All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (10 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[SaintForLife]

More on the $2000 checks:

And yet, despite the fact that the $2,000 checks proposal is enormously popular, the party has almost immediately reverted back to form, slowly but surely trying to complicate the idea to the point where it’s becoming unrecognizable, complex and a proof point for those who believe Democrats refuse to just do what they promise.

In the weeks since high profile Democrats — from now-President Joe Biden to new Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer — unequivocally promised that winning the Georgia senate races and control of the Senate would immediately produce such checks, the party’s leaders, its adjacent think tank infrastructure and the elite media they worship have tried to chip away even at this simple, nearly universal idea, despite its overwhelming popularity in opinion polls.

First, Biden carefully adjusted his language from saying that $2,000 checks “will go out the door immediately” to declaring now that he will merely “finish the job of getting a total of $2,000” out to people — a shift used to justify proposing new $1,400 checks instead of $2,000 checks.

Democratic partisans backed him up, arguing that the promise of $2,000 checks always took into account the $600 checks authorized by Congress in December, even though the party kept pledging “$2,000 checks” after the $600 checks went out with Trump’s name on them.

Read My Lips: $2,000 Now

Dems promised a near-universal benefit, but now billionaire-owned media is trying to convince them to ignore history and gut their proposal.

www.dailyposter.com

When Democratic lawmakers sought to boost those checks to $2,000, the argument goes, they were really only proposing an additional $1,400 — so Biden’s push now for $1,400 checks would bring the total relief up to $2,000 and therefore fulfill Democrats’ promises.

Publicly, however, Biden and top Democrats were unequivocal: they promised that taking back the Senate would result in a $2,000 survival check for millions of Americans. Biden, for instance, said that Democrats winning in Georgia would “put an end to the block in Washington on that $2,000 stimulus check, that money that will go out the door immediately to people who are in real trouble.”

But Thursday night, Biden made a subtle but important rhetorical shift, saying: “We will finish the job of getting a total of $2,000 in direct relief to people who need it the most.”

When seeking support from Georgia’s voters, Democrats never tried explaining to people that $2,000 checks would actually mean new $1,400 payments on top of the $600 checks already authorized by Congress. It’s easy to see why they didn’t: It’s the exact type of annoying semantic argument that Democratic politicians are often lampooned for, and it might as well be designed to enrage people and demoralize them.

"$2,000 means $2,000,” Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez told the Washington Post. “$2,000 does not mean $1,400.″

It’s worth noting that the Trump administration already started sending those $600 checks out with Trump’s name on them. Why would the average person who doesn’t follow the inner workings of Congress believe those $600 payments were a down payment from Democrats, even if they were?

Dems Reject Bigger Survival Checks, Float Tax Breaks For The Rich

Party leaders are backing off a chance to push for a new round of full $2,000 survival checks — while Democratic lawmakers consider new tax breaks for the wealthy.

www.dailyposter.com

 

[Saint by the Bay]

It can be difficult to gather more information and then disseminate it when politicians and parties give speeches lacking in substance or detail or seem contradictory and their legislative bills in state legislatures and/or Congress reflect some of these same sentiments. "Details" can be misleading if their partisan-based and considering our hyper-partisan cable news media networks who give two vastly, wildly different versions of how our country and economy is going right now----"gotcha" sound bites are sort of what we're left with, mostly. How many millions of Americans tune in regularly to watch and listen to weekly news on PBS compared to flashy, highly stylized graphical slide show productions on FOX News, MSNBC, CNN, or even NBC/CBS evening highly news broadcasts?

OK, but you don't have to speculate in this case. There was a Bill. An actual Bill that was voted on and passed by Democrats. It called for an additional $1400 bringing the total to $2000. They took bias and guesswork entirely out of the equation.

And frankly if you listen to interviews from actual people, read actual proposed and/or voted on legislation, use a smidgen of critical thinking, and don't form opinions from Tweets or single sentence sound bite compilations it isn't that hard to figure out what is going on.

 

[SaintForLife]

I didn't intend it as an insult. I wasn't even thinking of you when I typed it. I don't make my disdain for you and people like you a secret, but you aren't as prevalent in my thoughts as you'd apparently like to think. Now, it was someone I respected asking for evidence I'd probably invest the time to back things up. For you? Nah.

