All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (4 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Because a subway is a petri dish. This virus is real but the infection and death rate are numbers are fugded for political reasons. We "flattened the curve" now its time to get people back to work. People are tired of staying home.

Has any of the tents and extra hospitals set up even been used. Nurses and Dr's are dancing on tik tok. Enough with the political BS. Open everything back up.

Yes, subways are a petri dish, but I'm curious as to why you think this no worse than the flu, and the numbers are fudged for political reasons.

 

[dtc]

Because NYC has subways. Take them out of the picture and the flu is much deadlier. The rest of the country can go about business as usual.

You say the flu is more deadly, but let's examine for a second.

There are slightly more than 1,000,000 cases in the US diagnosed.

Of those diagnosed, almost 70,000 have died.

That's 7% death rate post diagnosis.

The flu hasn't killed 70,000 people in the past 4 years combined.

 

[Surviving Saint]

You say the flu is more deadly, but let's examine for a second.

There are slightly more than 1,000,000 cases in the US diagnosed.

Of those diagnosed, almost 70,000 have died.

That's 7% death rate post diagnosis.

The flu hasn't killed 70,000 people in the past 4 years combined.

IF you believe those numbers. The tests are 60% accurate? So the infection numbers and cases are incorrect.

The death numbers are obviously manipulated. Someone dies of a heart attack and found to have the virus, mark it down for a Covid victim.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

IF you believe those numbers. The tests are 60% accurate? So the infection numbers and cases are incorrect.

The death numbers are obviously manipulated. Someone dies of a heart attack and found to have the virus, mark it down for a Covid victim.

Except that isn't the case. Overall deaths are up, despite people are staying home. Further pneumonia deaths are through the roof right now -- in the past 2 months 64,000 people have died that were marked down as pneumonia deaths. In 2 months. There were only 40,000 people marked down as dying from pneumonia in all of 2019. If anything, the deaths from COVID-19 are under reported.

 

[FullMonte]

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/960679?section=us&keywords=surgeon-general-adams-masks&year=2020&month=03&date=31&id=960679&oref=t.co

Did you actually READ that article?

"saying that wearing one improperly can "actually increase your risk" of getting the disease. "

He didn't say that wearing a mask increases your risk. He says that wearing one IMPROPERLY can increase your risk.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Did you actually READ that article?

"saying that wearing one improperly can "actually increase your risk" of getting the disease. "

He didn't say that wearing a mask increases your risk. He says that wearing one IMPROPERLY can increase your risk.

It also says in that same article that they might change their recommendation as time goes on and the situation changes.

 

[Surviving Saint]

Did you actually READ that article?

"saying that wearing one improperly can "actually increase your risk" of getting the disease. "

He didn't say that wearing a mask increases your risk. He says that wearing one IMPROPERLY can increase your risk.

How many people are wearing them properly? Some places fine you for not wearing one. What to do??

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

And to address the concern about people dying of a heart attack but being written down as a Covid-19 death. I posted an article earlier about how this virus kills people (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...ace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes).

One of the ways it kills people is by attacking the heart, causing a heart attack. It's not limited to Covid-19, it's called adenovirus fulminant myocarditis. I didn't know about this either until I heard about a girl from Louisiana who had a Covid-19 induced heart attack, she required CPR to get her heart started again. She was an otherwise healthy 12 year old girl with no pre-existing conditions. I heard about it through friends of a friend of a friend on Facebook, so I looked it up, here's her story:

'I Died and Came Back,' Says 12-Year-Old Coronavirus Survivor

Doctors believe that children with coronavirus infections often have different symptoms than adults

time.com

The lesson is that it isn't weird to blame the death of someone who had a heart attack on Covid-19. And that this isn't completely safe for the young healthy population. They have a lower mortality rate, not a zero mortality rate.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

How many people are wearing them properly? Some places fine you for not wearing one. What to do??

Wear one properly? And ask that everyone else wear one properly as well?

 

[SystemShock]

You say the flu is more deadly, but let's examine for a second.

There are slightly more than 1,000,000 cases in the US diagnosed.

Of those diagnosed, almost 70,000 have died.

That's 7% death rate post diagnosis.

The flu hasn't killed 70,000 people in the past 4 years combined.

According to the CDC (as reported by CNN), the 2017-2018 flu season saw ~80,000 deaths, with 900,000 hospitalizations.

