that was reported yesterday?

 

[Booker]

what happened to the 7 that was reported yesterday?

There are 7 crimes he's accused of, but 38 counts altogether:

• 31 counts of willful retention of classified documents
• 1 count of conspiracy to obstruct justice
• 1 count of withholding a document or record
• 1 count of corruptly concealing a document or record
• 1 count of concealing a document in a federal investigation
• 1 count of scheme to conceal
• 1 count of making false statements and representations

 

[faceman]

I've wanted to fly a "hang the forker" flag for a while now with a silhouette of an already hanged Trump which would be easily identifiable because of the hair.

But I live in Pensacola, Florida, so probably ill advised to ever go through with it.

I'm with you 100%, but I wouldn't go this far. I knew threatening the POTUS whether you were joking or not
will get you a quick visit from men in black coats. I did some research and it appears your action would be
protected by your freedom of speech. I'm guessing it depends whether the SS thinks you are a threat or not.
I'm also not sure how these affect former Presidents.

Police: Hanging Trump effigy in Indiana protected by First Amendment

Regardless, the move could invite a visit from the Secret Service.

www.cbs17.com

 

[bdb13]

I'm with you 100%, but I wouldn't go this far. I knew threatening the POTUS whether you were joking or not
will get you a quick visit from men in black coats. I did some research and it appears your action would be
protected by your freedom of speech. I'm guessing it depends whether the SS thinks you are a threat or not.
I'm also not sure how these affect former Presidents.

Police: Hanging Trump effigy in Indiana protected by First Amendment

Regardless, the move could invite a visit from the Secret Service.

www.cbs17.com

Yeah, it would probably end with me as the forker who gets hanged lol.. wouldn't be worth all the bullshirt.

Flies high in my head though.

 

[Optimus Prime]

…..What possible penalties does Trump face?

The maximum punishment for each count of unlawful retention of national defense information is 10 years in prison.

Conspiracy to obstruct justice, tampering with grand jury evidence, and concealing evidence in a federal investigation all carry punishments of up to 20 years.

Each false statement charge is punishable by up to five years in prison.

If Trump was convicted on all charges, the sentences could run consecutively, amounting to hundreds of years in prison.

But federal defendants are rarely given the maximum possible punishment. He does not face any mandatory minimum sentences.


Sentences in unlawful retention cases vary widely, depending in part on how sensitive the material is, how much of it there is, how long the person held on to it and his or her cooperation with investigators.

A Defense Department employee in Manila who took home a small amount of secret-level information to work on a classified thesis project served only three months behind bars.

Kenneth Wayne Ford Jr., who was found guilty at trial of bringing home national defense information after leaving the National Security Agency and lying about the case, received a six-year sentence.

A former NSA contractor who over two decades amassed a huge trove of highly sensitive material, including hacking tools and details of overseas operations, was sentenced to nine years in prison.

A Navy sailor who took pictures of classified areas of a nuclear-powered submarine and then destroyed the evidence was sentenced to a year in prison for retention and obstruction; Trump later pardoned him.

Retired Gen. David H. Petraeus was given probation after pleading guilty to sharing classified information with his biographer.

At the time, the crime of mishandling classified information — as opposed to national defense information — was a misdemeanor with a maximum punishment of a year behind bars. It became a felony during Trump’s presidency…….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/06/09/trump-charges-classified-documents/

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I'm with you 100%, but I wouldn't go this far. I knew threatening the POTUS whether you were joking or not
will get you a quick visit from men in black coats. I did some research and it appears your action would be
protected by your freedom of speech. I'm guessing it depends whether the SS thinks you are a threat or not.
I'm also not sure how these affect former Presidents.

Police: Hanging Trump effigy in Indiana protected by First Amendment

Regardless, the move could invite a visit from the Secret Service.

www.cbs17.com

The State did a sketch on this nearly 30 years ago. Kids in history class, talking about the severity of it. Teacher says that you can't threaten the president, even as a joke. One kid says, "So I can't say hypothetically, uh... 'hey, I think I'm gonna kill the president'." And the secret service comes in and hauls him out. Happens three or four times in the sketch.

