All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (2 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[superchuck500]

If all you're going to post is junk Twitter feeds, I guess I'll just quit reading your posts. Thanks.

Oh well, it's clear that the point is lost on you anyway.

 

[Dadsdream]

Oh well, it's clear that the point is lost on you anyway.

Don't feel bad. I don't read anybody else's Twitter junk either.

 

[superchuck500]

Don't feel bad. I don't read anybody else's Twitter junk either.

Just to be clear, the twitter thread I posted was a collation of news sources including the Healio (a journal of infectious disease), the New York Times, Washington Post, Politico, the Pierson Institute for International Economics, Science Magazine, Vox, Reuters, and official government documents from office of the Director of National Intelligence.

But you're calling that junk because it comes in a wrapper from something you don't like. That's your quality filter: the wrapper.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Just to be clear, the twitter thread I posted was a collation of news sources including the Healio (a journal of infectious disease), the New York Times, Washington Post, Politico, the Pierson Institute for International Economics, Science Magazine, Vox, Reuters, and official government documents from office of the Director of National Intelligence.

Far Left, liberal, lamestream fishwrap every last one

 

[Dadsdream]

Just to be clear, the twitter thread I posted was a collation of news sources including the Healio (a journal of infectious disease), the New York Times, Washington Post, Politico, the Pierson Institute for International Economics, Science Magazine, Vox, Reuters, and official government documents from office of the Director of National Intelligence.

But you're calling that junk because it comes in a wrapper from something you don't like. That's your quality filter: the wrapper.

Just to be clear, I went to the guy's Twitter feed and it's dedicated to "investigations" of Trump.
It's a totally self-serving echo chamber regardless of where it's sourced from.

 

[superchuck500]

Just to be clear, I went to the guy's Twitter feed and it's dedicated to "investigations" of Trump.
It's a totally self-serving echo chamber regardless of where it's sourced from.

So you're saying that this guy was able to influence the content of the articles he posted? Science Magazine and the New York Times? Even the DNI? That's quite impressive.

Actually nevermind, it's obvious you're being obtuse. Any further discussion is pointless.

 

[Dadsdream]

So you're saying that this guy was able to influence the content of the articles he posted? Science Magazine and the New York Times? Even the DNI? That's quite impressive.

No. I'm saying he is a drum beater, who has been beating the same damn drum since his hope and dreams were crushed in November 2016.

I've grown tone deaf to it. Share it if you must. I won't be reading it.

 

[JimEverett]

Do you dispute that the Trump administration effectively canceled the emerging human-pathogen program at USAID in 2018? That program had identified and researched some 2,000 potential pandemic threats between 2007 and 2017.

If we are talking about USAid's Predict program then I dispute that. Predict was functioning to March 2020. More to the point- the shutdown of Predict was a function of the leaders of USAid itself, not a decision by Trump Administration over budgetary concerns or any other reason.

Do you dispute that the Trump administration eliminated funding for 80% of the CDC's footprint outside of the US and eliminated the CDC's position for an infectious disease official on the ground in China?

False Claim About CDC's Global Anti-Pandemic Work - FactCheck.org

As the COVID-19 disease caused by the new coronavirus has spread around the world, a number of politicians, news organizations and public figures have made the false claim that the Trump administration cut the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's anti-pandemic work in over 40 countries...

www.factcheck.org

Do you dispute that the Trump administration eliminated the pandemic team situated within the NSC?

I think it has been fairly established that it was not eliminated but rather re-reorganized and perhaps its importance was decreased a bit.

Do you dispute that the Trump administration was provided a pandemic playbook by the outgoing Obama administration that was effectively filed away to archives?



Do you dispute that multiple preparedness simulations since January 2017 revealed that the US was ill-prepared for an epidemic caused by a novel virus?

Do you dispute that epidemiological and medical evidence from Hubei China as early as mid-January demonstrated features of SARS-CoV-2 that indicated that infections in the US were likely and without adequate measures in place to include proper screening, isolation, and contact tracing, a US outbreak was likely . . . and that outbreak would be widespread and require equipment that the US healthcare system was not fully prepared to handle?

Do you dispute that Trump himself downplayed the risk of US outbreak for weeks while urging stock purchases while also receiving briefings about the full scope of likely disruption of American life and the American economy?


I have never liked Trump and that's no secret - I think he's got a uniquely objectionable batch of personality traits that make him unfit to be the president. My opinion is not based on "politics", I'm not a Democrat.

