All things Racist...USA edition (1 Viewer)

B4YOU

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I get what you're saying, and I think a lot of it is valid. Targeting poor people instead of targeting a specific race, will still disproportionately help minorities since they are disproportionately poor.

However, an important thing to consider I think, is making a specific point to make amends for past wrongs. We cannot really move forward on race until we actually consciously, specifically acknowledge that what this country did was wrong, that we are sorry, that we will make amends and we will never do it again. And the black community will need to hear that apology, recognize it as sincere, and accept it.

DBE policies don’t limit its benefits to the black community. It benefits every group except white males. It’s not an amends to the black community but just discrimination against one group.

If it was called “White Male Business Penalty”, would people be as supportive?

DBE isn’t reparations and an apology.
 

Heathen

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I was looking for a place to put this so we could discuss but didn't really find a place that worked so I created this thread so we can all place articles, experiences, videos and examples of racism in the USA.

This is one that happened this week. The lady even called and filed a complaint on the officer. This officer also chose to wear the body cam (apparently, LA doesn't require this yet). This exchange wasn't necessarily racist IMO until she started with the "mexican racist...you will never be white, like you want" garbage. That is when it turned racist IMO

All the murderer and other insults, I think are just a by product of CRT and ACAB rhetoric that is very common on the radical left and sadly is being brought to mainstream in this country.

Another point that I think is worth mentioning is she is a teacher and the sense of entitlement she feels is mind blowing.

https://news.yahoo.com/black-teacher-berates-latino-la-221235341.html

There is no “radical left” in this country. Even Democrats are pretty right wing compared to other comparable nations in the UK.

This nation is so right winged, anything less than yes to the status quo is considered “radical”. A real left wing threat to the resident right is one that galvanizes the working class and poor for an expansion of rights in an economy that is increasingly anti-middle class, and pro corporation. That movement isn’t a threat to Republicans and most Democrats right now. Sanders had a movement, but it’ll be a long time before it takes the nation by storm.

I hope to be around still if it does, though.
 

B4YOU

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Sure. Maybe I punch you in the face and kill your dog... then I tell you "hey, let's not add to the animosity. Let's pretend nothing happened and go on with our lives in harmony..."

Would've been nice if that would've happened in the 1800's to 1900's.

Race and gender are social constructs, however, those very social constructs have been used to discriminate and oppress people who fall within those social constructs.

That's great, but again, people who fall into certain race and/or gender classification have been discriminated against and/or oppressed because of their race/gender. I guess we all should forgive and forget ... well, not all of us, just those who were discriminated against and oppressed

Perhaps we should educate them...
Let’s fix past mistakes by repeating past mistakes?
 

UncleTrvlingJim

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I think that is the main problem. We fought a war against each other to correct the wrong. Of course slavery is wrong. I am not sure about this, but western civilization is the only culture/Civ to not have slavery even in todays world. So this guilt that is demanded and if not given, forced upon us will make most American's pull back. Just a natural response. I know I am a white supremist racist nazi, I am fine with that, but the easy thing you guys tend to do is make this entire left ideology of white and western guilt a race thing and that is proving to be false. I personally know several black and brown and women that are repulsed by this, especially in the church communities. There are several black leaders that are speaking out against this and it will only grow as more people get fed up with it especially as it is creeping (actually herded) into our school system.

This is one of those things that I find both fascinating and depressing. Where you hear demands for Western guilt and what not - I hear demands for taking responsibility and correcting past wrongs.

I feel absolutely zero guilt about slavery or Jim Crow laws or any of that. None. I also have never felt like anyone is trying to make me personally feel guilty for things this country has done to black people.

I do feel a responsibility to make things better though.

I would also posit that we aren't making it a race thing. Facts make it a race thing. This country divided people up by race and deliberately treated some races very badly. I trust that is not in dispute right?

I assume what is in dispute is that some people (myself being one of them) believe that all that doesn't just disappear once the laws are no longer explicitly racist, and others who believe there's nothing more to do once explicitly racist laws are gone. There have been decades and generations of damage, and it will take decades to undo that damage. People don't stop being biased b/c people now drink out of the same water fountain.

Now I'm generally an optimist, and I believe that we can do nothing more explicit and in 50-75 years, things will probably work themselves out as long as there is no longer discrimination by law. We'll have periodic outbursts of protests and riots over lingering distrust in the system, but over time I think there's a good chance we'll find some different way to divide ourselves up instead of melatonin content in the skin. But that seems a pretty crappy way to do things, both because of people now who are living through it and because it's dishonorable.

