Critical race theory (11 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Frankly, I'm completely ignorant when it comes to the Critical Race Theory curriculum. What is it, where does it come from, and is it legitimate? Has anyone here read it and maybe give a quick summary?

If this has been covered in another thread, then I missed it.

 

[brandon]

OK, let's stay in Latin America.

In the major leagues there is a very high disproportionately number of baseball players from the Dominican Republic. The numbers are much higher than expected. It turns out that Dominicans have baseball fever. Baseball is a passion in the DR. By the same token Argentinians are passionate about soccer rather than baseball. I have never seen an Argentinian baseball player. I know they must exist, but i have never seen one.

BTW, baseball is also huge in Cuba. However, they do not have the same freedom to come to America when compared to the Dominicans.

Great! So we’ve identified some cultural reasons why some teams might be more successful as it relates to baseball. So now let’s do the same thing with your original statement, which was regarding poverty.

The reasons for poverty in all groups are the same. However some groups are more successful than others.

Which cultural idiosyncrasies lead one ethnicity to be in poverty while another is more financially successful?

 

[Paul]

Great! So we’ve identified some cultural reasons why some teams might be more successful as it relates to baseball. So now let’s do the same thing with your original statement, which was regarding poverty.

Which cultural idiosyncrasies lead one ethnicity to be in poverty while another is more financially successful?

Let's stay in Latin America which I know best. I have known Cubans all my life. Many were entrepreneurial and unlike immigrants from other poor nations they had skills and education (first wave in the 1960s). They did quite well.

 

[coldseat]

Let's stay in Latin America which I know best. I have known Cubans all my life. Many were entrepreneurial and unlike immigrants from other poor nations they had skills and education (first wave in the 1960s). They did quite well.

Your perceptions may need some adjustment. Cubans are on the lower end of Latin American Median income in the United States and basically equal to Mexicans. Mexicans being by far the largest percentage of Latin Americans in the US and I'm sure one of the immigrant groups that you consider lacking in skills and education.

Racial Wealth Snapshot: Latino Americans | Prosperity Now

EDITOR'S NOTE: This is the fourth of a series of snapshots from Prosperity Now's Racial Wealth Divide Initiative providing key data on racial wealth disparities in America.

prosperitynow.org

 

[MT15]

Perception doesn’t equal reality, which is why it’s really important to check the facts.

 

[SFIDC3]

I don't think it's necessarily growing as much as it's been somewhat under the surface for a lot of folks. Once Trump tapped into that, they started coming out the woodwork much more. Of course that might vary depending on location, but overall, I'm not so sure that the increased numbers are due to anything other than people were already mostly like that until Trump made it easier for it to be out in the open.

I wholeheartedly disagree….the number is growing a lot of folk who had tendencies are now full blown nationalists, I agree due mostly to the last administration.

Yes, there is a resurgence of white nationalism, particularly among non-educated redneck types. Perhaps, they wish all non-white people were dirt poor. However, I cannot understand that perspective in anyone.When I go out I do not particularly enjoy seeing poor people that are in dire straits. I feel much better when people around me are happy and thriving. So I am assuming these white people would want the same. What is the point of living in a community with so many poor disenfranchised people? Do they want this because they’re evil? I Give people the benefit of the doubt. I suspect that they are simply threatened by the resurgence of a different philosophy in America. I could be wrong, but I’m not looking at this from a Tribal perspective. If we continue on this path we Will end in a Civil War

People who are threatened by something that they shouldn’t be are dangerous people…they don’t just want people of color to be gone, they want them out of the country or worse. I think that is a very salient point you are missing. And when an inordinate amount of people with this mindset are in law enforcement and or the military (have military training) they are a danger, I think we are seeing that unfold on a daily basis….

I too want everyone to be thriving and happy no matter where they came from or what they look like…but to assume that all white people want that is both ignorant and dangerous, to properly deal with threats and the risks associated with them, you have to identify them first….ugh….

 

[Paul]

Your perceptions may need some adjustment. Cubans are on the lower end of Latin American Median income in the United States and basically equal to Mexicans. Mexicans being by far the largest percentage of Latin Americans in the US and I'm sure one of the immigrant groups that you consider lacking in skills and education.

Racial Wealth Snapshot: Latino Americans | Prosperity Now

EDITOR'S NOTE: This is the fourth of a series of snapshots from Prosperity Now's Racial Wealth Divide Initiative providing key data on racial wealth disparities in America.

prosperitynow.org

Yes, you are correct. I only saw economic success among the early first Cuban exiles. The professional rich Cuban educated class was over represented in that group. The other refugee waves that followed were not at that level (For example the Mariel Boats refugees). BTW, many of first Cubans exiles also went to other Latin nations and Spain. The following waves of refugees did not fare as well as they had less education and training.

