All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (2 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[Beach Friends]

Yeah, my comments didn’t rise to the level of overreaction you’re suggesting. It'd be wonderful if some studies began to show efficacy in treatment or prevention, but until then, it’s a better use of the president’s time to focus on implementing the solutions we know will save lives instead of promoting something that’s unproven.

Sorry, even though I was replying to your post I was referring to the reaction generally and in particular some of the media.

It's just been odd.

I get that there has not been the types of clinical trials we normally want to see. But, it's not as though there is no reason for hope either.

There has been enough favorable research that the 3,000 medical workers and first responders in Detroit are participating in an ongoing study on whether the use of the drug is effective as a prophylactic.

 

[FullMonte]

I find it odd that there is such a visceral reaction to this drug.

People seem to act as though the scientific community has unanimously agreed that there is no benefit to the drug. That's not the case.

You're correct, that's not the case. People are not acting as though the scientific community has unanimously agreed there is no benefit to the drug.

What is correct is that Trump has repeatedly claimed that the drug is a "game changer," even though there is no evidence to support that claim. What we DO KNOW is that there are multiple clinical trials going on all over the world, and to date, none of them have shown that there is any statistical benefit to this drug. Some of them have shown that there is no statistical difference between patients treated with the drug and patients who received a placebo.

There are physicians who are prescribing the drug and reporting that the outcomes they are seeing give them reason to believe that, at least for certain patients, there is a benefit.

This is true, however, this is what is known as anectdotal evidence. In other words, it's simply someone reporting a story. It's not an actual scientific way of showing that the drug works. They simply say, "Hey, I gave these patients this drug, and my patients all got better." It's possible it was the drug, it's also possible that it was a combination of the other therapies and the patients' own immune system that caused them to recover. As many people point out, the overwhelming majority of people recover from this virus, something like 97%. So, if a doctor treats 500 people with the drug, and all of them recover, that's not really a reliable way of saying the drug works, because statistically, 491 of them would have recovered no matter what. It's well within the margin of error that all 500 would have recovered without the drug.

 

[Beach Friends]

You're correct, that's not the case. People are not acting as though the scientific community has unanimously agreed there is no benefit to the drug.

Actually, they have - there were headlines in the NY Times, the WaPo and others calling hydroxycloriquine "snake oil" and making similar comments. Of course, the usual idiots on CNN were hyperventilating over the very thought that a human might take the drug.

 

[Intensesaint]

I wonder what happened with the media in March proclaiming Florida was going to be the next Italy and or worse than New York.

A demographer says Florida could be 'like an uber-Italy' during the coronavirus, and it shows why it's so important for young people to stay at home

Florida faces unique coronavirus risks because it attracts both college spring breakers and retirees. The mix could "silently spread" the coronavirus.

www.businessinsider.com

Will Texas or Florida be 'the next Italy'? Red states lag blue in stay-at-home orders

In the absence of clear federal guidance, the largest American states are going their own way.

www.latimes.com

Coronavirus is ravaging New York, and Florida could be next. Are we ready?

The images are both real and unimaginable. Bodies loaded into refrigerated morgue trucks. Makeshift hospitals thrown up like MASH units. Navy ships anchored offshore. New York, hit harder by the co…

www.sun-sentinel.com

Yes, I know people are going to get butt hurt because I am calling out the media, but damn it feels good to call out the media.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I wonder what happened with the media in March proclaiming Florida was going to be the next Italy and or worse than New York.

A demographer says Florida could be 'like an uber-Italy' during the coronavirus, and it shows why it's so important for young people to stay at home

Florida faces unique coronavirus risks because it attracts both college spring breakers and retirees. The mix could "silently spread" the coronavirus.

www.businessinsider.com

Will Texas or Florida be 'the next Italy'? Red states lag blue in stay-at-home orders

In the absence of clear federal guidance, the largest American states are going their own way.

www.latimes.com

Coronavirus is ravaging New York, and Florida could be next. Are we ready?

The images are both real and unimaginable. Bodies loaded into refrigerated morgue trucks. Makeshift hospitals thrown up like MASH units. Navy ships anchored offshore. New York, hit harder by the co…

www.sun-sentinel.com

Yes, I know people are going to get butt hurt because I am calling out the media, but damn it feels good to call out the media.