Since we love analogies and metaphors here - if someone beats you up every day and takes your money, every day for a long time. They take that money and invest it in things and give the fruits of that investment to their friends. Then one day you talk to some of that person's friends and some of them agree with you that he should stop beating you up and taking your money and manage to convince him to stop doing that. But that person doesn't apologize, doesn't give you your money back, and lives on the investments he made with the money he took from you. How are you going to feel about that guy? Are you going to trust him? After all, he's no longer explicitly taking your money, but I'm sure you'd be pretty hesitant to believe that things are cool between the two of you.

Yes, it's not a perfect analogy, but the point is - things aren't all better once laws are explicitly made neutral. First, there are still lots of people raised on racist ideology (which I trust is not in dispute), even if they logically believe that race is not a good reason to discriminate, that stuff permeates your subconscious - and those people are in positions of power. Then there's just general distrust of a system that has been bad to a group of people and that distrust is going to stick around until it is proven to them that things are fair.
 
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UncleTrvlingJim

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Get outta here with that CRT talk. Lucky you're not a teacher; you'd be arrested for talking that shirt in many states now.

I'm still trying to figure out the specifics of what makes CRT so bad. It sounds like another boogeyman. I have kids in public school, and I haven't seen anything to make me believe there is an agenda to make white people feel guilty and hate this country because of the bad things this country did to other people.

Is the objection that people don't want our schools to teach that we had slavery, and that it was really horrible to people and it effected the black population for a very long time and we're still trying to figure out how to reconcile and move past it?
 

SystemShock

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Let’s fix past mistakes by repeating past mistakes?

The problem we have here is that you think that because Al and Bob can now freely run, they are on an equal playing field, and the advantage Al got has no bearing in the success or failure of Bob.

Again, I don't know that DBE is the best way to address the sins of the past, but the sins of the past were committed, and still have tremendous social and economical repercussions on people today; which you refuse to address. You just want to let bygones be bygones.
 

B4YOU

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.......
Again, I don't know that DBE is the best way to address the sins of the past, but the sins of the past were committed, and still have tremendous social and economical repercussions on people today; which you refuse to address. You just want to let bygones be bygones.
Which I refuse to address? I’m suggesting using better metrics for fixing those social and economic repercussions than discriminating against some business owners based on race and gender because it just leads to more animosity. I laid out some of those metrics.

You do know DBE isn’t for black only business? Here’s a typical list: African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian Pacific Americans, Subcontinent Asian Americans, Native Americans, and Women.
 

V Chip

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Is the objection that people don't want our schools to teach that we had slavery, and that it was really horrible to people and it effected the black population for a very long time and we're still trying to figure out how to reconcile and move past it?
Yes. Exactly.

Wait, what am I saying. It’s propaganda made to make the white people feel bad and continue letting the Bobs be lazy, shiftless takers of all the white man’s hard work.
 

SystemShock

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Which I refuse to address? I’m suggesting using better metrics for fixing those social and economic repercussions than discriminating against some business owners based on race and gender because it just leads to more animosity. I laid out some of those metrics.
And just like I am not certain that DBE is the best solution, I am not certain your metrics can actually be measured in any more equitable way.

You keep using the word discrimination, but it really isn't discrimination: there is a big difference difference between "you go after" and "you don't go at all".

You do know DBE isn’t for black only business?
Yes, I do.
Here’s a typical list: African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian Pacific Americans, Subcontinent Asian Americans, Native Americans, and Women.
That list should tell you something, but I guess it doesn't.

You are very concerned about the animosity of the uneducated GOP'ers, but the reality is, no matter what, that animosity will still be there until the South rises again. Yet, you are not concerned at all about the animosity of the people who have been negatively impacted for generations.
 

B4YOU

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And just like I am not certain that DBE is the best solution, I am not certain your metrics can actually be measured in any more equitable way.

You keep using the word discrimination, but it really isn't discrimination: there is a big difference difference between "you go after" and "you don't go at all".


Yes, I do.

That list should tell you something, but I guess it doesn't.

You are very concerned about the animosity of the uneducated GOP'ers, but the reality is, no matter what, that animosity will still be there until the South rises again. Yet, you are not concerned at all about the animosity of the people who have been negatively impacted for generations.
So you are ok with discrimination as long as the only group affected is white males?

Need based funding for individuals using income inequality as a metric is much easier to measure using tax returns than race and gender. You do know how easily one can put a small business in a wife’s name? Government should focus resources on individuals and not businesses.

You keep assuming/stating I’m not concerned about history or animosity when I’m offering alternatives. You’re wrong. You’re making this ad hominem argument because DBE policies for whatever good they may provide are discrimination.
 

UncleTrvlingJim

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This is a slight segue because this is a story is about something in Canada, and this is the eve of the Tulsa massacre, however, we had "Indian schools" in the United States as well, and the same things happened here.