EARLY CUBAN REFUGEES IN MIAMI WERE MODEL OF SUCCESS

EARLY CUBAN REFUGEES IN MIAMI WERE MODEL OF SUCCESS

Cubans fleeing Fidel Castro’s Communist regime washed into South Florida in three major waves. The first wave of refugees began fleeing Cuba immediately after Castro’s forces drove Pres…

www.sun-sentinel.com

The above graph illustrates the point I was trying to make. Economic success among Latins is variable according to the nation of origin. I don't know why the level of income is different, but I suspect culture has something to do with that.

I bet that if you google immigrants from Asia, Europe, and Africa you would also see different income levels according to nation of origin.

Thanks for the info

 

[DaveXA]

I wholeheartedly disagree….the number is growing a lot of folk who had tendencies are now full blown nationalists, I agree due mostly to the last administration.



People who are threatened by something that they shouldn’t be are dangerous people…they don’t just want people of color to be gone, they want them out of the country or worse. I think that is a very salient point you are missing. And when an inordinate amount of people with this mindset are in law enforcement and or the military (have military training) they are a danger, I think we are seeing that unfold on a daily basis….

I too want everyone to be thriving and happy no matter where they came from or what they look like…but to assume that all white people want that is both ignorant and dangerous, to properly deal with threats and the risks associated with them, you have to identify them first….ugh….

That's precisely what I was referring to. The people with the tendencies were already out there. It was a matter of Trump tapping into that. I guess it's a matter of degree in that those tendencies was a short hop to full-blown nationalism.

 

[nolaspe]

Meanwhile, Texas going full Texas...

 

[MT15]

Yes, you are correct. I only saw economic success among the early first Cuban exiles. The professional rich Cuban educated class was over represented in that group. The other refugee waves that followed were not at that level (For example the Mariel Boats refugees). BTW, many of first Cubans exiles also went to other Latin nations and Spain. The following waves of refugees did not fare as well as they had less education and training.

EARLY CUBAN REFUGEES IN MIAMI WERE MODEL OF SUCCESS

EARLY CUBAN REFUGEES IN MIAMI WERE MODEL OF SUCCESS

Cubans fleeing Fidel Castro’s Communist regime washed into South Florida in three major waves. The first wave of refugees began fleeing Cuba immediately after Castro’s forces drove Pres…

www.sun-sentinel.com

The above graph illustrates the point I was trying to make. Economic success among Latins is variable according to the nation of origin. I don't know why the level of income is different, but I suspect culture has something to do with that.

I bet that if you google immigrants from Asia, Europe, and Africa you would also see different income levels according to nation of origin.

Thanks for the info

By your own statement, the first wave of Cubans were highly educated and from more prosperous families. So to me, their success had nothing to do with being Cuban, nor with Cuban culture, but rather their own socioeconomic status in Cuba.

You seem to be ascribing their success somehow to their Cuban identity, which is where we are all diverging.

 

[samiam5211]

By your own statement, the first wave of Cubans were highly educated and from more prosperous families. So to me, their success had nothing to do with being Cuban, nor with Cuban culture, but rather their own socioeconomic status in Cuba.

You seem to be ascribing their success somehow to their Cuban identity, which is where we are all diverging.

It's the American dream. Anyone with wealth and business connections in the US, can become wealthy here, no matter what country you come from.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Meanwhile, Texas going full Texas...

"Class, open your textbooks to Chapter 9 - "KKK: Do they have a point?"

 

[Saintamaniac]

I went back and read my post. I don’t know why it says white community. I dictated the post using my iPhone and perhaps it typed the wrong words.

I meant to say that I have never met a white person that wants anyone else to be permanently poor.

You are either lying or you think that the rest of the folks here are as easily manipulated as the trump cult members. I haven't seen a dictation app mess up a dictation that bad since the first dictation software on Windows 98.

You obviously want to demonize me. So be it!

No one is trying to demonize you. Your own words are doing that job all by themselves.

As for tribalism: Those that are acting in a tribal manner probably do not realize they are tribal. Does a fish know he is in the water 24/7?

Are fish human? Can they be compared to humans in any meaningful way.....because that is what you are doing and it is not helping your point.

