All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (2 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[SaintForLife]

I've watched Tucker's show, as I promised you back in January I would. The shows I watched (circa 1/22, during impeachment) were styled more like a nightly entertainment show like Trevor Noah's or Colbert's shows -- where he spliced together clips and mocked them -- than an informative news show. Many of the clips were mocking Democrats of color for what he was demonstrating as being extreme on race relations, which his viewers were implored to assume were representative of the entire "left" or "liberals." I've seen enough of his show to know that getting his viewers wound up about how ridiculous "the left" is over race relations is a big selling point for him. The fact that his show is viewed by many as informational, as opposed to entertainment, explains why I don't rely on TV -- from any political persuasion -- as a primary source of information.

In my post you responded to in saying I'm "incorrect" about Tucker, the only thing I said about Tucker is that part of his brand is magnifying division regarding race issues, which is true. I don't doubt that he's otherwise been critical of the Chinese government for a long time, and it's true that his coverage of coronavirus is not comparable to Hannity's and/or others on Fox in that he did not minimize the threat like they did. I was specifically not lumping Tucker with the other Fox personalities and rather chose to name him individually because he uses the racial division tactic more than anyone else that came to mind among those promoting the "Chinese Virus" controversy. And I had no idea until I literally just googled it the extent to which Tucker is making the "Chinese Virus" issue a crusade of his -- but of course, I'm not surprised.

There is a viewpoint that his broader game is getting his base of viewers riled up about social issues -- race, LGBTQ, immigration, etc. -- so they are too distracted to care that what the politicians they support are doing, including enacting fiscal policies that benefit corporations at the expense of the middle and lower class. Of course I can't say for sure whether that's true. But I think about all the people out there watching Tucker's segment on "Chinese Virus" who undoubtedly spent a good bit of their night being angry at the idea of "libs" thinking it's racist, and I wonder how many of those same people are about to lose their job and/or don't have access to testing and/or don't have or can't afford healthcare. I wonder if any of them are thinking back to Trump's big to-do about cutting healthcare regulations and CDC funding with a big stack of printed out regulations behind him, or if any of them know how much of the money from the 2018 tax bill that was supposed to trickle down to them from corporations actually went to stock buy-backs?

It may not be as sinister or complicated as what I just said; I have no idea, it's just what it looks like to me. What Tucker's motivations are -- helping Trump, helping Rs, ratings, etc. -- I really don't know. The point I'm making in my post -- which is clear as day to me -- is that the purpose of the "Chinese Virus" "controversy" is to distract from what's going on. We should feel certain that's at least why Trump is doing it. I mean, here we are still talking about something that should have nothing to do with the pandemic and how we respond to it. Is it because it really matters, or because it gives "how's-your-401k guy" a reason to come out of hiding?

It's very ironic that you focus on that about Tucker, but you fail to see how many on the left see everything through the prism of race. It's almost hard to find a subject where the Democrats don't inject racism.

I've yet to see any examples of when someone criticizes illegal immigrants or the immigration system where they aren't labeled xenophobic or racist by the left. There is definitely racism that needs to be addressed like in the criminal justice system, but the Democrats use the accusation of racism to divide as well. It's similar to how the Republicans use the subject of abortion.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

The main reason to stop using the xenophobic language is bc not doing so continues to hurt our citizens- there are a great many Americans of Asian descent- many of those have become targets of abuse bc of fear and ignorance about the virus
It wasn’t cool when the Irish were targeted
It wasn’t cool when Jews were targeted
It wasn’t cool when Italians were targeted
And it’s not cool now

 

[Beach Friends]

Arresting yes - and releasing again and I have seen no proof of execution. AND that arrest resulted in a MASSIVE response from the chineese people...

So an entire people are evil because an emsig administrator does something wrong?

What do you call someone who put children in cages with bare concreate floors like they were dogs ?

There are evil persons everywhere but to call an entire people or country evil is naive and wrong

I am sure the Chinese government met its goal of making "a profound statement to the officials in Wuhan" by making those arrests and announcing it was taking "legal measures" against those doctors who were causing "civil disruption" by discussing the virus.

Do you not think the people of China understand the language of their own tyrannical government?

I am not against the people of China. I have neighbors who are Chinese and they are the best neighbors anyone could ask for. But their government is a murderous regime that doesn't have any problem suppressing human rights.