 

[DaveXA]

I'm with you 100%, but I wouldn't go this far. I knew threatening the POTUS whether you were joking or not
will get you a quick visit from men in black coats. I did some research and it appears your action would be
protected by your freedom of speech. I'm guessing it depends whether the SS thinks you are a threat or not.
I'm also not sure how these affect former Presidents.

Police: Hanging Trump effigy in Indiana protected by First Amendment

Regardless, the move could invite a visit from the Secret Service.

www.cbs17.com

It's technically protected yes, but if the SS thinks you're serious and a legitimate threat, they will do their thing whether it's a sitting or former President. It's been a minute since I last read on it, but I believe they use the same criteria in terms of threat assessment for both current and former Presidents.

 

[zztop]

There are 7 crimes he's accused of, but 38 counts altogether:

• 31 counts of willful retention of classified documents
• 1 count of conspiracy to obstruct justice
• 1 count of withholding a document or record
• 1 count of corruptly concealing a document or record
• 1 count of concealing a document in a federal investigation
• 1 count of scheme to conceal
• 1 count of making false statements and representations

anyone remember a time when misspelling the word potato would destroy your chance at being elected president

 

[DaveXA]

anyone remember a time when misspelling the word potato would destroy your chance at being elected president

Vice President Dan Quayle

 

[MT15]

Here is Trump apparently advocating for invasion of Venezuela.

 

[Optimus Prime]

The performative anger from prominent Republicans over Donald Trump’s federal felony indictment is full of sound and fury — signifying nothing. None of the arguments against prosecuting the former president makes a bit of sense.


Trump’s defenders are following the advice given to rookie trial lawyers: If the facts are against you, pound the law. If the law is against you, pound the facts. And if both are against you, pound the table. Personally, I wonder if some Republicans are going to hurt themselves pummeling the furniture.

They can’t argue that special counsel Jack Smith is bringing charges against Trump that the Justice Department doesn’t routinely bring against other defendants.

Earlier this month, in a federal courtroom in Tampa, a former Air Force intelligence officer named Robert Birchum was sentenced to three years in prison for unlawfully retaining more than 300 classified documents, which he kept in his home and in a storage pod in his driveway.

As with the documents Trump allegedly kept in a gilded ballroom and a chandeliered bathroom at Mar-a-Lago, the papers Birchum illegally hoarded were found during an FBI search.

One difference is that Birchum — a retired lieutenant colonel who took responsibility for his actions and pleaded guilty — is a decorated special forces veteran who was in the Pentagon when it was attacked on Sept. 11, 2001. Trump, you may recall, had bone spurs.

The main complaint from Republicans actually seems to be that Trump is not being given special treatment — that his alleged offenses, all 37 counts, are not enough to justify turning a former president into a criminal defendant……

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/06/12/trump-indictment-criticism-flawed-logic/

 

[Optimus Prime]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The FBI investigators who searched Harold Martin’s Maryland property in the fall of 2016 found classified documents — including material at the top secret level — strewn about his home, car and storage shed.

Unlike former President Donald Trump, the former National Security Agency contractor didn’t contest the allegations, ultimately pleading guilty in 2019 and admitting his actions were “wrong, illegal and highly questionable.” But his expressions of contrition and guilty plea to a single count of willful retention of national defense information didn’t spare him the harsh punishment of nine years in prison.

The resolution of that case looms as an ominous guidepost for the legal jeopardy Trump could face as he confronts 37 felony counts — 31 under the same century-old Espionage Act statute used to prosecute Martin and other defendants alleged to have illegally retained classified documents. Even many like Martin who have pleaded guilty and accepted responsibility have nonetheless been socked with yearslong prison sentences.

“When they decide to pursue a willful mishandling case, it’s to send a message: that we take these cases very seriously,” said Michael Zweiback, a defense lawyer and former Justice Department prosecutor. “They almost always are seeking jail time.”


