All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (13 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[RobF]

Thanks for pointing out the criticisms for that study.

It still does concern me that what we are seeing in the lab from our Covid patients suggests very strongly that this isn’t really simply a respiratory virus. We are seeing a pattern of lab test abnormalities that suggest cardiac, coagulation, liver, and blood vessel effects. Many patients are having strokes, even young patients. This isn’t something to try to pass off as not terribly concerning, even in younger patients. We just don’t know yet how long these effects will last or what the long term consequences will be for these patients.

I seem to recall seeing quite a few reports of post-COVID-19 myocarditis in college athletes. Wasn't that one of the reasons for suspension of some college seasons?

Googling it, here's a good article about it from a few weeks ago: https://www.espn.co.uk/college-foot...vid-19-fuels-power-5-concern-season-viability

Dr. Matthew Martinez, director of sports cardiology for Atlantic Health System in New Jersey, said he has received calls from physicians from at least a dozen Power 5 schools who have identified more than a dozen athletes with some post-COVID-19 myocardial injury. He said about half of them had symptoms.​

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"Initially we thought if you didn't have significant symptoms that you are probably at less risk. We are now finding that that may not be true," he said.​

​

Martinez, who is the league cardiologist for Major League Soccer, team cardiologist for the New York Jets and a consultant for the National Basketball Players Association, said based on what he's seen so far among professional athletes who have had COVID-19, "I'm hopeful the number is under 5%" who have heart-related issues.​

I think it's safe to say it's definitely a thing in younger people, but not a '60%' type of thing. Still, even at the ~5% level, that's significant if you have a wide spread of infection.

 

[Taurus]

I can't say this on the SSF board, but I absolutely wouldn't put it past Trump to send out actual snake oil in late October and claim it was a vaccine.
It's crystal clear that he has zero effs to give whether people live or die.

 

[bdb13]

I can't say this on the SSF board, but I absolutely wouldn't put it past Trump to send out actual snake oil in late October and claim it was a vaccine.
It's crystal clear that he has zero effs to give whether people live or die.

Some snake oil and a little laser pointer so you can insert and shine that light up your you know where and get yourself rid of that virus.

 

[JimEverett]

Thanks for pointing out the criticisms for that study.

It still does concern me that what we are seeing in the lab from our Covid patients suggests very strongly that this isn’t really simply a respiratory virus. We are seeing a pattern of lab test abnormalities that suggest cardiac, coagulation, liver, and blood vessel effects. Many patients are having strokes, even young patients. This isn’t something to try to pass off as not terribly concerning, even in younger patients. We just don’t know yet how long these effects will last or what the long term consequences will be for these patients.

That is something I agree with. I think we just don't know enough about the virus. WE know a lot, but

I seem to recall seeing quite a few reports of post-COVID-19 myocarditis in college athletes. Wasn't that one of the reasons for suspension of some college seasons?

Googling it, here's a good article about it from a few weeks ago: https://www.espn.co.uk/college-foot...vid-19-fuels-power-5-concern-season-viability

Dr. Matthew Martinez, director of sports cardiology for Atlantic Health System in New Jersey, said he has received calls from physicians from at least a dozen Power 5 schools who have identified more than a dozen athletes with some post-COVID-19 myocardial injury. He said about half of them had symptoms.​

​

"Initially we thought if you didn't have significant symptoms that you are probably at less risk. We are now finding that that may not be true," he said.​

​

Martinez, who is the league cardiologist for Major League Soccer, team cardiologist for the New York Jets and a consultant for the National Basketball Players Association, said based on what he's seen so far among professional athletes who have had COVID-19, "I'm hopeful the number is under 5%" who have heart-related issues.​

I think it's safe to say it's definitely a thing in younger people, but not a '60%' type of thing. Still, even at the ~5% level, that's significant if you have a wide spread of infection.

I am sure there is some association with covid-19 and myocardial injury. Influenza, and other viruses, is associated with myocardial injury. So there is an obvious risk at any time. It is telling that all the sports Dr. MArtinez consults with are playing at this time.
Obviously if something emerges that shows a significantly increased risk of myocardial injury from Covid then things should be re-evaluated.

