Do you believe being Cis-gendered is a form of privilege? (1 Viewer)

[Intensesaint]

Just curious what people think.

I personally do not see there being any kind of special privilege to being comfortable in your own skin.

 

[Dadsdream]

Do you believe that the government should prevent an employer from firing an employee if one of the reasons is talking about what they believe about trans pronouns at work or on social media?

Subjects in UK don't have First Amendment protections.
Were this an American case, I don't believe an employer should fire somebody for personal pronoun usage, and the government has an obligation to enforce the First Amendment protections.
What do you think?

 

[dtc]

In the UK, courts have ruled people can be fired from their jobs for stating their belief in two biological sexes.

Maya Forstater, 45, did not have her contract renewed after posting a series of tweets questioning government plans to let people declare their own gender.
Ms Forstater believes trans women holding certificates that recognise their transgender identity cannot describe themselves as women.
Ms Forstater had argued "framing the question of transgender inclusion as an argument that male people should be allowed into women's spaces discounts women's rights to privacy and is fundamentally illiberal (it is like forcing Jewish people to eat pork)".

Judge: "It is a core component of her belief that she will refer to a person by the sex she considered appropriate even if it violates their dignity and/or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment."
"The approach is not worthy of respect in a democratic society."

Maya Forstater: Woman loses tribunal over transgender tweets

Maya Forstater lost her job after she questioned government plans to let people declare their own gender.

www.bbc.com

The article says her contract was not renewed. Your summary says the court rules she can be fired.

Which is it?

 

[samiam5211]

Subjects in UK don't have First Amendment protections.
Were this an American case, I don't believe an employer should fire somebody for personal pronoun usage, and the government has an obligation to enforce the First Amendment protections.
What do you think?

The first amendment only restricts the government. A private employer can’t violate an employees first amendment rights, and the government can’t do anything to stop the employer without violating their first amendment rights.

You said in the UK that the courts ruled you could be fired for being insensitive trans people.

The same is true here in the US. How we get there isn’t really relevant to the question.

It seemed you were expressing some contempt for the situation in the UK. Do you feel the same about our situation?

 

[Dadsdream]

The article says her contract was not renewed. Your summary says the court rules she can be fired.

Which is it?

Her contract was not renewed. The court ruled that was OK and scolded her. Call it whatever you like.

 

[Dadsdream]

The first amendment only restricts the government. A private employer can’t violate an employees first amendment rights, and the government can’t do anything to stop the employer without violating their first amendment rights.

You said in the UK that the courts ruled you could be fired for being insensitive trans people.

The same is true here in the US. How we get there isn’t really relevant to the question.

It seemed you were expressing some contempt for the situation in the UK. Do you feel the same about our situation?

My contempt was for the scolding manner of the court.
Our situation?
In the 1990s, I got called out by a recent graduate of the Clinton-authorized school for Equal Opportunity and Sexual Harassment representatives.
My transgression? In a class about U.S. Army platoon tactics, I had repeatedly used the personal pronoun "he" each time I used the word "commander," per my lesson guide and the field manuals of the day.
At the time, there were no female Infantry commanders, in fact women were excluded from Infantry command by law.
Nevertheless, the newly-minted E.O. rep threatened to report me for inappropriate pronoun use, even after I pointed out that I was directly quoting the manuals and my lesson plan.
Political correctness crusaders during the Clinton administration were real jerks.
Now, here we are 20 years later and this summer a woman was given command of an Infantry division in the California National Guard. . . and I've been retired for 19 years.
We've evolved. I would hope there's not people running around threatening other people's careers over pronouns anymore.

Army announces first woman to lead an infantry division

Brig. Gen. Laura Yeager, who flew Black Hawk helicopters in Iraq, is one of a few women generals serving in the California National Guard.

www.armytimes.com

 

[samiam5211]

My contempt was for the scolding manner of the court.
Our situation?
In the 1990s, I got called out by a recent graduate of the Clinton-authorized school for Equal Opportunity and Sexual Harassment representatives.
My transgression? In a class about U.S. Army platoon tactics, I had repeatedly used the personal pronoun "he" each time I used the word "commander," per my lesson guide and the field manuals of the day.
At the time, there were no female Infantry commanders, in fact women were excluded from Infantry command by law.
Nevertheless, the newly-minted E.O. rep threatened to report me for inappropriate pronoun use, even after I pointed out that I was directly quoting the manuals and my lesson plan.
Political correctness crusaders during the Clinton administration were real jerks.
Now, here we are 20 years later and this summer a woman was given command of an Infantry division in the California National Guard. . . and I've been retired for 19 years.
We've evolved. I would hope there's not people running around threatening other people's careers over pronouns anymore.

