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MT15

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How about gouging a police officer’s eyes so hard he loses an eye? Is that violent? Or injuring another police officer so badly he loses a finger? Violent, or no? Tasing a downed officer so often he suffers a heart attack, and shouting to “shoot him with his own gun”? Signify violence maybe?

Or did this just “need to happen”?
 
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Farb

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Do you think chanting "Hang Mike Pence" is nonviolent?
Yes, that is by definition nonviolent. They are words and please don't use the 'fire in a theater' thing. Words are not violence.

Simple fact to determine if this was an 'unarmed insurrection' is to look at the ones they are charging and for what crimes. Not a whole lot of big boy charges, besides obstruction of congress or something or other.
 
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Farb

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How about gouging a police officer’s eyes so hard he loses an eye? Is that violent? Or injuring another police officer so badly he loses a finger? Violent, or no? Tasing a downed officer so often he suffers a heart attack, and shouting to “shoot him with his own gun”? Signify violence maybe?

Or did this just “need to happen”?
Yeah, people get hurt in riots. Did anyone die? They did, an unarmed woman who was an immediate threat to a heroic officer. How do we know he was heroic, he told us 15 times in a 10 minute interview. Does that mean all the other offices that were there that did not shoot this trained unarmed ninja assassin were cowards because they didn't open fire to save our beloved congress?

What about David Dorn? He was shot in the neck and his killer is still free I think, are we too worried about that or do we only care about cops when it fits our narrative? We both the know the answer.
 

MT15

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There were several police officers so disturbed by what they went through that they killed themselves and one that died the next day after collapsing immediately after the insurrection.

And yes, that officer was a hero and the woman he shot was acting in a terroristic manner. She was warned, a couple of times, she was told there was a gun, and she made the decision to still try to breach the barrier. She was a soldier, she knew what would happen. She may have been the victim of some weapons grade psy-ops, but she was nevertheless a real threat to the still present members of Congress. I do believe he did what he had to do in that moment. If she had been allowed to come through there were scores of people right behind her. You never allow that first person to come through.

The far right radicals trying to turn her into a martyr is one of the most disturbing things about this whole dangerous episode. I hope you are no longer in that number, once upon a time I believe you indicated you were inclined to think that way.
 

MT15

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As for caring about cops only when it fits the narrative, I don’t think you have any room to talk.

I do care about cops, someone in my family that I love dearly is a police officer. I can see when police officers are acting badly, and we saw a lot of that this summer during the BLM protests. I’m not talking about the looting, I’m talking about targeting peaceful protestors and press. Looking the other way when the PB or some other hate group is terrorizing people and then turning around and firing rubber bullets at people for just standing there.
 
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There were several police officers so disturbed by what they went through that they killed themselves and one that died the next day after collapsing immediately after the insurrection.

And yes, that officer was a hero and the woman he shot was acting in a terroristic manner. She was warned, a couple of times, she was told there was a gun, and she made the decision to still try to breach the barrier. She was a soldier, she knew what would happen. She may have been the victim of some weapons grade psy-ops, but she was nevertheless a real threat to the still present members of Congress. I do believe he did what he had to do in that moment. If she had been allowed to come through there were scores of people right behind her. You never allow that first person to come through.

The far right radicals trying to turn her into a martyr is one of the most disturbing things about this whole dangerous episode. I hope you are no longer in that number, once upon a time I believe you indicated you were inclined to think that way.
That officer died by a stroke and do we know the officers committed suicide because of the riots? Remember when the media, and everyone on here followed along that he was beat to death by a fire extinguisher? Do you think any cops were traumatized by the summer of love riots?

If this middle aged, woman was threat to armed officers, why didn't the armed officers directly behind her and the other officers that were with this 'hero' cop not shoot as well and why was he the only one to fire his weapon during the entire 'siege' or 'insurrection'? Probably the same reason police didn't open fire on the George Floyd riots.

Also, I heard and did not research but didn't they capitol police ask for more officers for that day, but that request was denied?
 
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As for caring about cops only when it fits the narrative, I don’t think you have any room to talk.

I do care about cops, someone in my family that I love dearly is a police officer. I can see when police officers are acting badly, and we saw a lot of that this summer during the BLM protests. I’m not talking about the looting, I’m talking about targeting peaceful protestors and press. Looking the other way when the PB or some other hate group is terrorizing people and then turning around and firing rubber bullets at people for just standing there.
Your not talking about the BLM riots, just the PB riots? LOL. I don't recall the PB marching and burning for Floyd in cities all across the country.
 

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To date we've seen no evidence it was professionally organized outside of a few yahoos on the web running their mouths, so yes I'd call the riot itself grassroots (although the rally portion wasn't).

I wouldn't. You don't have that insurrection without the month long build up by Trump, the right wing media and Q. it's not grass roots and its roots were intentionally fake allegations about the election being stolen from Trump for the purposes for fomenting a coup.
 

