All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (4 Viewers)

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Maxp

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I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?
 

wardorican

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From the article:



Sure they didn't know how bad asymptomatic spread was, they also realized they had plenty of supply. It's to bad this is politized, because it's insane you guys are essentially arguing "The Noble Lie".

He made a huge misstep, and knowingly put lives at risk. I'll pass on the idol worship.

He also must shoulder some blame for the anti-mask movement. After all, his words have been weaponized more then once.

What seems to be the difference between us, is that I read the whole article. Heck, I actually looked at two or three sources of the same topic to get a more informed perspective.

You're focusing on snippets.

And maybe snippets is an appropriate thing, since that's how most Americans lazily get their information.

It's not idol worship. I'm pretty sure I sort of disagreed with his statement. I think I even had an argument with sammyvmpknight on SR about most Dr.'s having the argument about mask usage not being "perfect" because people don't know how to do a proper fit check, and they'd let their guard down, touch their mask, touch their face, etc... They were seeing it from their perspective of infectious disease in medical/lab settings.

However, as was already brought up, that quote starts with "as the weeks and months came by.." And even then, when he says there was plenty of supply, that was partially true. There were many stories of hospitals not having enough PPE, or having to change their protocols to maximize the use of their PPE. Then later people were encouraged to at least used cloth masks, not try to get surgical or N95 masks.

I agree it was a misstep, but it wasn't for a lack of science or any other reasons you've stated. He didn't knowingly put lives at risk. He didn't lie.
 

MT15

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This smear of Fauci is coming from both the far right and the far left. I get it why it’s coming from the far right, I do not understand why it’s coming from the far left though.

And it is a smear, it’s revisionist, to say the least.

Anyone who claims there was no shortage of masks at early stages of the pandemic is not being honest. We couldn’t get them in the hospital lab. We had to find or make our own cloth ones for months before the supply caught up.
 

DaveXA

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This smear of Fauci is coming from both the far right and the far left. I get it why it’s coming from the far right, I do not understand why it’s coming from the far left though.

And it is a smear, it’s revisionist, to say the least.

Anyone who claims there was no shortage of masks at early stages of the pandemic is not being honest. We couldn’t get them in the hospital lab. We had to find or make our own cloth ones for months before the supply caught up.
Yep, there was clearly a mask shortage early on. It took some time to get ramped up to levels sufficient enough to meet demand. I was pretty sure I didn't just imagine that.
 

GrandAdmiral

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zztop

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In other news

New York, Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania and New Jersey together reported 44% of the nation’s new COVID-19 infections, or nearly 197,500 new cases, in the latest available seven-day period, according to state health agency data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Total U.S. infections during the same week numbered more than 452,000.
 

samiam5211

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I've read both TX and FL governors banned "vaccine passports" what a shock
I don't think they will be able to actually enforce these laws. If a business refuses service to someone because they want proof of vaccination to protect their employees, good luck to the government trying to prosecute them.
 
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wardorican

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I don't think they will be able to actually enforce these laws. If a business refuses service to someone because they want proof of vaccination to protect their employees, good luck to the government trying to prosecute them.
Yeah, this is likely.

However, to be honest, what businesses or groups have floated or pushed the idea? I see it as a reasonable short term thing to ease restrictions faster for some, but that's it. But, I haven't seen a real push for them. But maybe I missed something. I don't read everything.

Much like the 'counties and cities can't fine people in FL for not wearing a mask' rule... Technically it said they can't 'collect fines'. So, some areas were like, ok, fine.. we're still going to levy fines, but we can't collect... for now.
 

MT15

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I think the airlines and cruise lines have a valid interest in using proof of vaccination. It can take the place of the Covid test right before the trip.
 

J-DONK

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This smear of Fauci is coming from both the far right and the far left. I get it why it’s coming from the far right, I do not understand why it’s coming from the far left though.

And it is a smear, it’s revisionist, to say the least.

Anyone who claims there was no shortage of masks at early stages of the pandemic is not being honest. We couldn’t get them in the hospital lab. We had to find or make our own cloth ones for months before the supply caught up.
It's not a "smear". Fauci said what he said. You see multiple paragraphs essays in this thread right now trying to justify it. Also, if you think the lab leak theory has a decent chance of being true. That really makes guys like Fauci look horrible. Fauci was a proponent of gain of function research, and apparently they bypassed federal oversight to fund the Wuhan lab. I would argue if anything Fauci has gotten far to much of a free pass. Fauci still labels lab leak as a conspiracy theory. It's not like he's lied before, and might be doing it again for self preservation.

I'll be honest. If you really look at the only (circumstantial) evidence available for the origin of the virus. It points to a lab leak.

1. U.S. cables talking about unsafe practices at the lab.
2. This lab was studying gain of function on the exact kind of bat coronaviruses that is covid-19.
3. Workers get sick at the lab before the outbreak with covid like symptoms.
4. China scrubbed early patient data.
5. China will not let the WHO, or anyone interview the researchers at the Wuhan lab.
6. No one can find a less contagious version of covid found before the outbreak. (For zoonotic origin to be true, this should exist.)

