All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (20 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[JimEverett]

So what would be the metric for classifying poverty? Do we still use the current definition of poverty? If so, why would people losing their jobs suddenly result in increases in death? If what you are positing holds water, wouldn't we have already seen a substantial rise in poverty related deaths? I mean that's essentially what you are arguing, no? So basically, you are saying that because people will be losing jobs and therefore have no income, resulting in poverty and because they are in now in poverty, death will follow. I don't agree whether it's short term or long term. I believe that the majority of people who suddenly find themselves in poverty will not be dying or killing themselves. Trump actually suggested that this would be the case yesterday when he claimed that millions of people will be committing suicide. Are you actually agreeing with that?

Yes, I agree with it. There are multiple studies that tend to agree with it. For example: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110616193627.htm

I get the idea that a temporary rise in poverty might not equal something like a 1 for 1 death rate following previous projections. But it is also the case that no one has really set a timetable for returning to normalcy who are opposed to opening things back up. And we also cannot be sure the economy is more like a spigot right now or will be in a month or two or more.

 

[SystemShock]

Poverty isn't transmitted via touch or being sneezed on or being in the vicinity of the poor. Being alive and broke is much more preferable than being dead or clinging to life waiting on a ventilator to become available. Ask anyone who has lost a loved one or in danger of losing a loved one or friend to COVID-19 and I guarantee you that they will tell you they'd rather be alive and broke. If one solution involves death, the other solution is always preferable.

On the other hand, it is easy to stop the transmission of a virus with about $2 worth of protection (paper mask, latex gloves, dab of hand sanitizer here and there) and good habits, whereas generations of people go through poverty and never overcome it.

But this continues to go from extreme to the other.

 

[Beach Friends]

One thing is for certain, no matter what course we take Trump will be blamed for the consequences. That's not totally unusual, but with Trump it is just crazy

For instance, someone dies after eating fish tank cleaner and the media at the very least strongly implies that it is Trump's fault.

 

[dtc]

I don't issue reprimands. I said, "Bad form."
If he wants to throw traffic to Ahmed Baba, that's his choice.
The guy's named his feed after a Muslim scholar from a centuries back.
Might want to consider that when you're talking about Easter.

penalty.

15 yards for redundant pivoting and an additional 5 yards for attempted redirection.

 

[Farb]

No one likes unknowns. At least give us a target date. If it works out, great. If not, then we all know this is something new to everyone, and we go back into our houses and shutter our business. Humans need to see something at the end of the tunnel otherwise, they lose hope.
I have no problem putting a target date out there. We get new data hourly on this thing so altering plans based on new data is a good thing.
If you have a lot of businesses go under, you will also a spike in suicide rates, that has always happened with economic downturns. This could be unprecedented in the down turn.

 

[Joe Okc]

One thing is for certain, no matter what course we take Trump will be blamed for the consequences. That's not totally unusual, but with Trump it is just crazy

For instance, someone dies after eating fish tank cleaner and the media at the very least strongly implies that it is Trump's fault.

No truer statement has ever been said...

 

[The moose]

All the distinctions you're making are accurate and relevant. The examples I used were just illustrations of risk acceptance as opposed to apples-to-apples comparisons to coronavirus, but you're right that they're not all societal risks we are forced to encounter. I think the fact that you can choose to accept a risk and be compensated for it makes a big difference, and I should have pointed that out.

The flu example is actually the best match -- we know people will die from the flu every year, and we know we could prevent the spread of the flu by keeping everyone home, but we don't keep people home because we accept the fact that X number of people dying every year is a sacrifice we'll make to keep the economy going and/or keep living our lives.

The point I was making is that it's easier to accept that risk with the flu every year because we roughly know the range of what "X" is going to be with the flu year in and year out. The numbers we have thus far tell us that without preventative measures, "X" with coronavirus would be much bigger than "X" with the flu because (1) there is no vaccine, (2) it's more contagious than the flu, and (3) it's been more deadly than the flu. So until we can get a better grip on what "X" will be with coronavirus, it seems we are justified in taking rather extreme measures to prevent it from spreading.

I agree with out the x known I really don't care to take the risk. I don't care if my back is not helping this economy that is not looking out for me. If they were looking out for us they would have not dropped the ball so bad. We need more study and actual facts.

I do things all the time with extreme risk with no financial gain. Hell love my motorcycle and other stuff people won't do. For me the it is well worth the risk and I do as much as I can to be safe.

With this we still truly don't know what that is we need to do. What supplies are to help are slim.

Had a huge box of masks that i gave to all the older people I know till I had no more last week.

Don't regret that one bit I have not felt that good in a long time.

 

[dtc]

Yes, I agree with it. There are multiple studies that tend to agree with it. For example: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110616193627.htm

I get the idea that a temporary rise in poverty might not equal something like a 1 for 1 death rate following previous projections. But it is also the case that no one has really set a timetable for returning to normalcy who are opposed to opening things back up. And we also cannot be sure the economy is more like a spigot right now or will be in a month or two or more.

We haven't really ever concerned ourselves with the effects of poverty before and certainly not in any recent time. Trump's administration seems to have never even considered a policy that addresses the sort of poverty that could result in death.

