All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (26 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[Humperdoo]

Check out pappadeaux, they have a few in Houston, pretty good (if) you like rich food (butter sauces etc)

They’re great. Agreed.

 

[Lapaz]

Supply is the real reason.

We just don’t have the tests.

Here in Houston there was a multi hour line for the one drive thru testing center that finally opened. Others being delayed due to lack of supplies. Which was on the heels of only being able to test around 39 people a day. Unfortunately, in the vast majority of areas, testing all but the most symptomatic is still infeasible.

What is really concerning is we are about two weeks behind Italy, with more cases and a greater growth pattern, and while that might be reflective of the disparity in testing, Italy experienced insane exponential growth over the following ten days. While we look on pace to surpass that. While also taking slower steps than Italy did. While potentially having an even larger supply crisis looming.

I agree that the real reason we don't test much more is due to limited supply of test kits and logistics of evaluating the results. It just irks me when they tell us that it wouldn't be much better if we could exhaustively test. Have we even asked for help from the WHO to get more tests? It is not too late despite how wide spread the disease has become, because if you combine self quarantines with exhaustive testing, most vectors could be eliminated. The Chinese seem to have done it, but you can't do it without the information obtained by testing. I'm convinced that it would drastically reduce the spread.

There was a man on CNN a little while ago that was on the Princess cruise. He had symptoms for less than 10 days, including a fever for only 2 days, and then a dry cough thereafter, but he tested positive for almost 29 days. China reported that 80% of it's cases were infected by asymptomatic people. Extensive testing would alleviate both of these situations. Without these tests, many people would think they have recovered or not know they were infected, and then go infect people. I know we are hopelessly unprepared to do the exhaustive testing, but used in conjunction with distancing and other practices, it would quickly get this pandemic under control. We would not eliminate the spread completely, but our medical system would be able to handle it, and we would much quickly revert to normal.

Today, without these exhaustive tests, this pandemic and quarantines should last much longer, however we can't stand the amount of time that would be needed. I think as soon as we have enough protective equipment, ventilators and ICU beds, then I think all protective orders will be removed, so most of us will return to normal lives, and then the virus will start spreading again, but the medical system will be more prepared to handle the vast infections. Even though the medical system will be more prepared, this will cause this virus to spread like the seasonal flu, and since it is more lethal, then more people will die than would otherwise die if we exhaustively tested to squash the spread, but that's probably what will happen.

 

[Humperdoo]

DD speaking the truth.

 

[Heathen]

There's a good chance that many we know or even we ourselves will get the virus eventually. Hope not of course, but it starts to just become math at some point.

Isnt it sad (and scary now) that our health system discourages getting to the doctor for those who can't afford health insurance or don't have it? You literally have millions who won't get tested because they fear the crushing debt that will come with it. So they will risk their lives and the lives of others that they may spread the virus to as a result:

$35k in debt over Coronavirus treatment..no insurance

 

[Heathen]

If it is found this was done intentionally for any reason, then global retaliation to the point they are set back to horse and buggy and if the chinese people don't want to be a part of that, then they need to over throw their government.

So punish the Chinese people if their government leaked a biological weapon that killed thousands of their own?

And let me clarify, we don't know if this was negligence or happenstance yet. Maybe a combination.

 

[First Time Poster]

DD speaking the truth.

I disagree. Crisis management is a key part, fundamentally important even, part of their job and if someone is forking up we don't need to wait "until the dust settles" to ask critical questions. These politicians are absolutely able to walk and chew gum at the same time, and if they aren't, then that needs to be exposed and put on the record so the voting populace can make a better informed voting choice, if that issue matters (and it should).

I don't understand the need to create a safety net for politicians handling of a crisis, particularly President Trump. President Bush got killed for his handling of Katrina. To the point, where that is now a moniker for forking up a crisis: "This is _____'s Katrina." I don't remember anyone saying, "Let's wait until the 9th Ward is rebuilt before we criticize anyone over the response." I don't remember New Orleanians or Gulf Coast residents saying, "Hey, chill on the criticism until our cities are rebuilt." No, they forked up and we wanted to know why while debris sat on a slab.

Elected officials (including Trump) applied for these jobs. How they handle local, national and global crisis is germane to the position they hold. They should absolutely be able to lead and manage the crisis while simultaneously answering questions about deficient response to it. These crisis don't have timelines. With Trump, this pandemic is going to last well into the election and past it. He is reapplying to keep this job for four more years. How he handles this, responds to critique and navigates the complexity of it...matters. If he can't handle it, I need to know now. Not years from now.