Why is anyone in America making excuses for China? It's on China to provide full cooperation, and transparency. If not, America, and the rest of the world SHOULD act like the worst case scenario happened. A military bioweapon was malicious released into their own population for plausible deniability.
 

wardorican

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It's not a "smear". Fauci said what he said. You see multiple paragraphs essays in this thread right now trying to justify it. Also, if you think the lab leak theory has a decent chance of being true. That really makes guys like Fauci look horrible. Fauci was a proponent of gain of function research, and apparently they bypassed federal oversight to fund the Wuhan lab. I would argue if anything Fauci has gotten far to much of a free pass. Fauci still labels lab leak as a conspiracy theory. It's not like he's lied before, and might be doing it again for self preservation.

I'll be honest. If you really look at the only (circumstantial) evidence available for the origin of the virus. It points to a lab leak.

1. U.S. cables talking about unsafe practices at the lab.
2. This lab was studying gain of function on the exact kind of bat coronaviruses that is covid-19.
3. Workers get sick at the lab before the outbreak with covid like symptoms.
4. China scrubbed early patient data.
5. China will not let the WHO, or anyone interview the researchers at the Wuhan lab.
6. No one can find a less contagious version of covid found before the outbreak. (For zoonotic origin to be true, this should exist.)

Why is anyone in America making excuses for China? It's on China to provide full cooperation, and transparency. If not, America, and the rest of the world SHOULD act like the worst case scenario happened. A military bioweapon was malicious released into their own population for plausible deniability.
Quite the pivot you took there.
 

J-DONK

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Quite the pivot you took there.
I've actually been consistent on this point.

This is from last week.

JDONK said:
]I haven't been a fan of Fauci since the mask debacle. He proved to me he would lie through his teeth, and put American lives at risk. Fauci was a proponent of gain of function research. He also states it wasn't a lab virus. It was an animal transmission, and then covid spent months circulating in China undetected. China has not produced proto-coronavirus samples when the virus should have been circulating in human populations for months. China has a lot of incentive to find this if it's true. It would kill the lab leak theory, and absolve them of some fault.
 

samiam5211

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It's not a "smear". Fauci said what he said. You see multiple paragraphs essays in this thread right now trying to justify it. Also, if you think the lab leak theory has a decent chance of being true. That really makes guys like Fauci look horrible. Fauci was a proponent of gain of function research, and apparently they bypassed federal oversight to fund the Wuhan lab. I would argue if anything Fauci has gotten far to much of a free pass. Fauci still labels lab leak as a conspiracy theory. It's not like he's lied before, and might be doing it again for self preservation.

I'll be honest. If you really look at the only (circumstantial) evidence available for the origin of the virus. It points to a lab leak.

1. U.S. cables talking about unsafe practices at the lab.
2. This lab was studying gain of function on the exact kind of bat coronaviruses that is covid-19.
3. Workers get sick at the lab before the outbreak with covid like symptoms.
4. China scrubbed early patient data.
5. China will not let the WHO, or anyone interview the researchers at the Wuhan lab.
6. No one can find a less contagious version of covid found before the outbreak. (For zoonotic origin to be true, this should exist.)

Why is anyone in America making excuses for China? It's on China to provide full cooperation, and transparency. If not, America, and the rest of the world SHOULD act like the worst case scenario happened. A military bioweapon was malicious released into their own population for plausible deniability.

Let's say that it did leak from a lab in China. What should the world do? What leverage do you think anyone has over China right now? Should there be a military response?

Unless you believe that they intentionally allowed the virus to escape, i don't think anyone benefits from trying to extract vengeance on China.
 

DaveXA

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Let's say that it did leak from a lab in China. What should the world do? What leverage do you think anyone has over China right now? Should there be a military response?

Unless you believe that they intentionally allowed the virus to escape, i don't think anyone benefits from trying to extract vengeance on China.
Economic sanctions and the Olympics would be two possible levers. Whatever happens should be in the context of broad coalition willing to make the hard choices and impose economic sanctions and possibly boycott the Olympics. China has a lot to lose if the international community decides to do something about it.

Whether that all happens, idk.
 

samiam5211

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Economic sanctions and the Olympics would be two possible levers. Whatever happens should be in the context of broad coalition willing to make the hard choices and impose economic sanctions and possibly boycott the Olympics. China has a lot to lose if the international community decides to do something about it.

Whether that all happens, idk.
I just don't think the rest of the world is in a position to deal with it, and the outcome of trying to punish China would probably make things worse for everyone.

I would be more interested in trying to impose consequences relating to their ethnic cleansing and militarization of the South China Sea than to punish them from accidentally releasing Covid. We aren't going to stop covid from getting out, that's over. There is ongoing genocide that we might be able to help stop eventually though.
 

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