I'm glad to see you show concern for the ill effects of poverty and suggest maybe as we go forward it would be good to try and take measures to relieve those problems prior to the middle of the next pandemic.

I'm sure the poor would appreciate it.

 

[dtc]

One thing is for certain, no matter what course we take Trump will be blamed for the consequences. That's not totally unusual, but with Trump it is just crazy

For instance, someone dies after eating fish tank cleaner and the media at the very least strongly implies that it is Trump's fault.

"the media"

Do you think Trump should be telling people that there's a drug that he's sure would be good to treat this when the doctors disagree?


I think that's the point. And, for sure, anyone dumb enough to eat fish tank cleaner might just bear the responsibility of their actions. That said, for someone with a feeble mind who hears Trump touting chemicals by name, it's not surprising.

 

[Saintamaniac]

We haven't really ever concerned ourselves with the effects of poverty before and certainly not in any recent time. Trump's administration seems to have never even considered a policy that addresses the sort of poverty that could result in death.

I'm glad to see you show concern for the ill effects of poverty and suggest maybe as we go forward it would be good to try and take measures to relieve those problems prior to the middle of the next pandemic.

I'm sure the poor would appreciate it.

Right. It's actually a stance that says "Poverty causes death and therefore, something needs to be done about poverty." In fact, poverty or an increase in poverty is such a problem of increased death toll as a result of new poverty is actually worth the risk of further exacerbating the pandemic. This doesn't seem on its face to be a very Republican or conservative view point.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

One thing is for certain, no matter what course we take Trump will be blamed for the consequences. That's not totally unusual, but with Trump it is just crazy

For instance, someone dies after eating fish tank cleaner and the media at the very least strongly implies that it is Trump's fault.

"The toxic ingredient they consumed was not the medication form of chloroquine, used to treat malaria in humans. Instead, it was an ingredient listed on a parasite treatment for fish.

The man's wife told NBC News she'd watched televised briefings during which President Trump talked about the potential benefits of chloroquine. Even though no drugs are approved to prevent or treat COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus, some early research suggests it may be useful as a therapy.

The name "chloroquine" resonated with the man's wife, who asked that her name not be used to protect the family's privacy. She'd used it previously to treat her koi fish.

"I saw it sitting on the back shelf and thought, 'Hey, isn't that the stuff they're talking about on TV?'"

The couple — both in their 60s and potentially at higher risk for complications of the virus — decided to mix a small amount of the substance with a liquid and drink it as a way to prevent the coronavirus.

"We were afraid of getting sick," she said."

I mean... the woman said it she saw it and they decided to try it because they saw it on TV. The person TV hyping it up was Trump. The part of the story that implies Trump has some level of culpability is the woman's own words.

A man died after ingesting a substance he thought would protect him from coronavirus

The man and his wife thought the ingredient, used to treat sick fish, could prevent the disease.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[donato]

'Walking Dead' Actor 'Disgusted' After Being Charged $9,000 For Test That Doctors Weren't Even Allowed To Process

'Walking Dead' actor Daniel Newman had some scathing words for the way the global pandemic is being handled in the US.

www.comicsands.com

 

[Beach Friends]

I mean... the woman said it she saw it and they decided to try it because they saw it on TV. The person TV hyping it up was Trump. The part of the story that implies Trump has some level of culpability is the woman's own words.

A man died after ingesting a substance he thought would protect him from coronavirus

The man and his wife thought the ingredient, used to treat sick fish, could prevent the disease.

www.nbcnews.com

Really hard to protect people who don't have the cognitive capability to realize that a doctor should be in the loop.

 

[Beach Friends]

'Walking Dead' Actor 'Disgusted' After Being Charged $9,000 For Test That Doctors Weren't Even Allowed To Process

'Walking Dead' actor Daniel Newman had some scathing words for the way the global pandemic is being handled in the US.

www.comicsands.com

They couldn't find Sean Penn?

 

[dtc]

Really hard to protect people who don't have the cognitive capability to realize that a doctor should be in the loop.

I know, but don't you agree that the POTUS shouldn't be the source for the stupidity that prompted them to eat a cleaning product?

When Obama overreacted with the cop issue and had the "beer summit" were you not peeved he had put his foot in his mouth?

 

[donato]

They couldn't find Sean Penn?

What does that have to do with anything? Do you think he is lying? Did you read the article? Why are you even here if you're just going to troll?

 

[Beach Friends]

I know, but don't you agree that the POTUS shouldn't be the source for the stupidity that prompted them to eat a cleaning product?

When Obama overreacted with the cop issue and had the "beer summit" were you not peeved he had put his foot in his mouth?

I don't know brother. It's tough to accept that we can't talk about drugs look promising because people are going to go through their cleaning supplies to see if they have anything with chemicals that sound somewhat like what was mentioned.

I feel sorry for those people, I really do. But, that wasnt Trump's fault.

 

[Saintamaniac]

What does that have to do with anything? Do you think he is lying? Did you read the article? Why are you even here if you're just going to troll?

Look, if people are stupid enough to believe anything that trump says at this point, then they are entitled to what they get for believing him.

Also, who was your reply in response to?