All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (2 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Seriously ill, or just enough ill, a hospital bed doesn't care; a heartbeat monitor doesn't care, a hospital room doesn't care, the hours in the day don't care... they all are resources that are used.

Right, but what are you using to determine that there are masses of people just waiting to go to the hospital as soon as they have insurance?

That's not entirely true, is it? That's not where it ends. If we already have a universal health care system that we all can freely use without cost, then what's Sanders et al are blabbering about health care costs?

Because right now it puts them in debt. Healthcare for severe illnesses and injuries is inelastic -- if you need something or you will die or be permanently disabled, you will get it, and worry about paying for it later. That's what is happening right now.

The ACA was a step in the right direction, in that it provided more affordable health insurance to 10 million people, but even with the ACA, there are costs, and people still can go bankrupt with a bad illness.

Right, the ACA greatly increased the number of insured Americans and we did not experience mass shortages of health care. And that was for people who were probably the sickest, since it forbid denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Essentially, the ACA incentivized sizk Americans to get healthcare. Those who remain are the ones who determined they were better off paying the penalty and not having insurace - which means they were either young and healthy with no need for health care, or were poor but not sick enough to pay for health insurance.

Basically, there are only about 8% of Americans who aren't covered right now--- so at worse you're going to see an 8% increase in demand, but given that those that are uninsured skew heavily younger and healthier, that increase in demand is going to be less than that. Further, that demand will skew further in preventive care b/c those who really need serious care are already getting it, whether they can pay for it or not - they just have massive debts afterwards.

All of which is different than a disease which actually makes people sick and require health care. Insuring people doesn't make them need hospital beds.

 

[brandon]

This is what happens when the administration has spent three years telling people the media is fake news.

When people really need to be listening to authorities, they’re convinced that if dear leader said it’s no big deal, then it’s no big deal.

Cue “No, I knew all on my own that this was no big deal and definitely didn’t have my opinion formed through White House propaganda.”

 

[samiam5211]

You surely jest. WWI, WWII, the Bubonic plague, the 1918 influenza pandemic... just to name a few, those don't ring a bell?

And you are comparing a virus to terrorists hijacking airplanes full of people and slamming them into buildings? An act that still results in the deaths of first responders today?

Shame on you.

This is the type of rhetorical bullshirt that really irks me.

We’ve never had a global shared experience like this because we’ve never had a global calamity at a time where we were all able to communicate with each other on a global scale.

Going through a similar situation is only half of a shared experience.

They didn’t have Twitter in 1918.

PS: I’m glad you’re irked. You should be.

 

[not2rich]

This is what happens when the administration has spent three years telling people the media is fake news.

When people really need to be listening to authorities, they’re convinced that if dear leader said it’s no big deal, then it’s no big deal.

Cue “No, I knew all on my own that this was no big deal and definitely didn’t have my opinion formed through White House propaganda.”

Was listening to POTUS while driving today, and they were saying how while most Republicans think the virus is no big deal, most Democrats thought it was. Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh surely have a lot to do with that.

 

[zztop]

Wow... that website is neutral for sure..lol... If it threw anymore Sugar on Pelosi she'd turn into a marshmellow... shheeezzzzzz... I bet that website is not biased... nope... not at all...

Two things...

If this virus is helping any candidate in particular it has to be Sanders with his free healthcare...

Well on the other side you have:

Sean Hannity used his syndicated talk-radio program Wednesday to share a prediction he had found on Twitter about what is really happening with the coronavirus: It’s a “fraud” by the deep state to spread panic in the populace, manipulate the economy and suppress dissent. “May be true”

or

“This coronavirus?” Rush Limbaugh asked skeptically during his Wednesday program. “All of this panic is just not warranted.”

or

Fox Business anchor Trish Regan told viewers Monday that the worry over coronavirus “is yet another attempt to impeach the president.”

 

[SaintForLife]

Excellent podcast on the Coronavirus from an expert

Michael Osterholm is an internationally recognized expert in infectious disease epidemiology. He is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota. Look for his book "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Deadly Germs" for more info.

‎The Joe Rogan Experience on Apple Podcasts

‎Comedy · 2018

podcasts.apple.com

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Earlier today I was reading about past epi/pandemics and realized how far we’ve come in the past 300 years.

Then when I got home from work spent an hour on the phone with my mother arguing about whether or not hand sanitizer or washing your hands makes any difference and trying to convince her to not attend the crawfish boil that is still inexplicably planned at her church tomorrow night.

After failing to stop my mother from attending a crawfish boil with unwashed hands, I realized that too many of us haven’t come far enough since smallpox.

The most vulnerable of our population are the least prepared for the reality that is upon us.

The US hasn’t had a shared experience like this since 911, and there has never been a global shared experience like what we are going through now in recorded history.

Every one of us will know someone personally who will die from this. We can’t imagine the impact that is going to have on the collective consciousness.