How much prison time the former president could face in the event of a conviction is impossible to say, with such a decision ultimately up to the trial judge — in this case, a Trump appointee who has already demonstrated a willingness to rule in his favor. It’s also hard to know the extent to which other factors — including the logistical and political complications of jailing a former president — might play a role.


The Espionage Act offense is punishable by up to 10 years in prison, though it’s rare for first-time federal offenders to get close to the maximum. But beyond the retention, prosecutors have also identified multiple aggravating factors in Trump’s alleged conduct, accusing him of seeking to enlist others — including a lawyer and aides — to hide the records from investigators and showing off some to visitors. Some of the other counts in the indictment, including conspiracy to obstruct justice, call for up to 20 years in prison.

Justice Department prosecutors in recent years have used the Espionage Act provision against a variety of defendants, including a West Virginia woman who retained an NSA document related to a foreign government’s military and political issues. Elizabeth Jo Shirley pleaded guilty in 2020 to a willful retention count and was sentenced to eight years in prison.……

How much prison time could Trump face? Past cases brought steep punishment for document hoarders

The outcome of past cases against defendants accused of hoarding classified documents looms as an ominous guidepost for the legal jeopardy Donald Trump could face.

apnews.com

 

[Snarky Sack]

If Trump went to jail, either being the GOP frontrunner, having won the nomination, or having won the presidency, many Trump supporters would conclude that the United States is no longer a republic. Therefore, they would reason, why follow the rules of the Republic.

I doubt that he could be convicted before the 2024 general election, and if he swears in for his second term, he will pardon himself loudly as soon as he has finished to oath of office.

So the danger would be that they would contrive some reason to jail him pre-trial. Another possibility is that he win the election, and they decide to bring him in before the inauguration. Either of those were to happen, the phrase "all bets are off" comes to mind.

But that is a wild hypothetical. They will not take Trump on the perp walk, however satisfying that might be to many.

 

[LA - L.A.]

If Trump went to jail, either being the GOP frontrunner, having won the nomination, or having won the presidency, many Trump supporters would conclude that the United States is no longer a republic. Therefore, they would reason, why follow the rules of the Republic.

My response to them is we do not give in to terroristic demands and should you chose to break the law, simply because you do not like the outcome of a criminal trial, we will deal with you in the same fashion that we deal with all people who break the law.

Case in point, the ongoing convictions and imprisonments of many of those who participated in the failed insurgency on January, 6th 2021.

 

[MT15]

If Trump went to jail, either being the GOP frontrunner, having won the nomination, or having won the presidency, many Trump supporters would conclude that the United States is no longer a republic. Therefore, they would reason, why follow the rules of the Republic.

I doubt that he could be convicted before the 2024 general election, and if he swears in for his second term, he will pardon himself loudly as soon as he has finished to oath of office.

So the danger would be that they would contrive some reason to jail him pre-trial. Another possibility is that he win the election, and they decide to bring him in before the inauguration. Either of those were to happen, the phrase "all bets are off" comes to mind.

But that is a wild hypothetical. They will not take Trump on the perp walk, however satisfying that might be to many.

If Trump is convicted, it will be because a jury unanimously found that he committed those crimes he is accused of committing. Being the “frontrunner” or the nominee means nothing. Unless you want to allow a front runner or nominee to be above the law and have the right to commit crimes.

 

[DaveXA]

If Trump is convicted, it will be because a jury unanimously found that he committed those crimes he is accused of committing. Being the “frontrunner” or the nominee means nothing. Unless you want to allow a front runner or nominee to be above the law and have the right to commit crimes.

He just thinks Trump is above the law and what he did is no big deal. The rest of his excuses revolves around that.

 

[Snarky Sack]

what happened to the 7 that was reported yesterday?

I'm not the only one who noticed that, huh? When the reports said "7" I thought, 'well, at least they DOJ isn't doing that idiotic thing that New York guy did of separating the same supposed crime into fifty crimes to run up the count. They earned a point of respect, and blew it immediately.