Civil War 2? (1 Viewer)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Very sobering article
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    If you know people still in denial about the crisis of American democracy, kindly remove their heads from the sand long enough to receive this message: A startling new finding by one of the nation’s top authorities on foreign civil wars says we are on the cusp of our own.

    Barbara F. Walter, a political science professorat the University of California at San Diego, serves on a CIA advisory panel called the Political Instability Task Force that monitors countries around the world and predicts which of them are most at risk of deteriorating into violence.

    By law, the task force can’t assess what’s happening within the United States, but Walter, a longtime friend who has spent her career studying conflicts in Syria, Lebanon, Northern Ireland, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, Rwanda, Angola, Nicaragua and elsewhere, applied the predictive techniques herself to this country.

    Her bottom line: “We are closer to civil war than any of us would like to believe.” She lays out the argument in detail in her must-read book, “How Civil Wars Start,” out in January. “No one wants to believe that their beloved democracy is in decline, or headed toward war,” she writes.

    But, “if you were an analyst in a foreign country looking at events in America — the same way you’d look at events in Ukraine or the Ivory Coast or Venezuela — you would go down a checklist, assessing each of the conditions that make civil war likely.

    And what you would find is that the United States, a democracy founded more than two centuries ago, has entered very dangerous territory.”

    Indeed, the United States has already gone through what the CIA identifies as the first two phases of insurgency — the “pre-insurgency” and “incipient conflict” phases — and only time will tell whether the final phase, “open insurgency,” began with the sacking of the Capitol by Donald Trump supporters on Jan. 6.

    Things deteriorated so dramatically under Trump, in fact, that the United States no longer technically qualifies as a democracy. Citing the Center for Systemic Peace’s “Polity” data set — the one the CIA task force has found to be most helpful in predicting instability and violence — Walter writes that the United States is now an “anocracy,” somewhere between a democracy and an autocratic state.

    U.S. democracy had received the Polity index’s top score of 10, or close to it, for much of its history. But in the five years of the Trump era, it tumbled precipitously into the anocracy zone; by the end of his presidency, the U.S. score had fallen to a 5, making the country a partial democracy for the first time since 1800.

    “We are no longer the world’s oldest continuous democracy,” Walter writes. “That honor is now held by Switzerland, followed by New Zealand, and then Canada. We are no longer a peer to nations like Canada, Costa Rica, and Japan, which are all rated a +10 on the Polity index.”…….

    Others have reached similar findings. The Stockholm-based International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance put the United States on a list of “backsliding democracies” in a report last month.

    “The United States, the bastion of global democracy, fell victim to authoritarian tendencies itself," the report said.

    And a new survey by the academic consortium Bright Line Watch found that 17 percent of those who identify strongly as Republicans support the use of violence to restore Trump to power, and 39 percent favor doing everything possible to prevent Democrats from governing effectively……



     
    Do it.

    The US as a whole will be so much better off.

    Democrat Presidents and Senate for the next century.

    C'mon, ya chicken Lone Stars...bawk, bkawwk! I dare you.

    I'm all for it (but not really, there are some decent folks in TX as well), any state that has a governor like Abbott is made up of folks that don't understand what a democracy is anyways.....the irony (if you can call it that) is in a few years after "leaving" former state TX refugees would be flooding their neighboring states as the infrastructure crumbles in the face of more severe "nature"......
     
    Texas would have the 8th largest economy, which is where Italy currently stands. Of course, that would be crushed the second all of those F500 companies leave and they are made responsible for everything the feds have to do. Oh, and their taxes skyrocket. And their new money has uncontrolled inflation the moment it is ratified. And you're kicked off the national power grid and gas pipeline.

    Oh and also have no nuclear silos in their wasteland or nuclear subs in their harbors.

    Their national guard has 19,000. Italy has over 340k.

    In other words, they are defenseless. And maybe Mexico realizes this too, and wants their land back. Their army is over 340k too. Heck, there are cartels bigger than 19k.

    Do it.
     
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    Texas would have the 8th largest economy, which is where Italy currently stands. Of course, that would be crushed the second all of those F500 companies leave and they are made responsible for everything the feds have to do. Oh, and their taxes skyrocket. And their new money has uncontrolled inflation the moment it is ratified. And you're kicked off the national power grid and gas pipeline.

    Oh and also have no nuclear silos in their wasteland or nuclear subs in their harbors.

    Their national guard has 19,000. Italy has over 340k.

    In other words, they are defenseless. And maybe Mexico realizes this too, and wants their land back. Their army is over 340k too. Heck, there are cartels bigger than 19k.

    Do it.
    Mainland U.S. wouldn't let the cartels or anyone else take Texas. They'd be like a landlocked Philippines. Floundering and hapless economically but God help anyone who tries to invade.
     
    Like having female only spaces? What about allowing men to dominate female sports? Do those count as moral convictions, because I don't see that from the other side. Do you? What about the murder of babies in the womb? See how we can go round and round? You and the others are on the wrong side of history on all of these. That is why there will be a national divorce with the federal government slowing being ignored.
    No matter how’d you like to spin it, moral conviction does not apply to lieing, cheating, stealing, dishonesty, misleading, manipulation, and undermining the rule of reasonable law. But that’s the rub isn’t it? To the MAGA side losing, not getting their way, is the sum basis of every moral position they pretend to take. It defines their morality.
     
    Do it.

    The US as a whole will be so much better off.

    Democrat Presidents and Senate for the next century.

