Buffalo gunman kills 10, motivated by white-genocide rhetoric (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

BUFFALO, N.Y. (WIVB) – The U.S. Justice Department is investigating Saturday’s mass shooting at a Buffalo supermarket as a hate crime and an act of racially motivated violent extremism.

The gunman was identified during his arraignment as Payton S. Gendron of Conklin, New York. That name that matches the name given in a 180-page manifesto that surfaced online shortly after the attack and took credit for the violence in the name of white supremacy.

Buffalo mass shooter’s alleged manifesto leaves no doubt attack was white supremacist terrorism

“Greatly anti-Semitic, greatly racist against people of color, white supremacist, radicalized in all the ways we can think of.”

www.wivb.com

 

[MT15]

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

"Replacement theory, espoused by the suspect in the Buffalo massacre, has been embraced by some right-wing politicians and commentators."

The right needs to replace their theories.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Fact check: AR-15 style rifles used in 11 mass shootings since 2012

Of 12 shootings listed, including the Sandy Hook, Pulse, Las Vegas, and Boulder shootings, 11 used AR-15 style rifles. But a post is missing context.

www.usatoday.com

They, mass killers, just love the AR15. I can't let this thread come and go without mentioning it and what I think should be done. Ban all new sales of the firearm. That is they shouldn't be allowed to be sold commercially. That is the very least we can do.

 

[samiam5211]

Anyone who cares that white people are being replaced is a bad person.

It doesn't matter that it isn't true, if that is something you are concerned about, you are a bad person.

 

[superchuck500]

They, mass killers, just love the AR15. I can't let this thread come and go without mentioning it and what I think should be done. Ban all new sales of the firearm. That is they shouldn't be allowed to be sold commercially. That is the very least we can do.

You're right but even if a federal AWB was passed, I don't know if it would hold up - the one we had a couple of decades ago was before Heller and McDonald and some ambiguities remained about key elements of the Second Amendment. Plus, with the SCOTUS we have now, I doubt it would pass review.

But here the shooter (1) had a history with threats and (2) was 18. Even if you take the position that the Second Amendment means what the Court has said it means (and that's not an erroneous position) there are still other ways to regulate guns in the hands of unsafe people. The gun lobby shamefully continues to insist that any regulation is a slippery slope to gun control but that's clearly wrong - the US has only shifted away from gun control over the past quarter century. There are things that can be done that do not violate 2A and can at least try to reduce these kinds of events.

 

[zztop]

I posted it here

Now is not the time to talk about gun control

T&P https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/active-shooter-reported-grocery-store-colorado-boulder-police/story%3Fid%3D76614488

madaboutpolitics.com

but I'll post it in this topic too

 

[SystemShock]

They, mass killers, just love the AR15. I can't let this thread come and go without mentioning it and what I think should be done. Ban all new sales of the firearm. That is they shouldn't be allowed to be sold commercially. That is the very least we can do.

They may be used more than others because they are cheap and you can assemble them like legos, but there are other rifles out there.

 

[coldseat]

To those who watch Fox News and/or consume right wing media, when will it be enough? When will you acknowledge that right wing media and Christian nationalism is more corrosive and destructive to our country as anything Islamic Extremist (or Hillary Clinton/Antifa/Liberals) have ever done? When will you acknowledge that the glorifications of violence and an extreme gun culture mixed with racist propaganda is tearing us apart and killing us? When will you take responsibility for what your are consuming, promoting and the damage that it's doing, and stop making it financially rewarding for media companies to continue to destroy our society? When will you stop electing politicians that feed on and promote these divisions and carnage in our society? It really is up to YOU. Since we are a divided country, we will never get anything done to address this violence until you acknowledge it, change your habits (i.e. stop watching) and promotion of it, and vote accordingly.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

You're right but even if a federal AWB was passed, I don't know if it would hold up - the one we had a couple of decades ago was before Heller and McDonald and some ambiguities remained about key elements of the Second Amendment. Plus, with the SCOTUS we have now, I doubt it would pass review.

But here the shooter (1) had a history with threats and (2) was 18. Even if you take the position that the Second Amendment means what the Court has said it means (and that's not an erroneous position) there are still other ways to regulate guns in the hands of unsafe people. The gun lobby shamefully continues to insist that any regulation is a slippery slope to gun control but that's clearly wrong - the US has only shifted away from gun control over the past quarter century. There are things that can be done that do not violate 2A and can at least try to reduce these kinds of events.