But if my tone and my posted content has gotten more "virulently negative" over the past month, it is because I think that Trump himself is largely accountable for the scope of the impact this thing has had on the US. He has no need for science or experts. He doesn't appreciate the need for global coordination on pandemic response because viruses dont' give a crap about national borders and those viewpoints put us at risk. He foolishly believed that messaging alone could save markets and the economy from the impact of a viral pandemic. And his viewpoint and messaging steered the federal response away from the more robust measures that would have been appropriate.

Those are the facts. That is the record. And it will always be the record for history.

As far as the rest of these, I think it is more complicated then "Trump is responsible for every death . . . ." but clearly there has been a failure of leadership and it has been a failure across the board, imo. The Presdient downplayed this virus for sure, and perhaps there were things that could have been done to slow the spread of this thing that were found in the playbook. But no one was ready for some large scale fight against this as of late February - see the thing about Pelosi and Chinatown.
I just don't get the singular focus on Trump as being responsible for this. The whole of the western world is basically in the same shape.
As far as history - I think a whole lot of our interpretation (including mine) will be changed once we know a great deal more about the virus and from the standpoint of hindsight.

 

[Dadsdream]

You know, folks, just last night I had the creepiest deja vu moment.

I was at my home workstation in a back room and my wife was watching the news in the living room.

I heard an unmistakable voice saying, "What did this president know and when did he know it?"

It was Nancy Pelosi, of course, repeating her go to line AGAIN, this time about the coronavirus.

Two years ago, I heard the same thing about Russia Collusion from Pelosi.

Last year, I heard the same thing about Ukraine Impeachment, from Pelosi.

I do wish the voice of the "loyal" opposition would at least try to find some new wording.

 

[Beach Friends]

CBS is doing its best ABC impression, taking footage from a hospital in Italy and trying to pass it off as footage from a hospital in NYC:

 

[Optimus Prime]

Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, a Republican, said Tuesday on NPR's Morning Edition that President Donald Trump was incorrect in saying coronavirus testing problems had been resolved.

"Yeah, that's just not true. I mean I know that they've taken some steps to create new tests, but they're not actually produced and distributed out to the states." Hogan said, when host Rachel Martin asked him about Trump's assertions. "No state has enough testing." …...…...

'That's just not true.' GOP Gov. Hogan contradicts Trump claim that testing problems are fixed

 

[superchuck500]

If we are talking about USAid's Predict program then I dispute that. Predict was functioning to March 2020. More to the point- the shutdown of Predict was a function of the leaders of USAid itself, not a decision by Trump Administration over budgetary concerns or any other reason.

False Claim About CDC's Global Anti-Pandemic Work - FactCheck.org

As the COVID-19 disease caused by the new coronavirus has spread around the world, a number of politicians, news organizations and public figures have made the false claim that the Trump administration cut the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's anti-pandemic work in over 40 countries...

www.factcheck.org

I think it has been fairly established that it was not eliminated but rather re-reorganized and perhaps its importance was decreased a bit.



As far as the rest of these, I think it is more complicated then "Trump is responsible for every death . . . ." but clearly there has been a failure of leadership and it has been a failure across the board, imo. The Presdient downplayed this virus for sure, and perhaps there were things that could have been done to slow the spread of this thing that were found in the playbook. But no one was ready for some large scale fight against this as of late February - see the thing about Pelosi and Chinatown.
I just don't get the singular focus on Trump as being responsible for this. The whole of the western world is basically in the same shape.
As far as history - I think a whole lot of our interpretation (including mine) will be changed once we know a great deal more about the virus and from the standpoint of hindsight.

First let me thank you Jim for you engagement on the record (though it's the kind of thoughtful response I'd expect from you).

And to be clear, my view on the role of Trump (and, to be clear, his administration - not solely the president though we know he leads in a certain style that demands adherence to his viewpoint) does not include the idea that Trump is "responsible for every death", I don't think that's a fair assessment and I would never say that.

From what I have read about PREDICT, the elements of the program that provide forward study of emerging pathogens had all but been shutdown by last year - the remaining elements of the program included educational outreach were still functioning to the end of the funding cycle, but ending of funding meant the end of the program (once remaining funds were exhausted). I think you're right that it's not solely attributable to the White House, but it hasn't appeared in any Trump budget request and the political leadership within the agency (run by the White House) became less interested in the program according to an October 2019 piece in the NYT . . . that I actually started a thread about in October of last year on the PDB.

Scientists Were Hunting for the Next Ebola. Now the U.S. Has Cut Off Their Funding. (Published 2019)

Predict, a government research program, sought to identify animal viruses that might infect humans and to head off new pandemics.

www.nytimes.com

I know that some have suggested that the disbanding of the pandemic team at the NSC/White House was really more of a reorganization but I think that's questionable both as a matter of the record and in Trump's own words. He was asked specifically about the decision to no longer carry those duties and he said something to the extent of "I don't want to pay people to be around if I don't need them - we know who they are we can call them when we need them" (my characterization not an exact quote - I'll see if I can find it).