I'm a little frustrated and angry right now, so I'm not able to effectively communicate what I want to say. One of the things that makes me angry is that many of the people who I argue with have similar opinions about not wanting to remove statues honoring traitors who wanted to keep men in chains based on race because something, something history, while at the same time not wanting to teach about the terrible things humans do to each other, including in this country because of reasons. My wife grew up in Scottsdale Arizona, a few blocks away from Indian School Road. She had no idea what an indian school was until she went to college. It was not taught.

I feel like people want to sweep this under the rug, b/c they are afraid that America is too fragile and weak to stare at the truth, accept its flaws and sins. In my opinion, they are standing in the way of American greatness. Being great is not deny, deny, deny making mistakes. It's being able to look at those mistakes, understand why they were made, make amends, resolve to never do them again, and never, ever forget them. No one is immune from the human condition. No one.

Sorry, that was a bit of mess.
 
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SFIDC3

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This is a slight segue because this is a story is about something in Canada, and this is the eve of the Tulsa massacre, however, we had "Indian schools" in the United States as well, and the same things happened here.


I'm a little frustrated and angry right now, so I'm not able to effectively communicate what I want to say. One of the things that makes me angry is that many of the people who I argue with have similar opinions about not wanting to remove statues honoring traitors who wanted to keep men in chains based on race because something, something history, while at the same time not wanting to teach about the terrible things humans do to each other, including in this country because of reasons. My wife grew up in Scottsdale Arizona, a few blocks away from Indian School Road. She had no idea what an indian school was until she went to college. It was not taught.

I feel like people want to sweep this under the rug, b/c they are too fragile and weak to accept our flaws and our sins, and they believe America is too weak as well. In my opinion, they are standing in the way of American greatness. Being great is not deny, deny, deny making mistakes. It's being able to look at those mistakes, understand why they were made, make amends, resolve to never do them again, and never, ever forget them. No one is immune from the human condition. No one.

Sorry, that was a bit of mess.

No, it wasn't (replying to your last line)....it was a great post.

About every other year, I make a trip with friends to meet my cousin in MT and do some fly-fishing. We go at least once (sometimes twice) to the Big Hole River valley. We visited the Big Hole National Battlefield site a few years ago, I'll just say it was a sobering experience....makes you think a little different about the history you were taught in school....
 

SystemShock

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So you are ok with discrimination as long as the only group affected is white males?

Need based funding for individuals using income inequality as a metric is much easier to measure using tax returns than race and gender. You do know how easily one can put a small business in a wife’s name? Government should focus resources on individuals and not businesses.

You keep assuming/stating I’m not concerned about history or animosity when I’m offering alternatives. You’re wrong. You’re making this ad hominem argument because DBE policies for whatever good they may provide are discrimination.

According to the Dept of transportation site, the mandate is that at least 10% of funds authorized for highway and financial assistance be expended with DBE's. So, if I am reading it correctly, there is a potential 90% of funds that can be used on advantaged, disadvantaged, or otherwise, good ol' white male folk. That is hardly discrimination against white males. It is just guaranteeing a small piece of the pie to women and minorities. If you think that is discrimination, you either don't know what discrimination is or you are victimizing yourself.

We also have to what would happen if DBE didn't exist. Would minorities and women even get a taste of the pie? Given the history and the prevalence of systemic racism, what prevents giving everything to white males, rich or poor, if there isn't a statute that says a small piece of the pie must go to disadvantaged women and minorities?


And also:
Using race and gender instead of local and small just creates animosity.

Adding to the overall animosity

If you institutionally discriminate against the bottom rung of a group that feels like power and status is slipping away, then you will give justification to their radicalization.
 
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CoolBrees

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I have worked in construction project management, both large and small, for 20 years. I have worked on federal, state and local government contracts. The government has had these requirements for minority and women owned businesses for as long as I have been working.

And at the beginning of a project, it is the number one priority in selecting contractors until the quota is met. And it should be this way for two reasons.

1) There aren’t that many women or minority owned GC or contractors. At all. Like is is so sad how few there are. And the women owned ones have their own issue- many are “owned” by the wife of the original owner who has his company in his wife’s name and a prenup to reclaim the asset in case of divorce.

2) white male work forces overwhelmingly won’t work for them. I don’t think I have to explain this one. Their work force is almost entirely made up of the demographic the owner is from. This makes having a black owned construction business bidding in Utah a bit of a problem.

I don’t even have to go into the bias that banks and other lending agencies have and how ensuring the massive bonds the contractors have to acquire is even more difficult.