When that tarp came off the Hard Rock and everyone realized/was reminded that HUMAN BEINGS were still left in that building, a microphone and tape recorder quickly found a way to Mayor Cantrell's face. I'm not exactly happy with her answers or response to that situation but, in true black people fashion, I wish, I WISH her response would have been, "Umm now is not the time to criticize or ask questions. Let's be respectful while this crisis is ongoing." Nah fam. Y'all forking up and we aren't waiting to ask why.

My take, my opinion.

 

[Heathen]

Im fine with Trump being blamed for downplaying this because he should be. This isn't how leaders act. He essentially is just a figurehead and ignorant cheerleader for his admin's policies.

I think this should be, in a broader sense, a wake up call about the state of the nation in general. Fragmented healthcare system scrambling to get its act together and we haven't even seen brosd devastation yet, layoffs galore, workers protections in certain industries nonexistent..Having to rely on citizen based mutual aid forces city by city...

We really weren't prepared in any sense for something like this. We need to among other things think about how our citizens can be better protected from events like these in the future and that includes talking about what we want out of our government.

We can't be the nation that relies on gofundmes in times of crisis..

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

NO/La got caught with its pants down before Katrina even though there were ample reports that we were particularly vulnerable
I think we’ve learned our lesson to some extent and have better warning/evacuation systems in place

I think we probably have much better intelligence systems in place post 9/11 to make up for the tremendous intelligence miss we had that allowed 9/11 to happen
Politically the response has been a mixed bag (still fighting a war against people who did not attack us)

SARS/Ebola were our wake-up all and we still slept through the alarm - actually it seems like we threw the alarm clock away while it was ringing

 

[Beach Friends]

Im fine with Trump being blamed for downplaying this because he should be. This isn't how leaders act. He essentially is just a figurehead and ignorant cheerleader for his admin's policies.

I think this should be, in a broader sense, a wake up call about the state of the nation in general. Fragmented healthcare system scrambling to get its act together and we haven't even seen brosd devastation yet, layoffs galore, workers protections in certain industries nonexistent..Having to rely on citizen based mutual aid forces city by city...

We really weren't prepared in any sense for something like this. We need to among other things think about how our citizens can be better protected from events like these in the future and that includes talking about what we want out of our government.

We can't be the nation that relies on gofundmes in times of crisis..

I think we should have been preparing for this eventuality for decades. It has been entirely foreseeable and it is a matter of national security.

I recently listened to a podcast discussing the cold war and the nuclear arms race. We either had or currently have (can't recall which) 700 nuclear warheads dedicated to Moscow alone. Not 7. Not 70. 700. That's obviously insane.

Can you imagine how many N95 masks we could have stockpiled for the cost of building, maintaining and manning just one nuclear weapon?

We have had military base closures all over the nation. Some of those bases would have been ideal for establishing regional contingency hospitals. The initial costs would have been relatively low, as there were plenty of nice, open buildings that could have been converted.

Hell, in Mississippi alone you could establish Camp Shelby in the south and Camp McCain in the north as contingent medical facilities.

It's just unimaginable that hospitals are having to now ask citizens to donate N95 masks that they bought last month off of Amazon.

 

[Heathen]

Germany

I think we should have been preparing for this eventuality for decades. It has been entirely foreseeable and it is a matter of national security.

I recently listened to a podcast discussing the cold war and the nuclear arms race. We either had or currently have (can't recall which) 700 nuclear warheads dedicated to Moscow alone. Not 7. Not 70. 700. That's obviously insane.

Can you imagine how many N95 masks we could have stockpiled for the cost of building, maintaining and manning just one nuclear weapon?

We have had military base closures all over the nation. Some of those bases would have been ideal for establishing regional contingency hospitals. The initial costs would have been relatively low, as there were plenty of nice, open buildings that could have been converted.

Hell, in Mississippi alone you could establish Camp Shelby in the south and Camp McCain in the north as contingent medical facilities.

It's just unimaginable that hospitals are having to now ask citizens to donate N95 masks that they bought last month off of Amazon.

I agree with all of this..And just to reaffirm what you're saying in a different way, we have billions -- probably trillions, dedicated to wartime effort, but aren't prepared for helping our citizens during a pandemic. That says a lot about our 'prerogatives'.