My point is that there is a cumulative effect of all of these things. An anti-science, anti-global viewpoint combined with a misplaced sense that this was not something that America would have to deal with, and topped off with a conviction that messaging alone mitigate economic harm have made this experience worse than it could have been.

Even if you accept that it's unlikely we could have predicted this particular virus and the timing of the outbreak (I'll certainly agree that was next to impossible), the US should have pivoted to a preparedness posture not later than mid-February. The initial travel limitations re: China were appropriate and bought us a little bit of time (more time could have been bought with additional travel limitations in other outbreak areas but presumably those were too economically disruptive) - time that could have been used to activate a federal response, to acquire equipment, to launch production to meet shortfalls.

Trump disbanded NSC pandemic unit that experts had praised

WASHINGTON (AP) — Public health and national security experts shake their heads when President Donald Trump says the coronavirus "came out of nowhere" and “blindsided the world...

apnews.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/trump-says-he-can-bring-in-coronavirus-experts-quickly-the-experts-say-it-is-not-that-simple/2020/02/27/6ce214a6-5983-11ea-8753-73d96000faae_story.html

 

[The moose]

You know, folks, just last night I had the creepiest deja vu moment.

I was at my home workstation in a back room and my wife was watching the news in the living room.

I heard an unmistakable voice saying, "What did this president know and when did he know it?"

It was Nancy Pelosi, of course, repeating her go to line AGAIN, this time about the coronavirus.

Two years ago, I heard the same thing about Russia Collusion from Pelosi.

Last year, I heard the same thing about Ukraine Impeachment, from Pelosi.

I do wish the voice of the "loyal" opposition would at least try to find some new wording.

Getting pretty pathetic around here.

 

[Lapaz]

Suggestion: Fact check first, THEN post.

“They have to get the shots. The vaccinations are so important,” Trump told reporters as he left the White House. “This is really going around now. They have to get their shots.”

Trump, once a vaccine skeptic, changes his tune amid measles outbreaks

"They have to get the shots. The vaccinations are so important," President Trump told reporters as he left the White House.

www.statnews.com

I said that I needed to fact check everything, but he was until very recently an anti-vaxer. He was a 70 year old anti-vaxer, and just recently learned their value. Talk about a SLOW learner! I doubt his IQ breaks 100! This is the man that Republicans still support.

 

[Dadsdream]

I said that I needed to fact check everything, but he was until very recently an anti-vaxer. He was a 70 year old anti-vaxer, and just recently learned their value. Talk about a SLOW learner! I doubt his IQ breaks 100! This is the man that Republicans still support.

Yes, fact checking first then posting would be prudent.

 

[Saintamaniac]

It's not nice to talk about other posters in a third-person, school girly gossip sort of way.

It's not smart to completely ignore facts because they go against your narrative and come from a source that you don't agree with but you do it anyway. It demonstrates unintelligent behavior and indicates that you don't have a desire for truthful discussion. Have a nice day, DD.

 

[Dadsdream]

Our good friends at MoveOn.org (Founded in 1998 to oppose the Clinton impeachment, now funded by George Soros as a far-left mouthpiece.) have now issued a petition calling for an end coverage of the president's daily coronavirus briefings.

More than 120,000 people have signed a petition calling on news broadcasters to stop providing live coverage of the White House's briefings on the coronavirus outbreak.

Accusing President Donald Trump of using each briefing as a "live campaign rally," the petition, which has been published on MoveOn.org, asks CNN, ABC, CBS NBC, NPR and Fox News to consider whether it is necessary to livestream the COVID-19 press conferences in full.

"President Trump is blatantly using the news organizations' extensive, live coverage to freely campaign for a second term," the petition claims. "It is wrong and dangerous to provide so much unfettered airtime to someone who is happily, shamelessly spreading terrible, damaging misinformation that is already costing fellow Americans their lives."

Over 200,000 Call for End to Live Coverage of Trump Coronavirus Briefings

"Leave the President's insults, false braggadocio, and outright lies on the editing room floor, where they belong," the petition states.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Saintamaniac]

Trump lies so often and freely that major networks should no longer cover him. I hope that the networks do stop giving him a platform to lie directly to the American people. If he's sending his folks out to lie, they should no longer be covered also. There's never a "good" time to lie to people. It's damn sure not time to continually lie during pandemic. Lying only makes a bad situation worst.