    C'mon, ya chicken Lone Stars...bawk, bkawwk! I dare you.
    HELL I’m livng in the wrong state… I blame my wife for that. It’s a long story.😝 But Texans would be in for a real shock if they lost Federal support, and all of a sudden I guarantee they’d be feeling insecure in the world’s big picture of countries. Most of the dummies around here don’t know that Texas begged to join the Union after beating Santa Anna because they knew they were vulnerable.
     
    Back in 2018, when I was working on my book The Next Civil War, I remember speaking to an FBI agent who had been undercover for many years with the far right.

    By then I had done my own time with extremists from both sides, and I had a question: The right was responsible for over half of all political murders in the United States, and the left for somewhere around 4 per cent.

    How could he explain the difference? Why was one side so much more violently effective than the other?

    He knew right away. The left blows itself up before it can blow anyone else up, he told me. The right, even on its insane fringes, can muster basic solidarity and order.

    As the 2024 election heats up, that undercover agent’s truth seems freshly valid to me. It feels like the right has already organised a path to autocracy. The left, which loudly claims to be defending US democracy, is in shambles.

    The causes of the potential collapse of the American republic have been well established since 2008 at least. Countries collapse, not because of single events, but because of deep systemic failures, and the United States exhibits many of the most toxic systemic failures: negative partisanship drives its political system and, increasingly, its legal system; income inequality is at levels the country has not seen since its founding; faith in institutions of all kinds – Congress, the media, religious institutions, the courts – is in steep decline.

    Meanwhile its archaic election system, the electoral college, simply does not reflect, in a meaningful way, the popular will. Fewer and fewer people in the United States believe in their political system – and those who do believe in it less and less.

    All of these realities were true enough when I published The Next Civil War two years ago, but they were in the background. You had to look to find them. When I was creating the scenarios that frame the chapters, the date I used as a shorthand was 2040, not anywhere close to 2024.

    But countries in collapse are what experts call “complex cascading systems”, with different factors feeding off each other. The models I used have held up to a degree I find astonishing. But the process they describe seems to be accelerating so much faster than I ever imagined………



     
    He knew right away. The left blows itself up before it can blow anyone else up, he told me. The right, even on its insane fringes, can muster basic solidarity and order.
    I think we are seeing this play out in real time, sadly.
     
    Ohio State Sen. George Lang (R-Butler) on Monday warned if Republicans lose the 2024 presidential election, “it’s going to take a civil war to save the country — and it will be saved.”

    Lang was speaking at a rally in Middletown, OH, where Donald Trump’s running mate Sen. JD Vance (R-OH) is “set to hold a hometown rally” and “his first solo appearance” since securing the Republican vice presidential nomination last week, NPR’s Stephen Fowler reports.

    According to Fowler, Lang “kick[ed] things off” at the rally by warning of violence if Democrats win the presidential election.

    "I believe wholeheartedly Donald Trump and Butler County's JD Vance are the last chance to save our country,” Lang said. “Politically, I'm afraid if we lose this one, it's going to take a civil war to save the country — and it will be saved.”.............


     
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    Ohio State Sen. George Lang (R-Butler) on Monday warned if Republicans lose the 2024 presidential election, “it’s going to take a civil war to save the country — and it will be saved.”

    Lang was speaking at a rally in Middletown, OH, where Donald Trump’s running mate Sen. JD Vance (R-OH) is “set to hold a hometown rally” and “his first solo appearance” since securing the Republican vice presidential nomination last week, NPR’s Stephen Fowler reports.

    According to Fowler, Lang “kick[ed] things off” at the rally by warning of violence if Democrats win the presidential election.

    "I believe wholeheartedly Donald Trump and Butler County's JD Vance are the last chance to save our country,” Lang said. “Politically, I'm afraid if we lose this one, it's going to take a civil war to save the country — and it will be saved.”.............

    So much for turning down the rhetoric, eh.
     
    What do you think the plan is if (when) Trump wins? Will Cali and the west coast look to leave the union like the rumor of 2020? Riots?
    Sadly, a national divorce is very very likely.
     
    ...Will Cali and the west coast look to leave the union like the rumor of 2020?
    Don't worry, it's never going to happen. The groups, that have pushed for California to leave the union and/or to split into smaller states, were all funded by Russian oligarchs and the Russian government. Almost every person in CA wants to stay in the union and remain one state.

    Sadly, a national divorce is very very likely.
    Only if Trump loses. No politician has said there'd be a civil war or national divorce if Trump were to win. Those things are only being sad by Republicans about what will happen if Trump loses.
     
    The US would crumble ecomincally without the west coast.

    The US would have no access to the Pacific Ocean, lose almost half of the tax base and a massive portion of the food production

    In other words, you need us a hell of a lot more than we need you.

    But no nobody is really trying to secede. It is not going to happen and nobody is talking about it.

    They'd never let us go anyways. The south depends on us for their government checks too much.

    So us west coasters will continue to pay your bills since you have no ability to do it yourself.
     
    Ohio State Sen. George Lang (R-Butler) on Monday warned if Republicans lose the 2024 presidential election, “it’s going to take a civil war to save the country — and it will be saved.”

    Lang was speaking at a rally in Middletown, OH, where Donald Trump’s running mate Sen. JD Vance (R-OH) is “set to hold a hometown rally” and “his first solo appearance” since securing the Republican vice presidential nomination last week, NPR’s Stephen Fowler reports.

    According to Fowler, Lang “kick[ed] things off” at the rally by warning of violence if Democrats win the presidential election.

    "I believe wholeheartedly Donald Trump and Butler County's JD Vance are the last chance to save our country,” Lang said. “Politically, I'm afraid if we lose this one, it's going to take a civil war to save the country — and it will be saved.”.............





     

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