Flu season deaths top 80,000 last year, CDC says

The 2017-2018 flu season was one of the deadliest in decades according to the CDC. An estimated 80,000 Americans died of flu and its complications last winter.

www.cnn.com

"Post diagnosis" loses its meaning when talking about fast spreading viruses, especially considering that it is believed by scientists exposure is underestimated by a factor anywhere between 50 and 85 because of testing shortcomings.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

According to the CDC (as reported by CNN), the 2017-2018 flu season saw ~80,000 deaths, with 900,000 hospitalizations.

Flu season deaths top 80,000 last year, CDC says

The 2017-2018 flu season was one of the deadliest in decades according to the CDC. An estimated 80,000 Americans died of flu and its complications last winter.

www.cnn.com

"Post diagnosis" loses its meaning when talking about fast spreading viruses, especially considering that it is believed by scientists exposure is underestimated by a factor anywhere between 50 and 85 because of testing shortcomings.

You might have missed my earlier post but the actual number of confirmed flu deaths for 2017-2018 is a little over 15,000. The rest are an assumed deaths based on CDC algorithm.

National Center for Health Statistics Mortality Surveillance System

gis.cdc.gov

So, 65,000 confirmed deaths in 5 weeks compared to 15,000 confirmed deaths over the course of the year. Not even a contest.

 

[JimEverett]

Except that isn't the case. Overall deaths are up, despite people are staying home. Further pneumonia deaths are through the roof right now -- in the past 2 months 64,000 people have died that were marked down as pneumonia deaths. In 2 months. There were only 40,000 people marked down as dying from pneumonia in all of 2019. If anything, the deaths from COVID-19 are under reported.

The "pneumonia deaths" are interesting. I have not been aware of that.
I have seen "excess deaths" used as a claim that covid-19 deaths are underreported. But the excess death increase could also be attributed to the reaction to covid-19 itself. As in - people neglecting to go to their doctor, neglecting elective surgery, bans on people entering certain clinics.
Its also true that the NYTimes analysis of excess deaths focused on select states that had atual excess deaths while many states had deaths below average - those states were ignored by the Times article.
Anecdotally - I know two heart doctors who have both told me, on separate occasions, similar things about the number of people coming to them with chest pains, signs of heart attacks, a-fib, arrhythmias, etc are way below average.

It just seems unclear whether deaths from Covid-19 are underreported (or overreported) to me.

 

[dtc]

According to the CDC (as reported by CNN), the 2017-2018 flu season saw ~80,000 deaths, with 900,000 hospitalizations.

Flu season deaths top 80,000 last year, CDC says

The 2017-2018 flu season was one of the deadliest in decades according to the CDC. An estimated 80,000 Americans died of flu and its complications last winter.

www.cnn.com

"Post diagnosis" loses its meaning when talking about fast spreading viruses, especially considering that it is believed by scientists exposure is underestimated by a factor anywhere between 50 and 85 because of testing shortcomings.

The estimated deaths by flu are, according to what I've read, drastically overstated.

The whole thing has become a shirt show and I'm not going to argue that the flu isn't deadly because it is. What i will say is that this is worse. It's faster, harder, meaner, more easily spread and far more likely to kill millions than the common flu.

 

[dtc]

The "pneumonia deaths" are interesting. I have not been aware of that.
I have seen "excess deaths" used as a claim that covid-19 deaths are underreported. But the excess death increase could also be attributed to the reaction to covid-19 itself. As in - people neglecting to go to their doctor, neglecting elective surgery, bans on people entering certain clinics.
Its also true that the NYTimes analysis of excess deaths focused on select states that had atual excess deaths while many states had deaths below average - those states were ignored by the Times article.
Anecdotally - I know two heart doctors who have both told me, on separate occasions, similar things about the number of people coming to them with chest pains, signs of heart attacks, a-fib, arrhythmias, etc are way below average.

It just seems unclear whether deaths from Covid-19 are underreported (or overreported) to me.

It's hard to tell, but if we just assume what we are getting is accurate, we have seen 70k deaths in the past 2 months. That's a ton. And there are more coming. More worrisome to me is the fact that our area is predicted to become a new hotspot, but everywhere you turn there are masses of people complaining about freedom and congregating. hell, there was a traffic jam at a fishing tackle place today at 10am. 40 cars. The Waffle House next door is closed and it was half full of people lined up buying bait and tackle.