Oh please. Yes you did. You do it constantly. You can add me to your ignore list, but then you would be able to claim your self-absorbed moral and intellectual superiority.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Oh please. Yes you did. You do it constantly. You can add me to your ignore list, but then you would be able to claim your self-absorbed moral and intellectual superiority.

Look, I don't like you. I don't respect you. I don't think you're intellectually honest or honest at all.

If I intended to insult you there I'd tell you, because I don't hide the fact that I have utter and complete disdain for you. Why would I suddenly want to hide it in that one case?

As to the ignore list that would take away some of my best entertainment, so no.

 

[Saintman2884]

OK, but you don't have to speculate in this case. There was a Bill. An actual Bill that was voted on and passed by Democrats. It called for an additional $1400 bringing the total to $2000. They took bias and guesswork entirely out of the equation.

And frankly if you listen to interviews from actual people, read actual proposed and/or voted on legislation, use a smidgen of critical thinking, and don't form opinions from Tweets or single sentence sound bite compilations it isn't that hard to figure out what is going on.

I don't use Twitter much less see it as some font of intellectual fact-finding related to political or social issues, even I know gathering a cursory understanding of most issues or deep, complex nature of climate change, systemic racism, police brutality, single-payer healthcare system(one thats efficient and works effectively, IMHO), won't be gained or understood by listening or gleaned from one-sentence sound bites from larger interviews or speeches from scientists, politicians, business leaders or entertainers. I don't believe in being intellectually lazy or dishonest. I don't why you seemed to infer I lack in critical thinking here but I tend to gather a better understanding by actually reading and researching the actual topics myself then having it spelled out to me like Im a middle school simpleton.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I don't use Twitter much less use it or see it as a font of intellectual fact-finding related to political or social issues, even I know gathering a cursory understanding of most issues or deep, complex nature of climate change, systemic racism, police brutality, single-payer healthcare system(one thats efficient and works effectively, IMHO), won't be gained or understood by listening or gleaned from one-sentence sound bites from larger interviews or speeches from scientists, politicians, business leaders or entertainers. I don't believe in being intellectually lazy or dishonest.

You've never struck me as the type, and when you comment it's generally very detailed showing you do a lot of research. I also can't remember in the years of posting with you seeing you post any links. It's all based on your knowledge gathered over time.

I think in most cases critical thinking and bias are the bigger issues. There was a Bill that spelled this out voted on and passed by Democrats in the House before the Georgia election. Anyone confused could have just looked at that Bill to understand what Democrats wanted to do. It was cut and dry. I think there was some wishful thinking probably going on there, too. This isn't some of the more complex issues you listed though. This one was really simple.

 

[SaintForLife]

Look, I don't like you. I don't respect you. I don't think you're intellectually honest or honest at all.

If I intended to insult you there I'd tell you, because I don't hide the fact that I have utter and complete disdain for you. Why would I suddenly want to hide it in that one case?

As to the ignore list that would take away some of my best entertainment, so no.

Oh look, you all of a sudden have time to keep posting when earlier you didn't have time for a simple Google search to back up your claim. I know your game. You result to insults when you are wrong on a particular subject. You also try to skirt the TOS with your insults.

It's adorable that you think I care about what you think about me.

 

[Saintman2884]

You've never struck me as the type, and when you comment it's generally very detailed showing you do a lot of research. I also can't remember in the years of posting with you seeing you post any links. It's all based on your knowledge gathered over time.

I think in most cases critical thinking and bias are the bigger issues. There was a Bill that spelled this out voted on and passed by Democrats in the House before the Georgia election. Anyone confused could have just looked at that Bill to understand what Democrats wanted to do. It was cut and dry. I think there was some wishful thinking probably going on there, too. This isn't some of the more complex issues you listed though. This one was really simple.

Most of our conversations on SR usually have to do with game day Saints games observations or up-to-the-minute momentum points during course of those games and how good or bad the Saints did or didn't do at the time or SSF offseason FA-related possibilities, potential or hypothetical trades or rumored acquisitions like who's going to replace Drew at QB or in about a month, posters will be releasing their own personal mock drafts and later re-worked mock drafts 2.0.

Here on MAP, it's all about serious, sobering discussions related to getting a sense or better understanding or a series of talking points about complex sociopolitical issues, or problems and if you don't enough of a convincing logical foundation thats centered on details and contextual facts, you won't be allowed anywhere near the table, much less sit at it.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

We should be overjoyed that Biden and the Georgia Senators lied to gain control of the Senate?