 

[SaintForLife]

SFL, our hospital system does not have a shortage of N-95s. They suspended their recycling program. It was specifically said that a shortage was not the reason for their recommendation for surgical masks only for meeting the general public and general patient population. Maybe they are taking into account our generally low prevalence in this state? In any event, the shortage of PPE is not a problem here.

And Dr. Osterholm’s comments are from May 4. I think there has been some learning on the fly since then. I’d be curious how he would address the same issue today.

I doubt his opinion has changed on the masks because we knew from the beginning it was a virus. That hasn't changed and the only mask that will prevent you from getting a virus like Covid a N95 mask.

 

[SaintForLife]

I seem to recall seeing quite a few reports of post-COVID-19 myocarditis in college athletes. Wasn't that one of the reasons for suspension of some college seasons?

Googling it, here's a good article about it from a few weeks ago: https://www.espn.co.uk/college-foot...vid-19-fuels-power-5-concern-season-viability

Dr. Matthew Martinez, director of sports cardiology for Atlantic Health System in New Jersey, said he has received calls from physicians from at least a dozen Power 5 schools who have identified more than a dozen athletes with some post-COVID-19 myocardial injury. He said about half of them had symptoms.​

​

"Initially we thought if you didn't have significant symptoms that you are probably at less risk. We are now finding that that may not be true," he said.​

​

Martinez, who is the league cardiologist for Major League Soccer, team cardiologist for the New York Jets and a consultant for the National Basketball Players Association, said based on what he's seen so far among professional athletes who have had COVID-19, "I'm hopeful the number is under 5%" who have heart-related issues.​

I think it's safe to say it's definitely a thing in younger people, but not a '60%' type of thing. Still, even at the ~5% level, that's significant if you have a wide spread of infection.

It looks like the story about myocarditis with college football players wasn't accurate.

 

[RobF]

It looks like the story about myocarditis with college football players wasn't accurate.

Different story, SFL. The one I referred to that you've quoted was from a few weeks back estimating the figure to be under 5%.

The tweets you've quoted there are referring to a story from a couple of days ago, where Wayne Sebastianelli, the team doctor for Penn State football, referred to 30-35% of athletes scanned having symptoms of myocarditis whie addressing the State College School Board of Directors:

“When we looked at our COVID-positive athletes — whether they were symptomatic or not — 30 to roughly 35% of their heart muscles (are) inflamed,” Sebastianelli said, according to the Centre Daily Times. “And we really just don’t know what to do with it right now. It’s still very early in the infection. Some of that has led to the Pac-12 and the Big Ten’s decision to sort of put a hiatus on what’s happening.”​

​

It's that particular figure from that team doctor which was subsequently clarified, as above, and as here in this statement from Penn State:



It remains the case that myocarditis is being detected in post-COVID19 athletes. The question mark is over to what extent.

 

[SaintForLife]

The media is now less trusted than Donald Trump to provide accurate information about Covid. That's quite an accomplishment for the media.

Voters skeptical about potential COVID-19 vaccine and say that one this year would be rushed - CBS News poll

Most voters say they would not get a COVID-19 vaccine right away.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[LA - L.A.]

The media is now less trusted than Donald Trump to provide accurate information about Covid. That's quite an accomplishment for the media.

Voters skeptical about potential COVID-19 vaccine and say that one this year would be rushed - CBS News poll

Most voters say they would not get a COVID-19 vaccine right away.

www.cbsnews.com

The poll doesn't define who "the media" is and people have very different ideas on who "the media" is. Some even think "the media" is "left and liberally leaning" outlets only. So this poll doesn't really tell us anything useful or conclusive.

The poll had a small sample size "It is based on a representative sample of 2,493 registered voters nationwide."

Here's another piece of not so useful or conclusive information from that very same poll:

Regarding the presidential candidates, more voters trust Joe Biden than President Trump to make sure a safe coronavirus vaccine is available. We see the usual partisan differences here, with independents divided.