There's very likely going to be a huge spike coming here and preceding it are 70% of the area telling us this whole thing is a hoax put forth by Bill Gates and Fauci to get rich off implants and vaccinations.

 

[dtc]

IF you believe those numbers. The tests are 60% accurate? So the infection numbers and cases are incorrect.

The death numbers are obviously manipulated. Someone dies of a heart attack and found to have the virus, mark it down for a Covid victim.

You've been listening to trash. Doctors are not falsifying death certificates in order to increase Covid cases. If anything, the deaths are being understated and, if you don't believe it, look no farther than my own town where they just got around to noting a number of folks who died at nursing homes and were never tested.

And someone with manageable conditions that gets this and dies didn't die from the manageable condition.

 

[JimEverett]

It's hard to tell, but if we just assume what we are getting is accurate, we have seen 70k deaths in the past 2 months. That's a ton. And there are more coming. More worrisome to me is the fact that our area is predicted to become a new hotspot, but everywhere you turn there are masses of people complaining about freedom and congregating. hell, there was a traffic jam at a fishing tackle place today at 10am. 40 cars. The Waffle House next door is closed and it was half full of people lined up buying bait and tackle.

There's very likely going to be a huge spike coming here and preceding it are 70% of the area telling us this whole thing is a hoax put forth by Bill Gates and Fauci to get rich off implants and vaccinations.

What is going on where you live?

I have some friends down there who say the area is overrun with out of towners despite the fact that some counties have banned short term rentals?

Have to admit - I have been buying a lot of bait cause all I am doing is fishing with my kids these days. bu no crowds where I go

 

[dtc]

What is going on where you live?

I have some friends down there who say the area is overrun with out of towners despite the fact that some counties have banned short term rentals?

Have to admit - I have been buying a lot of bait cause all I am doing is fishing with my kids these days. bu no crowds where I go

Despite all the pressure to open up and the fact that they are starting, our death rate hasn't dropped. We've got over 500 cases now and only 300 two weeks ago. i know we are testing more in this area, but all that's showing us is that there are far more out there passing the virus around than previously thought.

Top that with people being outright stupid and it's a potential disaster scenario.

Friday was the first day beaches were to be open. They were slap full. Every parking spot was full. Masses of folks hanging out in parking lots of churches and other places were seen. Last week there was a giant block party at one of the housing projects and the last 3 days have seen reports of people who were there now infected. People are absolutely not wearing masks. They are not keeping distant. The main street in our downtown had 50 motorcyclists parked in front of a local bar now selling togo drinks and food. The restaurants are only able to offer 25% indoor capacity so they set seats outside and people were crammed in.

And, what really bothers me is the political divide. It makes no sense that Republicans nearly universally believe that we should open everything up because it's a hoax or because the economy can't handle the damage from the shutdown. Almost universal disdain for statistics and experts leads me to believe that the callous and short-sighted refusal to face reality may be going about to bring our area into crisis.

And, I'll edit to add, you are correct. Travel restrictions aren't really legal and anyone with a house here who can escape NOLA or ATL is here. A large number of our documented cases are being classified as in county, but not originating here. Those are the numbers increasing most quickly and it seems there's a direct correlation between those increases and our NOLA and NY/NJ part-time residents.

 

[V Chip]

Masks increase virus risk.

The surgeon General said improperly wearing a mask is worse for you.

Hmm it’s almost as if the extremely important qualifier “improperly” was deliberately left off the first statement to completely change the meaning to make an invalid point...

Who and CDC both claims the general public shouldn't wear them.

No, they don’t. That’s a 100% incorrect statement.

COVID-19 and Your Health

Symptoms, testing, what to do if sick, daily activities, and more.

www.cdc.gov

CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies), especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.

The WHO does NOT claim the general public should not wear them. They do state there is little evidence that masks prevent (as in “are completely effective”) transmission but they do NOT state the general public should NOT wear masks.

https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstreams/1274280/retrieve

There is limited evidence that wearing a medical mask by healthy individuals in the households or among contacts of a sick patient, or among attendees of mass gatherings may be beneficial as a preventive measure.

That’s a far cry from “the general public shouldn’t wear them.