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I wouldn't. You don't have that insurrection without the month long build up by Trump, the right wing media and Q. it's not grass roots and its roots were intentionally fake allegations about the election being stolen from Trump for the purposes for fomenting a coup.

I guess to some degree it gets into a discussion of what is grassroots? By definition, it's organizing at the local level to effect actions at higher levels. It doesn't really matter what inspires the action, but where the action was organized. From my view of events, there wasn't a national organization that organized the riot portion of the Jan. 6 riots. Yes, they were inspired by Trump and right-wing media, but they basically all "showed up" then got worked into a frenzy.

So I don't think anything you say is wrong. I agree with it all, but from my interpretation of grassroots, a movement at the grassroots level can be inspired at almost any level of government (see: Party, Tea).
 

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Your not talking about the BLM riots, just the PB riots? LOL. I don't recall the PB marching and burning for Floyd in cities all across the country.
Sigh, your hyperbole is just tiring. No. Cities all across the country did not burn this summer. Not even close. You’ve said that lie before, I don’t know if you believe the lie, or just repeat the lie because you want to score “points” for your side and don’t care.

The PB have on occasion been allowed to riot by some local police departments with them looking the other way. It’s well documented. But peaceful protestors were subjected to tear gas and rubber bullets. The police should have arrested the PB who attacked others just the same as the police arrested the people on the other side who turned to violence.

In at least one occasion I saw police officers slashing tires of cars that were legally parked in a parking lot. I saw police illegally target press, in a few cases hitting them with rubber bullets. One time in particular the cop aimed directly at a reporter, who identified himself and he fired anyway. I watched them shove an 80-some year old man so hard he had a brain bleed and ended up in intensive care. I saw a police officer club a man who was just riding by on a bicycle not hurting anything.

If you have information about police officers killing themselves after this summer, I‘d like to see it. I’m open to it, but generally the police were handing out the punishment not on the receiving end like January 6. That makes a huge difference to your overall mental state I would think. To me it’s fairly obvious that the police on Jan 6 were traumatized by brutality far beyond what they could even imagine. It’s reasonable to think this traumatic event contributed to high rate of suicides immediately after and up to a few months later.
 

MT15

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Okay, back to the thread topic, sorry for derailment.

Looks like Biden is taking out the trash, lol.

 

MT15

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Oh, Sean Spicer got the same letter asking him to resign from a board at the Naval Academy. Good!
 

Saintman2884

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Sigh, your hyperbole is just tiring. No. Cities all across the country did not burn this summer. Not even close. You’ve said that lie before, I don’t know if you believe the lie, or just repeat the lie because you want to score “points” for your side and don’t care.

The PB have on occasion been allowed to riot by some local police departments with them looking the other way. It’s well documented. But peaceful protestors were subjected to tear gas and rubber bullets. The police should have arrested the PB who attacked others just the same as the police arrested the people on the other side who turned to violence.

In at least one occasion I saw police officers slashing tires of cars that were legally parked in a parking lot. I saw police illegally target press, in a few cases hitting them with rubber bullets. One time in particular the cop aimed directly at a reporter, who identified himself and he fired anyway. I watched them shove an 80-some year old man so hard he had a brain bleed and ended up in intensive care. I saw a police officer club a man who was just riding by on a bicycle not hurting anything.

If you have information about police officers killing themselves after this summer, I‘d like to see it. I’m open to it, but generally the police were handing out the punishment not on the receiving end like January 6. That makes a huge difference to your overall mental state I would think. To me it’s fairly obvious that the police on Jan 6 were traumatized by brutality far beyond what they could even imagine. It’s reasonable to think this traumatic event contributed to high rate of suicides immediately after and up to a few months later.
Usually, when riot police in major cities go on the offensive, or engage in questionable, illegal, over-the-top physical, psychological attacks or intimidation to protesters when they know well in advance of certain rallies being held. And yes, Capitol Police and the FBI both knew that several far-right white nationalist groups were coming to D.C. on Jan. 6 to step up, and show solidarity for a man who legally lost his re-election presidential campaign, but was cynically attempting every legal or illegal maneuver available to him to successfully delay it or obstruct it. Law enforcement likely knew with the PB or Oath Keepers there was a decent chance for armed confrontation, violence, or disruptive behavior, but the eventual, almost cataclysmic series of events that occurred that fateful day, police and most law enforcement agencies, be it Capitol, Park, D.C. Metro, or National Guard couldn't have reacted in a forceful, responsive manner. Or at least that sounds like a passable, believable excuse most major U.S. cities police departments PR reps know some people might buy.

The BLM protests, overwhelmingly, were peaceful, and overall, non-violent, although there was looting and burning of stores, restaurants and of buildings in Minnesota/St. Paul, Los Angeles( particurlarly Inglewood), Washington D.C. Chicago, especially Portland even as recently as three weeks ago when Portland's mayor, Ted Wheeler, allowing Antifa and Proud Boys members to engage in a Wild West pushing, shoving and even shooting matches in parts of the downtown area. This isn't the first time this dumb arse has been called out not just by federal authorities but also Oregon's Democratic governor last summer and earlier this year for not preventing potential violence from happening between hated idealogical extremist groups or factions.