 

[JimEverett]

Japanese flu drug 'clearly effective' in treating coronavirus, says China

Shares in Fujifilm Toyama Chemical, which developed favipiravir, surged after praise by Chinese official

www.theguardian.com

Medical authorities in China have said a drug used in Japan to treat new strains of influenza appeared to be effective in coronavirus patients, Japanese media said on Wednesday.

Zhang Xinmin, an official at China’s science and technology ministry, said favipiravir, developed by a subsidiary of Fujifilm, had produced encouraging outcomes in clinical trials in Wuhan and Shenzhen involving 340 patients.

“It has a high degree of safety and is clearly effective in treatment,” Zhang told reporters on Tuesday.

Guess these researchers ignored the message of some MCB posters of not mentioning flu and coronavirus together.

 

[samiam5211]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China

I mean China. You understand my point, your just trying to get to me to a point where you talking point will make sense when you type it. No thanks.

China is a word that could mean many things. I’ve already given you multiple choices in a different post.

Do you believe that every individual person in China should be held responsible for the Covid-19 pandemic?

Even those who were the first to be victims of the virus?

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

It's very ironic that you focus on that about Tucker, but you fail to see how many on the left see everything through the prism of race. It's almost hard to find a subject where the Democrats don't inject racism.

I've yet to see any examples of when someone criticizes illegal immigrants or the immigration system where they aren't labeled xenophobic or racist by the left. There is definitely racism that needs to be addressed like in the criminal justice system, but the Democrats use the accusation of racism to divide as well. It's similar to how the Republicans use the subject of abortion.

Difference is that race does actually permeate everything is American life - unlike abortion
The country was built on slavery and immigration- that’s pretty much indisputable.
Inequalities in housing, education, incarceration, employment, et al are systemic and continuing
Until those systemic inequalities are addressed/redressed, racism will remain a fact of American life, and charges of ‘injecting racism’ will continue to be toothless and banal

 

[SaintForLife]

It's no coincidence that the Coronavirus came from China. It was inevitable due to specific practices in China. This is from a 2007 article from Clinical Microbiology Reviews:

Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) coronavirus (SARS-CoV) is a novel virus that caused the first major pandemic of the new millennium (89, 180, 259). The rapid economic growth in southern China has led to an increasing demand for animal proteins including those from exotic game food animals such as civets. Large numbers and varieties of these wild game mammals in overcrowded cages and the lack of biosecurity measures in wet markets allowed the jumping of this novel virus from animals to human (353, 376). Its capacity for human-to-human transmission, the lack of awareness in hospital infection control, and international air travel facilitated the rapid global dissemination of this agent.

...Coronaviruses are well known to undergo genetic recombination (375), which may lead to new genotypes and outbreaks. The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. The possibility of the reemergence of SARS and other novel viruses from animals or laboratories and therefore the need for preparedness should not be ignored.

https://cmr.asm.org/content/cmr/20/4/660.full.pdf

 

[efil4]

Where are your proof that China did anything wrong and why do you call them evil?

this is where i digress.

China is responsible for this. they now have had 2 viruses have originated in China. Sars, and now Covid19.

After the CFR w/ SARS, you would think the Government had taken notes. Instead they ignored the early warning signals and allowed the virus to exponentially replicate and infect.

I hold them responsible for this and the rest of the world should as well. While their measures were swift and decisive once they realized the cat was out the bag, it wasnt enough to protect the world from this.

That is unacceptable to me.

 

[Farb]

China is a word that could mean many things. I’ve already given you multiple choices in a different post.

Do you believe that every individual person in China should be held responsible for the Covid-19 pandemic?

Even those who were the first to be victims of the virus?

Then I would suggest that you use whatever definition makes more sense to you.

Do I think we should go and punish Mr. Wang on market street in WuHan, personally? Nope.

Do I thing we should punish the government that Mr. Wang lives under, yes I do. I think Chinese government should be crippled and punished depending on what we find out to be true with this global shirts show that they started.
Will this have a direct effect on Mr. Wang? I would suppose so. Do I care, not really.

 

[SaintForLife]

Where are your proof that China did anything wrong and why do you call them evil?

 

[Farb]

Where are your proof that China did anything wrong and why do you call them evil?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50511063

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51403795



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China

 

[samiam5211]

Then I would suggest that you use whatever definition makes more sense to you.

Do I think we should go and punish Mr. Wang on market street in WuHan, personally? Nope.