If the means/methodology were as important as the ends then why weren't you a bigger critic of Trump?

 

[CoolBrees]

Are we just going to pretend the whole Trump “presidency” never happened?

all of the “well what he meant was” responses Trump supporters used to wave away comments - that didn’t happen?

and we should just go back to holding people accountable for their words?

no mea culpa for supporting an insurrection? Or wild conspiracy theories?

nothing?

Without some level of contrition, i would think it would be hard to take someone serious after all that.

 

[SaintForLife]

If the means/methodology were as important as the ends then why weren't you a bigger critic of Trump?

I said Trump was a habitual liar multiple times in the past. You can search my posts to see that if you want. It's so refreshing to have Biden as President because at least his lies are eloquent.

 

[SaintForLife]

Are we just going to pretend the whole Trump “presidency” never happened?

all of the “well what he meant was” responses Trump supporters used to wave away comments - that didn’t happen?

and we should just go back to holding people accountable for their words?

no mea culpa for supporting an insurrection? Or wild conspiracy theories?

nothing?

Without some level of contrition, i would think it would be hard to take someone serious after all that.

I never said anything about supporting an insurrection or any of the conspiracy theories about the election results and you know that. If you believe I did, quote my posts that said what you claimed.

I said Trump was a habitual liar multiple times here. You guys said Biden would be better. He's quickly going back to policies and that brought us Trump including telling the public one thing(to get the Democrats in Georgia elected) and then doing something else after he was elected.

 

[J-DONK]

I have no idea how you guys got so ugly about 2k checks. I'm pretty far left compared to the rest of this board. Saintforlife did bring up a valid point. Progressives like AOC brought up the same argument about the checks.

However, Democrats also passed a bill back in the lame duck session to bump the 600 checks to 2k. There is precedent that this was always the deal.

In all honesty, it came down to what they could squeeze out of Joe Manchin. I'm sure the Biden administration realizes the popularity of the checks. I'm sure Biden would rather not open himself up to any criticism on the subject over 600 dollars. He already had to send Kamala to WV to strongarm Manchin on the relief bill. I'm giving the man a pass on this one.

Manchin on proposed round of $2K checks: 'Absolutely not'

Sen.

thehill.com

I think the far more important thing to focus on is:

A) Use 2020 income data, and not 2019. This bill won't get passed until March.
B) Get this passed before the long-term unemployment benefits run out in March.

Those are much bigger points to me then the haggling over 600 dollars.

 

[wardorican]

Biden addressing the superbowl to mask up, socially distance, get vaccines...


If Trump could tweet... lol, he'd be so angry

 

[wardorican]

There are angry people out there, especially Democrats, that Biden's, Ossoff's, & Warnock's
promises about the $2000 stimulus checks turned out to be BS. I know the spin now is $600 + $1400 = $2000, but that's not what was said before the election.

I wasnt constantly watching it, but it was clear that it was 2000 from the original bill. The republicans only delivered 600, so they wanted to make it the full 2000,.so 1400 more.

 

[wardorican]

I never said anything about supporting an insurrection or any of the conspiracy theories about the election results and you know that. If you believe I did, quote my posts that said what you claimed.

I said Trump was a habitual liar multiple times here. You guys said Biden would be better. He's quickly going back to policies and that brought us Trump including telling the public one thing(to get the Democrats in Georgia elected) and then doing something else after he was elected.

Actually we haven't heard from you in like 2 months....

Were you really insulted or are you just being sensitive?

 

[DaveXA]

To me, it was always about bumping the original $600 to $2k. Most of the interviews with both Democrats and Republicans, they were almost always talking about whether or not to do the additional $1400. I think only a few Democrats were pushing for a full $2k in addition to the $600. AOC tweeted that out and iirc a few others requested that, but for the most part, the talking points have been $1400 to bring the overall total to $2000.

Fwiw, the nitpicking over $1400 vs $2000 seems a bit much. There are bigger issues than that.

 

[MT15]

Not to mention how silly it is to compare this, whatever it is, to Trump‘s consistent habitual lying.

SFL, you can do better. Converse with us in a forthright manner, it will be so much more rewarding than this performative stuff you are pulling.