The headlines say "could be" or ask "will it happen". Your assertion that it was stated as fact is betrayed by the very headlines of the articles you shared.

 

[wardorican]

What second wave? Australia is in their winter months right now, they have re-opened and there has been no noticeable increase in cases.

Coronavirus Australia data update: Covid-19 active and new cases, numbers, map and statistics

We bring together all the latest on new and active Covid-19 cases, as well as maps, stats, data and graphs from NSW, Victoria, Queensland, SA, WA, Tasmania, ACT and NT to get a broad picture of the Australian outbreak and track the impact of government response.

www.theguardian.com

We don't even know that there will be a second wave. What happened to just "flattening the curve?"

Why do the goalposts keep moving on when we can re-open the country?

Australia's daily cases have been in the double digits for over a month. They have a few hundred active cases. This is not comparable to considering re-opening with thousands of daily cases and hundreds of thousands of active ones.

That said, it's also not accurate to say Australia has 're-opened' with the implication that the effects of doing so are known. No. They've started to ease the restrictions, allowing some non-essential businesses and beaches to open for example. But in New South Wales, for example, they've only just (as of today) allowed public gatherings of 10 people, food and drink premises can open, but only subject to social distancing and headcount caps (maximum of ten people). Similarly weddings are limited to ten guests, religious gatherings to 10 worshippers. Plenty of places (indoor recreation facilities, indoor swimming pools, cinemas, theatres...) are still closed. They are nowhere near 'open' yet, and the effects of that level of easing restrictions are not yet known (obviously, since they only did it today).


You get that if there's a second wave, then the curve isn't flattened? Right? That is literally the same goalpost it's always been.

1. It's not winter in Australia. It's Fall. In either case, their winters are pretty mild, outside of Canberra, which is still pretty mild.

2. March, was actually the beginning of fall, so still pretty hot. That probably lessened the initial wave, and they were far more prepared for this than we were.

As Australian and US states lift lockdowns, one expert says 4 key differences helped Australia manage its outbreak while the US is fumbling its response

Dr. Lesley Russell, who advised both the US and Australian governments, explains how Australia got ahead of the virus while the US lags behind.

www.businessinsider.com

3. Then everything Rob Said..

 

[wardorican]

WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican political operatives are recruiting “extremely pro-Trump” doctors to go on television to prescribe reviving the U.S. economy as quickly as possible, without waiting to meet safety benchmarks proposed by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to slow the spread of the new coronavirus.

The plan was discussed in a May 11 conference call with a senior staffer for the Trump reelection campaign organized by CNP Action, an affiliate of the GOP-aligned Council for National Policy.

A leaked recording of the hourlong call was provided to The Associated Press by the Center for Media and Democracy, a progressive watchdog group.............

El-Sadr said having doctors relay contradictory information on behalf of the president is “quite alarming.”

“I find it totally irresponsible to have physicians who are touting some information that’s not anchored in evidence and not anchored in science,” El-Sadr said. “What often creates confusion is the many voices that are out there, and many of those voices do have a political interest, which is the hugely dangerous situation we are at now.”

Murtaugh said the campaign is not concerned about contradicting government experts.

“Our job at the campaign is to reflect President Trump’s point of view,” Murtaugh said. “We are his campaign. There is no difference between us and him.”............

GOP fronts 'pro-Trump' doctors to prescribe rapid reopening

WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican political operatives are recruiting “extremely pro-Trump” doctors to go on television to prescribe reviving the U.S. economy as quickly as possible, without waiting to meet safety benchmarks proposed by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to slow the s

apnews.com

It's kind of like his Twitter usage... it's infuriating. He's trying to both be the president and the 2020 campaign. So, he has certain messages that are pure campaigning over official channels, and other messages that are actual governance.

Examples are like when he goes on the attack towards a government employee. Does he really want them fired or investigated and memebers of the admin are scrambling.. or is he just giving a campaign speech that is all make believe?

I'm not shocked that he'd undermine his own Administration to generate sound bytes to increase his chances of being re-elected. Why sabotage yourself?