And I want to say I'm not at all downplaying the need to be militarily prepared. I most certainly hold that in very, very high regard. But we're looking very incompetent right now. It'd be nice if we could all in both parties and independents have a roundtable on the 'state of affairs' and see how we could all be in the very least more prepared for the next time this happens.

My home state of Mississippi is already up to 207 cases

 

[Optimus Prime]

Any recourse for these people?
=========================

PARIS (AP) — Young German adults hold “corona parties” and cough toward older people.

A Spanish man leashes a goat to go for a walk to skirt confinement orders.

From France to Florida to Australia, kitesurfers, college students and others crowd the beaches.

Their defiance of lockdown mandates and scientific advice to fight the coronavirus pandemic has prompted crackdowns by authorities on people trying to escape cabin fever brought on by virus restrictions.

In some cases, the virus rebels resist — threatening police as officials express outrage over public gatherings that could spread the virus.

“Some consider they’re little heroes when they break the rules,” French Interior Minister Christophe Castaner said. “Well, no. You’re an imbecile, and especially a threat to yourself.”.........

Virus rebels from France to Florida flout lockdown practices

PARIS (AP) — Young German adults hold “corona parties" and cough toward older people. A Spanish man leashes a goat to go for a walk to skirt confinement orders.

apnews.com

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Any recourse for these people?
=========================

PARIS (AP) — Young German adults hold “corona parties” and cough toward older people.

A Spanish man leashes a goat to go for a walk to skirt confinement orders.

From France to Florida to Australia, kitesurfers, college students and others crowd the beaches.

Their defiance of lockdown mandates and scientific advice to fight the coronavirus pandemic has prompted crackdowns by authorities on people trying to escape cabin fever brought on by virus restrictions.

In some cases, the virus rebels resist — threatening police as officials express outrage over public gatherings that could spread the virus.

“Some consider they’re little heroes when they break the rules,” French Interior Minister Christophe Castaner said. “Well, no. You’re an imbecile, and especially a threat to yourself.”.........

Virus rebels from France to Florida flout lockdown practices

PARIS (AP) — Young German adults hold “corona parties" and cough toward older people. A Spanish man leashes a goat to go for a walk to skirt confinement orders.

apnews.com

Thought about this for awhile - I really don’t know what the penalty should be - or even if there should be a penalty

 

[Joe Okc]

AS I posted on the Biden thread... If the Primaries were to start all over again today.. I promise that we would see different results... Sanders, Tulsi and Buttigeig would be way above Biden... I don;t see him being the candidate to take this crisis by the nose and confronting it.. I think Tulsi and Buttigeig are better qualified for some reason.. But Sanders stance on Medicare for all is gonna grow by leaps and bounds now... Watch in the polls.

 

[JimEverett]

Thought about this for awhile - I really don’t know what the penalty should be - or even if there should be a penalty

Without thinking too long ,the only state-sanctioned penalty I can think of would be/should be if someone who knows they have virus intentionally does something to try to spread it to another.

Apart from that, let them deal with a society that is on edge about this thing.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Without thinking too long ,the only state-sanctioned penalty I can think of would be/should be if someone who knows they have virus intentionally does something to try to spread it to another.

Apart from that, let them deal with a society that is on edge about this thing.

could there be a case for reckless endangerment if it was found later that they were a carrier?
thinking of the Rudy Gobert incident

 

[JimEverett]

could there be a case for reckless endangerment if it was found later that they were a carrier?
thinking of the Rudy Gobert incident

Maybe - I just hope no one ends up being prosecuted for gathering together or something like that.

 

[Lapaz]

We’ll probably keep cases below 100k, but next flu season will probably spread even more than the seasonal flu, because we don’t have a vaccine. If the seasonal flu sickens 50M people in the US in a normal season, even with a vaccine, then I think more than 100M will get it this Fall. If so, we better make sure that we have at least 10M ICU beds and ventilators and many more PEDs by next Fall. Also lots of sanitizer.

 

[Dadsdream]

Nah fam. Y'all forking up and we aren't waiting to ask why.

Nah fam? Is that a village in Vietnam?
You were doing just fine until you turned your message into a "y'all" versus "we" thing.
Big turnoff.
Turned it from a neutral observation into a bashing.
Sad panda.