 

[Paul]

By your own statement, the first wave of Cubans were highly educated and from more prosperous families. So to me, their success had nothing to do with being Cuban, nor with Cuban culture, but rather their own socioeconomic status in Cuba.

You seem to be ascribing their success somehow to their Cuban identity, which is where we are all diverging.

I have said at nauseam that success may be related to culture and not necessarily nationality. Yes, the graph is what it is, but there is more to the story.

It is best to judge people as individuals and not as members of a group (or nationality). The statistics describe the group, but at the individual level the story may be quite different. An individual from Honduras may earn much more than a Bolivian despite the average of both groups.

 

[Saintamaniac]

I have said at nauseam that success may be related to culture and not necessarily nationality. Yes, the graph is what it is, but there is more to the story.

It is best to judge people as individuals and not as members of a group (or nationality). The statistics describe the group, but at the individual level the story may be quite different. An individual from Honduras may earn much more than a Bolivian despite the average of both groups.

You are cornered now by your own previous statements and yet you persist. At this point you are simply talking out of both sides of your arse.

 

[First Time Poster]

I have said at nauseam that success may be related to culture and not necessarily nationality. Yes, the graph is what it is, but there is more to the story.

So, Paul, culture substituted for nationality isn't making it any better. You haven't stated "what" about certain cultures makes them predisposed to be less successful. It's a statement you need to qualify. You seem to be saying that someone's culture makes them more lazy than others. That's why you are being pushed on this. You can't just make a statement like that and walk away from it. If you misspoke, say you misspoke. But, if you are gonna stand by it, qualify it. One, which cultures are hard working and which ones are lazy? Two, what makes them that way?

 

[Paul]

So, Paul, culture substituted for nationality isn't making it any better. You haven't stated "what" about certain cultures makes them predisposed to be less successful. It's a statement you need to qualify. You seem to be saying that someone's culture makes them more lazy than others. That's why you are being pushed on this. You can't just make a statement like that and walk away from it. If you misspoke, say you misspoke. But, if you are gonna stand by it, qualify it. One, which cultures are hard working and which ones are lazy? Two, what makes them that way?

This is what I said in post #373 above.

"It is best to judge people as individuals and not as members of a group (or nationality). The statistics describe the group, but at the individual level the story may be quite different. An individual from Honduras may earn much more than a Bolivian despite the average of both groups."

This is what I now say in this post:

There are cultural differences among nationalities. There------- I said it again. What is wrong about that?

 

[brandon]

This is what I said in post #373 above.

"It is best to judge people as individuals and not as members of a group (or nationality). The statistics describe the group, but at the individual level the story may be quite different. An individual from Honduras may earn much more than a Bolivian despite the average of both groups."

This is what I now say in this post:

There are cultural differences among nationalities. There------- I said it again. What is wrong about that?

No one disagrees that there are cultural differences among nationalities, or that individual cases don't necessarily reflect the success of a group at large.

The hangup is that you have said that there are cultural differences between various ethnicities that cause one ethnicity to be successful where another may not be as successful. But you refuse to say which cultural traits would lead to this difference in success.

Here are some possible options that could be more important than culture, including:

1) Wealth vs. poverty in home country
2) Reason for leaving home country (forced vs. by choice)
3) Means of leaving the home country
4) Opportunities available in the specific location chosen in America
5) Ability vs. inability to transfer skills/credentials from home country

So these are some specific reasons that aren't related to culture that could absolutely influence the financial success of immigrants in a new country. I have supported my claim with evidence. Now you need to provide support for your claim that culture could be the reason. Provide examples of cultural differences that could lead to the success or failure of one ethnicity vs. another.

 

[Optimus Prime]

There are cultural differences among nationalities. There------- I said it again. What is wrong about that?

You refuse to elaborate. You're the one who brought it up

You mentioned Cubans are entrepreneurial

What else? How would you describe the other 'cultural differences among nationalities"?

And this:

"It is best to judge people as individuals and not as members of a group (or nationality). The statistics describe the group, but at the individual level the story may be quite different. An individual from Honduras may earn much more than a Bolivian despite the average of both groups."

That's describing outliers, which there always are

This statement (I'm sure it's just an example) says to me that "The statistics say that on average Bolivians earn much more than Hondurans, but it's certainly possible for a Honduran to earn much more than the average Bolivian"

So since you know Latin America so well, and one of the things you know is that there are definite "cultural differences among nationalities" and since you've said there's nothing wrong with those differences let's have it

What are the cultural differences between Latin American countries?

What's the cultural difference between Peru, El Salvador and Columbia?