MT15, I can't say a large number of cops committed suicide after dealing with and handling of some of the more heated, testy, violent BLM protests, but I can certainly link you up to more then a few online articles posted last fall and earlier this year about a large number, or percentage of cops, members of law enforcement either retiring or leaving voluntarily due to perceived public hostility, antagonism in certain major metro US cities like Minneapolis, Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, or Seattle. Also, a good portion of this antagonism was related to "Defund the Police" short-lived, now seemingly fringe movement that's gone very quiet, eerily, and not inconsequentially, since January 6 insurrection.
"Defund the Police" doesn't seem like such a very good, wise and intelligent change of policymaking after several hundred far-right white nationalists storm the Capitol building in a scene reminiscent of a bad "Purge" movie and far more frightening, too in its implications.

Still, if you want to read the articles, I will link up as many as I can find for you, MT.
 
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Saintman2884

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How is what you said any different than what I said? Aside from the long-winded history lesson, lol? I said most of the attendees partook spontaneously, but there was a small group of yahoos who came prepared for violence. They knew what they wanted to do, and came armed with weapons to accomplish the feat.
I'd rather give long-winded history lessons that may come across as boring, God forbid, to some but at least are well-meaning, well-informed, and knowledgable then barely being able to compose a few legible sentences about complex, nuanced political or social issues that are poorly-written, come from an ignorant, uneducated mind, and frankly sound stupid and unintelligible.

I'd rather be the former than the latter, any day MT15.
 

MT15

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I didn’t mean any offense, 2884. You told me something I didn’t know. I’m sorry if I offended you.
It’s just that it didn’t seem to have anything to do with what I had said, and I couldn’t tell what I said that you were disagreeing with (which you seemed to be doing based on your remarks).
 

MT15

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Usually, when riot police in major cities go on the offensive, or engage in questionable, illegal, over-the-top physical, psychological attacks or intimidation to protesters when they know well in advance of certain rallies being held. And yes, Capitol Police and the FBI both knew that several far-right white nationalist groups were coming to D.C. on Jan. 6 to step up, and show solidarity for a man who legally lost his re-election presidential campaign, but was cynically attempting every legal or illegal maneuver available to him to successfully delay it or obstruct it. Law enforcement likely knew with the PB or Oath Keepers there was a decent chance for armed confrontation, violence, or disruptive behavior, but the eventual, almost cataclysmic series of events that occurred that fateful day, police and most law enforcement agencies, be it Capitol, Park, D.C. Metro, or National Guard couldn't have reacted in a forceful, responsive manner. Or at least that sounds like a passable, believable excuse most major U.S. cities police departments PR reps know some people might buy.

The BLM protests, overwhelmingly, were peaceful, and overall, non-violent, although there was looting and burning of stores, restaurants and of buildings in Minnesota/St. Paul, Los Angeles( particurlarly Inglewood), Washington D.C. Chicago, especially Portland even as recently as three weeks ago when Portland's mayor, Ted Wheeler, allowing Antifa and Proud Boys members to engage in a Wild West pushing, shoving and even shooting matches in parts of the downtown area. This isn't the first time this dumb arse has been called out not just by federal authorities but also Oregon's Democratic governor last summer and earlier this year for not preventing potential violence from happening between hated idealogical extremist groups or factions.

MT15, I can't say a large number of cops committed suicide after dealing with and handling of some of the more heated, testy, violent BLM protests, but I can certainly link you up to more then a few online articles posted last fall and earlier this year about a large number, or percentage of cops, members of law enforcement either retiring or leaving voluntarily due to perceived public hostility, antagonism in certain major metro US cities like Minneapolis, Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, or Seattle. Also, a good portion of this antagonism was related to "Defund the Police" short-lived, now seemingly fringe movement that's gone very quiet, eerily, and not inconsequentially, since January 6 insurrection.
"Defund the Police" doesn't seem like such a very good, wise and intelligent change of policymaking after several hundred far-right white nationalists storm the Capitol building in a scene reminiscent of a bad "Purge" movie and far more frightening, too in its implications.

Still, if you want to read the articles, I will link up as many as I can find for you, MT.
My post was directed at Farb, my bad for not quoting him in it. He had asked how many police officers committed suicide after the BLM protests. I believe he did it as a way of trying to minimize the effects of the Jan 6 insurrection on the police who were there. I agree with most of what you said.
 
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Farb

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I'd rather give long-winded history lessons that may come across as boring, God forbid, to some but at least are well-meaning, well-informed, and knowledgable then barely being able to compose a few legible sentences about complex, nuanced political or social issues that are poorly-written, come from an ignorant, uneducated mind, and frankly sound stupid and unintelligible.

I'd rather be the former than the latter, any day MT15.
I feel personally attacked by this post. :(
 

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