Do I thing we should punish the government that Mr. Wang lives under, yes I do. I think Chinese government should be crippled and punished depending on what we find out to be true with this global shirts show that they started.
Will this have a direct effect on Mr. Wang? I would suppose so. Do I care, not really.

I don’t disagree that the there should be consequences for the Chinese government for this pandemic.

I think right now, we should expect the Chinese government to give up their production capacity to produce things that are going to suffer critical shortages in areas hit worst by the pandemic.

I believe that the liberty protected by western governments has resulted in the consumption that has fueled their Industrialization. Those who have gained the most from the industrialization of China and control the Communist Party have an obligation to come to our aid during this crisis.

The Chinese people could be the heroes of this pandemic if we just let them.

We are in a bind, and at a moment like this our military superiority is what puts us at the most risk. This is the weakest we will ever be. We should be careful not to threaten anyone right now.

 

[TaylorB]

It's very ironic that you focus on that about Tucker, but you fail to see how many on the left see everything through the prism of race. It's almost hard to find a subject where the Democrats don't inject racism.

I've yet to see any examples of when someone criticizes illegal immigrants or the immigration system where they aren't labeled xenophobic or racist by the left. There is definitely racism that needs to be addressed like in the criminal justice system, but the Democrats use the accusation of racism to divide as well. It's similar to how the Republicans use the subject of abortion.

My posts today were about why I think Trump and Tucker are calling this "Chinese Virus" -- not because they're racist, but because they're deliberately distracting on the virus by provoking a conversation they know will happen. The issues you raised in response are not related to that point. If I were addressing those unrelated issues, I would, at that point, assess whether it's appropriate to start my post with a preamble acknowledging how much fault should be allocated to each "side" on the general topic of race relations. The fact that people feel the way you feel about Democrats is exactly why what Tucker and Trump are doing is effective. My point wasn't about whether one side's reaction was more justified than the other's, just that it's exactly what is intended by the use of the phrase.

 

[Farb]

I don’t disagree that the there should be consequences for the Chinese government for this pandemic.

I think right now, we should expect the Chinese government to give up their production capacity to produce things that are going to suffer critical shortages in areas hit worst by the pandemic.

I believe that the liberty protected by western governments has resulted in the consumption that has fueled their Industrialization. Those who have gained the most from the industrialization of China and control the Communist Party have an obligation to come to our aid during this crisis.

The Chinese people could be the heroes of this pandemic if we just let them.

We are in a bind, and at a moment like this our military superiority is what puts us at the most risk. This is the weakest we will ever be. We should be careful not to threaten anyone right now.

I agree with just about everything you said here.

Except the Chinese people being heroes if we just let them. How are we stopping the Chinese people from doing anything? They can be heroes all they want, they just need to clear it with their oppressive and evil government.

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

I don't care in the least what anyone wants to call a virus, but I do think it's pretty helpful that if you hear someone mention "Chinese virus" in a social conversation, like "fake news" or red hats before it, you have an instant social cue that you should probably excuse yourself and find someone else in the room to talk to.

 

[samiam5211]

I agree with just about everything you said here.

Except the Chinese people being heroes if we just let them. How are we stopping the Chinese people from doing anything? They can be heroes all they want, they just need to clear it with their oppressive and evil government.

Or our President who claims he is great friends with the person who instructs the Chinese people, could ask his friend to instruct the Chinese people to make things that we will soon desperately need.

Instead, he’s trying to convince us it’s someone else’sfault.

 

[Farb]

Yes, because we also need to social distance from political and social opinions we don't agree with. That could really hurt your feels. Tolerance and diversity and all that, right?

What is a 'red hat'?

 

[Dragon]

The key word there i preliminary. As in we don't know yet.

Using the same standard should Trump be held responsible for this?

Silencing the experts at CDC by ordering them not to adress the public unless authorized by the White House?
Continuing to say that "everything was under control" and that "Everyone who wants to be tested, could be"?
Saying that people could go to work even when sick?
saying the virus was "very well under control in our country."

Trump is furious with the CDC for doing its job

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention apparently enraged President Donald Trump by warning about the risks of a coronavirus outbreak.

www.businessinsider.com

Trump Admin Reportedly Overruled CDC’s Coronavirus Advice for Seniors Not to Fly

The White House’s mismanagement of the coronavirus outbreak continues, as infighting and misinformation muddle the government’s response.

nymag.com