Army announces first woman to lead an infantry division

Brig. Gen. Laura Yeager, who flew Black Hawk helicopters in Iraq, is one of a few women generals serving in the California National Guard.

www.armytimes.com

Sorry, I didn’t realize your personal Viet Nam involved being held captive by the PC police.

That Joe Burrow is pretty good at football.

 

[Dadsdream]

Sorry, I didn’t realize your personal Viet Nam involved being held captive by the PC police.

That Joe Burrow is pretty good at football.

Oh, that's nothing.

There was also a soldier from Texas who reported me for failure to take action on a racial matter.
She had demanded I see to the removal of all the "Registered Coonazz" bumper stickers, even the ones off post, because she deemed it racially offensive to African Americans.

Then, there was the soldier who demanded that we should pull over on our way from the airport in order to pull down all the David Duke For Governor signs. My boss informed the soldier that we would go to jail under Louisiana law for tampering with election signs. The soldier said maybe we should, if we allowed the Duke signs to stay up.

Yes, the PC police felt "empowered" in the 1990s.

 

[samiam5211]

Oh, that's nothing.

There was also a soldier from Texas who reported me for failure to take action on a racial matter.
She had demanded I see to the removal of all the "Registered Coonazz" bumper stickers, even the ones off post, because she deemed it racially offensive to African Americans.

Then, there was the soldier who demanded that we should pull over on our way from the airport in order to pull down all the David Duke For Governor signs. My boss informed the soldier that we would go to jail under Louisiana law for tampering with election signs. The soldier said maybe we should, if we allowed the Duke signs to stay up.

Yes, the PC police felt "empowered" in the 1990s.

Do you believe that the soldier felt genuine offense to your bumper sticker? Not that you thought it was valid, but did she really feel it?

A soldier getting excited over seeing some Klan for governor signs isn’t really a sign of the PC police.

 

[Dadsdream]

Do you believe that the soldier felt genuine offense to your bumper sticker? Not that you thought it was valid, but did she really feel it?

A soldier getting excited over seeing some Klan for governor signs isn’t really a sign of the PC police.

It wasn't my bumper sticker. I was her instructor so she filed an E.O. complaint through me to have all such "Registered Coonazz" bumper stickers removed from all vehicles. She was totally ignorant of what the bumper sticker actually meant.

No. She had been coached to be offended. She was yet another E.O. school graduate, empowered to seek out, find and report people who didn't follow E.O. policy.

The soldier who demanded that we take down the the Duke for Governor signs did so under the auspices of an E.O. complaint as well.

Under Reagan and Bush, I taught six hours of instruction on Soviet Threat Doctrine.
Under Clinton, that was changed to five hours of Equal Opportunity and Sexual Harassment and an hour of The President's Policy on Homosexual Conduct in the Military.

Political correctness was deliberately instituted to enact social change as part of the curriculum as directed by the Commander-in-Chief.

That included correcting anybody who used pronouns incorrectly or who reacted badly to being corrected.

Eventually, it also meant that we had to post a change to all the manuals that said:

Combat Communications Within the Division

books.google.com

Yes, we actually had to staple a page into every Army manual and regulation.

 

[Intensesaint]

Proctor & Gamble is removing female symbols from the packaging of its feminine hygiene products because . . .

“LGBTQ activists and allies have been publicly asking P&G [Procter & Gamble] to redesign the packaging to be more gender-neutral. They argued that using the female symbol is exclusive because not all women menstruate, and not all people who menstruate identify as women.”

Always is removing the female symbol from its packaging to be more inclusive

Advocates said removing the symbol may relieve some of the dysphoria felt by transgender and non-binary people during menstruation

www.cbsnews.com

So, who exactly asked Proctor & Gamble to remove the female symbol from its packaging?

The name is Ben Saunders, the UK Stonewall's 2019 Young Campaigner of the Year.

Ben Saunders (@bensaunders44) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from Ben Saunders (@bensaunders44). Stonewall Young Campaigner of the Year🌈 LCR Young Person 2019 | Activist | Filmmaker | Instagram @ben_saunders_film Inquiries: bensaunders434@gmail.com. North West, England

twitter.com

P&G now with more wokeness.