You may very well be right. I don't know enough about how to write a firearms law so that it doesn't violate the 2A. What I do know is that weapon, having used one in combat, and it's my opinion that it doesn't belong in the hands of civilians. People say the weapon used by the military is different because it can be switched to fully automatic. True, but most of the time soldiers carry and use their M4 on semi-auto. That being true an AR15 is exactly what our soldiers use most of the time.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

They may be used more than others because they are cheap and you can assemble them like legos, but there are other rifles out there.

Yes, there are other rifles out there but they seem to like the AR15. I have an M1A for example which is the civilian version of the M14. You don't see them using those and I suspect that's because it's too much weapon. Too heavy, the ammunition is heavier, they're not familiar with it, etc.

 

[SystemShock]

Yes, there are other rifles out there but they seem to like the AR15. I have an M1A for example which is the civilian version of the M14. You don't see them using those and I suspect that's because it's too much weapon. Too heavy, the ammunition is heavier, they're not familiar with it, etc.

I'm referring to rifles like ACRs, SCARs, MCXs, AUGs, etc... not old clunkers from WWII.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I'm referring to rifles like ACRs, SCARs, MCXs, AUGs, etc... not old clunkers from WWII.

A) The M14/M1A isn't from WWII and you find a lot of SEALS and Delta guys carrying them, M14, now on different occasions. For example, if you watched Black Hawk Down you noticed that the guys from Delta were carrying M14s. I doubt that was made up for the movie.

B) When they, mass killers, start using SCARs let me know.

C) The question is do you think they should stop selling the AR15 commercially? Not can they, should they?

 

[SystemShock]

A) The M14/M1A isn't from WWII and you find a lot of SEALS and Delta guys carrying them, M14, now on different occasions. For example, if you watched Black Hawk Down you noticed that the guys from Delta were carrying M14s. I doubt that was made up for the movie.

B) When they, mass killers, start using SCARs let me know.

C) The question is do you think they should stop selling the AR15 commercially? Not can they, should they?

For whatever reason, my mind went to the M1 Garand... so I'll restate, clonkers from Viet Nam. I don't think of movies as documentaries. As far as I know (I may be wrong) the U.S. Army has not issued M14's to U.S. troops going into combat since the early 1970's, after the M16 became the standard service rifle in the late 1960's. Given the nature of the Navy SEALs' operations, I seriously doubt any of them would choose to log around an M14.

If there weren't ARs around, you may see other rifles. I think that the AR-type is a preferred weapon because ARs are the standard issue weapons of U.S. troops:The M16, the M4 (and all of the variants) they are all based on the original ArmaLite design.

Stopping the sale of AR clones is not going to prevent people from obtaining other rifles that perform just as good if not better than AR clones.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I think it all has it roots in the religious right.

If God is on your side who is on the other guys side?

You can't compromise, and the other side becomes your enemy.

It also excuses using immoral, illegal, and unethitical tactics. You are being "as wise as a serpent". It's the same logic used about Trump. "I know he hasn't always been a morale man, but he is an instrument of God so that makes him righteous."

This shows up in polling. Here is a WAPO article about this from a year ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/02/10/most-republicans-see-democrats-not-political-opponents-enemies/

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Given the nature of the Navy SEALs' operations, I seriously doubt any of them would choose to log around an M14.

Both the SEALS and Special Forces keep M14s in their armories and use them while not consistently not infrequently either.

M14 | Navy SEALs

The M14 is a magazine-fed, gas-operated semi-automatic 7.62mm (.30-caliber) rifle still used by the Navy SEALs. It deploys a 20-round magazine, and has an

navyseals.com

Stopping the sale of AR clones is not going to prevent people from obtaining other rifles that perform just as good if not better than AR clones.

Again, when they start using SCARS let me know.

 

[SystemShock]

Both the SEALS and Special Forces keep M14s in their armories and use them while not consistently not infrequently either.

I guess the ones who still use them have a death wish... those are shirtty rifles.
Also, .com?

Again, when they start using SCARS let me know.

As soon as ARs are off the market.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

As soon as ARs are off the market.

Let's take the ARs off the market and find out.

 

[SystemShock]

Let's take the ARs off the market and find out.

What do you think is so special about ARs? Why do you think taking ARs specifically off the market will do?

I personally think ARs are popular in the U.S. because AR types are standard U.S. Armed Forces issues. If you take away the ARs, there are still plenty of rifles that can do the exact same thing that ARs can. I'd venture to say, if ARs are completely off the market, there will be a run on AK types (because of price) and 3D printers.