Separate thought
Our progress has lots of backtracking
We’ll make advances and then stumble back a bit (vaccines followed by anti-vaxxers and the like)
And while WT* if the appropriate response to anti-Vaxxers, i think they make sense evolutionarily
let's say 75% of the cave clan thinks it's best to head out of the caves to hunt for hamburgers across the plains
the remaining 25% thinks the spidergoon is going to swallow them on the other side of the plains

spidergoon clan is obviously crazy but every now and then the hamburger hunters fall in quicksand or something - evolution doesn't want us to put all eggs in one basket

 

[SystemShock]

We’ve never had a global shared experience like this because we’ve never had a global calamity at a time where we were all able to communicate with each other on a global scale.

Going through a similar situation is only half of a shared experience.

They didn’t have Twitter in 1918.

PS: I’m glad you’re irked. You should be.

People in the Middle Ages were able to communicate with each other, believe it or not. Wasn't instantaneous like it is today, but that's what they had and what they knew. The Bubonic plague killed what? 1/4 of the population of the known world? 100, 200 million people? Criers walking the streets pulling wagons shouting "bring out your dead", people leaving piles of dead relatives outside their doors like it was trash night... Oh, but the coronavirus of 2020.

People in 1918 didn't have Twitter, sure, but they had the telegraph and news papers. Believe it or not, you could send messages from Europe to the U.S. in a couple minutes. And newspapers would print those messages the next day! Sure, it wasn't instantaneous like it is today, but that's how they knew how to share global events. The estimates of how many people died of the Spanish flu have a wide range... but let's meet somewhere in the middle, and call it 50 million. Oh, but the coronavirus of 2020.

The WW's, well.. I'd think it would be obvious.

You are glad I am irked at stupidly hyperbolic comments?

 

[samiam5211]

People in the Middle Ages were able to communicate with each other, believe it or not. Wasn't instantaneous like it is today, but that's what they had and what they knew. The Bubonic plague killed what? 1/4 of the population of the known world? 100, 200 million people? Criers walking the streets pulling wagons shouting "bring out your dead", people leaving piles of dead relatives outside their doors like it was trash night... Oh, but the coronavirus of 2020.

People in 1918 didn't have Twitter, sure, but they had the telegraph and news papers. Believe it or not, you could send messages from Europe to the U.S. in a couple minutes. And newspapers would print those messages the next day! Sure, it wasn't instantaneous like it is today, but that's how they knew how to share global events. The estimates of how many people died of the Spanish flu have a wide range... but let's meet somewhere in the middle, and call it 50 million. Oh, but the coronavirus of 2020.

The WW's, well.. I'd think it would be obvious.

You are glad I am irked at stupidly hyperbolic comments?

Maybe you’re right and it’s the same. I hope so.

We’ll see.

 

[wardorican]

"It's really working out. A lot of good things are going to happen."

I get what he's trying to say, but this just makes me think of...

"Remember you are dust and unto dust you shall return"

 

[Joe Okc]

After reading the exchange.. I kinda of think that both of you @samiam5211 and @SystemShock are both correct... I get where both of you guys are coming from...

 

[wardorican]

A little humor...





I've been to the villages. Those old folks get down.

 

[wardorican]

It's not just Trump haters - the market went into deeper sell-off after the address. The market didn't like it either and the market is substantially more Trump friendly than here. I actually appreciated the tone of the address, he didn't downplay the outbreak as he has in the past and the measures about sick leave and pay are appropriate (though we haven't seen the details). But it left much to be desired.

But where I think it was weak:
(1) He should have talked about the effort to provide greater testing, until the US has broad scale testing, we don't know the dimensions of this problem and we can't effectively target our mitigation.
(2) He should have talked more about the technical aspects of the federal response team - and how the US has made testing, case-load management, and researching anti-virals and vaccines the top priority - full mobilization.
(3) Personally, I think he should have talked more about the need for everyone to accept and participate in mitigation because it doesn't work unless everyone is invested - and right now there is a significant negative reaction to mitigation as overkill or unnecessary.

Above all else, people want to have confidence. The markets want confidence. I think Trump confuses confidence in leadership with success - he seems to think it's better to mislead about being successful than it is to instill confidence that despite setbacks we are fully mobilized and committed to reaching success.

They beat him up over that address.

 

[The moose]

It's better to burn out than fade away...

I guess but that line was written by a dude that is now like 75.

You can take that sarcasm personally like dumb Kurt and put it in the sucide note or realize that it is just a song.

 

[superchuck500]

When the CMS administrator can't give a straight answer about availability of critical medical supplies, you know it's disaster. This is all so sad, I thought the point of this whole thing we're doing was to make America great.

 

[SaintForLife]

I figured the Democrats put something in the bill that wasn't related to the Coronavirus that they knew the Republican's would reject to score some political points.

 

[superchuck500]

I figured the Democrats put something in the bill that wasn't related to the Coronavirus that they knew the Republican's would reject to score some political points.

Damnit that stuff is so infuriating. They're both insisting that this requires a united front and then they both keep politics as usual. It freakin sucks.

 

[SaintForLife]

Damnit that stuff is so infuriating. They're both insisting that this requires a united front and then they both keep politics as usual. It freakin sucks.

You would think something this serious would make both sides act like adults, but not quite.