And by the way, and I realize this is totally anecdotal, but I have had the pleasure of working with only 5 contractors that were minority or women owned. In 20 years and literally hundreds of contractors. Two were the “women owned in name only” and only one was owned by a minority. Phan was from Vietnam.

The other two were 100% women crews here in Portland, while building breweries. One were carpenters (Union) and one was millwright (union). If you don’t know what millwright are, they are the welders, builders and movers of heavy machinery.
 

coldseat

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I think that is the main problem. We fought a war against each other to correct the wrong. Of course slavery is wrong. I am not sure about this, but western civilization is the only culture/Civ to not have slavery even in todays world. So this guilt that is demanded and if not given, forced upon us will make most American's pull back. Just a natural response. I know I am a white supremist racist nazi, I am fine with that, but the easy thing you guys tend to do is make this entire left ideology of white and western guilt a race thing and that is proving to be false. I personally know several black and brown and women that are repulsed by this, especially in the church communities. There are several black leaders that are speaking out against this and it will only grow as more people get fed up with it especially as it is creeping (actually herded) into our school system.

The civil war ended slavery, but it did not correct the wrong of white supremacy. It inflamed it in the decades after the war. That "wrong" is still working powerfully in our culture today.

Thinking that the civil war and ending slavery corrected the wrong of white supremacy is the product of whitewashed history taught in schools. Some of that CRT may have done you good.
 

B4YOU

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According to the Dept of transportation site, the mandate is that at least 10% of funds authorized for highway and financial assistance be expended with DBE's. So, if I am reading it correctly, there is a potential 90% of funds that can be used on advantaged, disadvantaged, or otherwise, good ol' white male folk. That is hardly discrimination against white males. It is just guaranteeing a small piece of the pie to women and minorities. If you think that is discrimination, you either don't know what discrimination is or you are victimizing yourself.

We also have to what would happen if DBE didn't exist. Would minorities and women even get a taste of the pie? Given the history and the prevalence of systemic racism, what prevents giving everything to white males, rich or poor, if there isn't a statute that says a small piece of the pie must go to disadvantaged women and minorities?


And also:
Yes, DOT has a 10% set aside and Biden is raising it to 15%. Link DBEs also get preferential scoring on 100% of bids in my state for every contract available, not just transportation.

At what set aside % would you view DBE policy as unfair and discriminatory? Would 70% be ok since white males make up 30% population? What happens if Asians who are 5.5% of US population secure 30% of DBE funds? Should we break every race and gender into separate categories and ensure each group gets their equal/equitable share? Are race and gender still social constructs when we draw such rigid lines around them? How much of a premium in taxes are you willing to pay for this?

I think government should address racial wealth inequalities at the individual level and let businesses compete equally to keep costs as low as possible.
 

SystemShock

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Yes, DOT has a 10% set aside and Biden is raising it to 15%. Link DBEs also get preferential scoring on 100% of bids in my state for every contract available, not just transportation.
Out of curiosity, what State is that? How can we verify that statement?

So it goes from 10% to 15%. So what? More "discrimination"?
At what set aside % would you view DBE policy as unfair and discriminatory? Would 70% be ok since white males make up 30% population? What happens if Asians who are 5.5% of US population secure 30% of DBE funds? Should we break every race and gender into separate categories and ensure each group gets their equal/equitable share? Are race and gender still social constructs when we draw such rigid lines around them? How much of a premium in taxes are you willing to pay for this?
I have no idea what the % should be. Again, I am not even sure DBE is the best way of doing things, but I am sure that setting aside 10-15% of funds to go to over 50% of the population (if you count women) is not discrimination against white males.
I think government should address racial wealth inequalities at the individual level and let businesses compete equally to keep costs as low as possible.
But businesses don't compete equally, do they?
 

Bigdaddysaints

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High school football coaches placed on leave after forcing player who can’t consume pork to eat pepperoni pizza​

I hope all the coaches involved never get a HS coaching job again.
Gilbert told The Post that the boy, who is reportedly 6-foot-5 and 280 pounds, injured his shoulder May 19 and that he skipped practice the next day. When the teenager showed up May 24 to a voluntary strength and conditioning session, Gilbert said, he was ordered to sit in a chair in the middle of the school’s gym. Then, Wattley, who has been at the school for two years, allegedly gave him an ultimatum: Eat the pepperoni pizza for skipping practice or his teammates would face additional drills.

The player’s refusal to eat the pizza also would mean that his position on the team could be jeopardized, the Repository reported.

Because he is a Hebrew Israelite, the player allegedly told the coaches at least 10 times that he was forbidden to eat pork or pork residue, according to Gilbert. The coaches allowed the athlete to remove some of the pepperoni from the pizza, but the pork residue was still on the slices, the attorney said at Tuesday’s news conference.
 

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