 

[samiam5211]

It wasn't my bumper sticker. I was her instructor so she filed an E.O. complaint through me to have all such "Registered Coonazz" bumper stickers removed from all vehicles. She was totally ignorant of what the bumper sticker actually meant.

No. She had been coached to be offended. She was yet another E.O. school graduate, empowered to seek out, find and report people who didn't follow E.O. policy.

The soldier who demanded that we take down the the Duke for Governor signs did so under the auspices of an E.O. complaint as well.

Under Reagan and Bush, I taught six hours of instruction on Soviet Threat Doctrine.
Under Clinton, that was changed to five hours of Equal Opportunity and Sexual Harassment and an hour of The President's Policy on Homosexual Conduct in the Military.

Political correctness was deliberately instituted to enact social change as part of the curriculum as directed by the Commander-in-Chief.

That included correcting anybody who used pronouns incorrectly or who reacted badly to being corrected.

Eventually, it also meant that we had to post a change to all the manuals that said:

Combat Communications Within the Division

books.google.com

Yes, we actually had to staple a page into every Army manual and regulation.

Yea, and integration was government doctrine used to enact social change.

Government is a tool that we use all the time to enact social change. We do it all the time. Get over it.

You just happen to not like this particular change, so you pretend it’s some sort of authoritarian overreach.

 

[Intensesaint]

Yea, and integration was government doctrine used to enact social change.

Government is a tool that we use all the time to enact social change. We do it all the time. Get over it.

You just happen to not like this particular change, so you pretend it’s some sort of authoritarian overreach.

Get over it, such a wonderful way to debate.

Also, why on earth should be enact any kind of social change for such a tiny portion of the population.

The pearl clutching over being upset over pronoun use is quite silly.

All about who can be more woke.

 

[Dadsdream]

Yea, and integration was government doctrine used to enact social change.

Government is a tool that we use all the time to enact social change. We do it all the time. Get over it.

You just happen to not like this particular change, so you pretend it’s some sort of authoritarian overreach.

It was an authoritarian overreach. Still is.
People losing their jobs over which pronoun they use? That's Orwellian.

FWIW - Who wants to be the person to go tell the Cajuns in central Louisiana that they have to scrape the "Registered Coonazz" bumper stickers off of their pickup trucks because an African American woman from Texas is offended? Not me!

 

[samiam5211]

Get over it, such a wonderful way to debate.

Also, why on earth should be enact any kind of social change for such a tiny portion of the population.

The pearl clutching over being upset over pronoun use is quite silly.

All about who can be more woke.

Sorry, I was quoting Mick Mulvaney. Thought it was obvious.

There is too much pearl clutching on both sides.

 

[dtc]

Her contract was not renewed. The court ruled that was OK and scolded her. Call it whatever you like.

You said fired. She wasn't.

If it were up to me, I'd prefer the truth rather than some misleading and inflammatory hyperbole.

Given your journalistic background, I'd have assumed you would agree.

 

[MT15]

Get over it, such a wonderful way to debate.

Also, why on earth should be enact any kind of social change for such a tiny portion of the population.

The pearl clutching over being upset over pronoun use is quite silly.

All about who can be more woke.

what social change are we talking about here?

and how many people do there have to be that are affected by discrimination before you think they are worthy of consideration?

to me, using a pronoun that somebody prefers costs me absolutely nothing, and if it makes them feel more like they belong in society or more like a “real” person, I’m happy to do it. Seems like the decent thing to do.

why does it rankle you so much?

ETA: I should make clear, I do appreciate the honesty of your post. At least you are willing to forthrightly discuss the issue.

 

[MT15]

I don't use the product.
I was the one with 4 daughters and a wife who had to keep the correct brand names, sizes and types straight in my head for those middle-of-the-day and middle-of-the night emergencies, playing the knight in shining armor to the rescue.
Harmful? No.
Stupid and ridiculous? Yes.

I can’t even address this, talk about stupid and ridiculous. Yes, this is all about you, DD.

 

[Dadsdream]

You said fired. She wasn't.

If it were up to me, I'd prefer the truth rather than some misleading and inflammatory hyperbole.

Given your journalistic background, I'd have assumed you would agree.

She entered the ranks of the unemployed because she expressed her belief there are two genders.

The Thought Police have become a manifest reality.
Newspeak standards are effectual.