 

[MT15]

The one big thing about the US response to the pandemic that damns this administration is the death total. There is no way the US should account for ~25% of the world’s deaths when we are about 4% of the world’s population. Nobody can call this a success without being completely dishonest.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

So the new Senate "relief" bill is half of the original Senate relief bill with no stimulus funds for citizens, but more money for PPP, which BTW still has money left over and riddled with issues including fraudulent payments.

McConnell says Senate will vote on slimmed-down coronavirus relief bill Thursday

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said that the bill would focus on health care, education and economic issues.

www.cbsnews.com

Great way to start new negotiations.

 

[FullMonte]

I can't say this on the SSF board, but I absolutely wouldn't put it past Trump to send out actual snake oil in late October and claim it was a vaccine.
It's crystal clear that he has zero effs to give whether people live or die.

here's the thing I don't get about Trump's big push for the vaccine.

Overwhelmingly, the people who claim that the vaccine is just about control or about chipping people are Trump supporters, and those people have made it clear that they have no interest in getting the vaccine.

Overwhelmingly, the people who believe a vaccine is critical to getting the virus under control are afraid of a virus rushed out before testing is completed.

So, who, exactly, is Trump pushing the early release of the vaccine to please?

 

[Taurus]

here's the thing I don't get about Trump's big push for the vaccine.

Overwhelmingly, the people who claim that the vaccine is just about control or about chipping people are Trump supporters, and those people have made it clear that they have no interest in getting the vaccine.

Overwhelmingly, the people who believe a vaccine is critical to getting the virus under control are afraid of a virus rushed out before testing is completed.

So, who, exactly, is Trump pushing the early release of the vaccine to please?

Himself.

It's all, always and only about himself.

He wants to be able to crow about his 'wonderful, tremendous, yuge' Warp Speed program delivering a vaccine. It's only useful if the announcement is before the election.

Just as with the Biden investigation, it doesn't matter if there's anything there. It doesn't matter if the 'vaccine' only exists in his mind. If he could get away with that, he would. It's the announcement that's important. Substance means nothing.

 

[bdb13]

Overwhelmingly, the people who believe a vaccine is critical to getting the virus under control are afraid of a virus rushed out before testing is completed.

That's only if you believe the polls, man. /s

But yeah, I'm pretty sure this will hurt him more than it helps him as it seems pretty easy to me for Biden to campaign on this and say "uh, hey look guys, he's risking your health again for his own personal benefit."

 

[Optimus Prime]

Himself.

It's all, always and only about himself.

He wants to be able to crow about his 'wonderful, tremendous, yuge' Warp Speed program delivering a vaccine. It's only useful if the announcement is before the election.

Just as with the Biden investigation, it doesn't matter if there's anything there. It doesn't matter if the 'vaccine' only exists in his mind. If he could get away with that, he would. It's the announcement that's important. Substance means nothing.

If there actually is a vaccine at the end of October and the administration says 'minority communities have been disproportionally affected and devastated by Covid so they'll be getting the vaccine first' - that will tell you everything you need to know

 

[Nebaghead]

If there actually is a vaccine at the end of October and the administration says 'minority communities have been disproportionally affected and devastated by Covid so they'll be getting the vaccine first' - that will tell you everything you need to know

In the CDC release guidelines, they talked about front line medical people getting it first, then high risk groups, then everyone else.

 

[SaintForLife]

The one big thing about the US response to the pandemic that damns this administration is the death total. There is no way the US should account for ~25% of the world’s deaths when we are about 4% of the world’s population. Nobody can call this a success without being completely dishonest.

That's not accurate because we all know that China has lied and continues to lie about their real death toll.

 

[Optimus Prime]

That's not accurate because we all know that China has lied and continues to lie about their real death toll.

Let's say that's true and China is lying and has a million covid deaths right now

How does that change America's response and death toll?

All it would change is instead of saying we have the most deaths we'd have the second most