 

[TaylorB]

I wonder what happened with the media in March proclaiming Florida was going to be the next Italy and or worse than New York.

A demographer says Florida could be 'like an uber-Italy' during the coronavirus, and it shows why it's so important for young people to stay at home

Florida faces unique coronavirus risks because it attracts both college spring breakers and retirees. The mix could "silently spread" the coronavirus.

www.businessinsider.com

Will Texas or Florida be 'the next Italy'? Red states lag blue in stay-at-home orders

In the absence of clear federal guidance, the largest American states are going their own way.

www.latimes.com

Coronavirus is ravaging New York, and Florida could be next. Are we ready?

The images are both real and unimaginable. Bodies loaded into refrigerated morgue trucks. Makeshift hospitals thrown up like MASH units. Navy ships anchored offshore. New York, hit harder by the co…

www.sun-sentinel.com

Yes, I know people are going to get butt hurt because I am calling out the media, but damn it feels good to call out the media.

Who would you say, media or otherwise, would have been the best voices to listen to back in March about what to expect with coronavirus?

 

[wardorican]

I wonder what happened with the media in March proclaiming Florida was going to be the next Italy and or worse than New York.

A demographer says Florida could be 'like an uber-Italy' during the coronavirus, and it shows why it's so important for young people to stay at home

Florida faces unique coronavirus risks because it attracts both college spring breakers and retirees. The mix could "silently spread" the coronavirus.

www.businessinsider.com

Will Texas or Florida be 'the next Italy'? Red states lag blue in stay-at-home orders

In the absence of clear federal guidance, the largest American states are going their own way.

www.latimes.com

Coronavirus is ravaging New York, and Florida could be next. Are we ready?

The images are both real and unimaginable. Bodies loaded into refrigerated morgue trucks. Makeshift hospitals thrown up like MASH units. Navy ships anchored offshore. New York, hit harder by the co…

www.sun-sentinel.com

Yes, I know people are going to get butt hurt because I am calling out the media, but damn it feels good to call out the media.

I was defending Florida on SR when all this was going on. But, I get what these articles were doing.. they were pushing DeSantis to put on his big boy pants and make a decision. At this time, South Florida already cancelled schools (temporarily, until later made permanent), and basically started shutting down a few days later. Actually, it may have been the day after that LA Times piece. I said, that's what was really needed, and most of the state isn't that populated to probably worry. However, we needed a coherent plan. DeSantis finally acted.

I do think what saved a lot of folks, outside of the nice weather, is that DeSantis connected UF's College of Medicine and the Villages to partner together and do pretty wide spread testing. While his "please NYC people, quarantine yourselves" was likely too soft, anecdotally, from the few I've talked to, many complied.

I think those folks were too focused on what the State wasn't doing, vs what the major metro areas were doing that mitigated that lack of action.

but, Texas shouldn't be doing a dance.. they're still increasing last I checked.

And aren't you in Pinellas? Had a little burst of activity about a week ago..

 

[The moose]

I wonder what happened with the media in March proclaiming Florida was going to be the next Italy and or worse than New York.

A demographer says Florida could be 'like an uber-Italy' during the coronavirus, and it shows why it's so important for young people to stay at home

Florida faces unique coronavirus risks because it attracts both college spring breakers and retirees. The mix could "silently spread" the coronavirus.

www.businessinsider.com

Will Texas or Florida be 'the next Italy'? Red states lag blue in stay-at-home orders

In the absence of clear federal guidance, the largest American states are going their own way.

www.latimes.com

Coronavirus is ravaging New York, and Florida could be next. Are we ready?

The images are both real and unimaginable. Bodies loaded into refrigerated morgue trucks. Makeshift hospitals thrown up like MASH units. Navy ships anchored offshore. New York, hit harder by the co…

www.sun-sentinel.com

Yes, I know people are going to get butt hurt because I am calling out the media, but damn it feels good to call out the media.

What like this one?

Florida Health Department manager told to delete coronavirus data is ousted

She said she was offered a settlement and the option to resign in lieu of being fired.

www.tampabay.com

Or this one?

Florida Governor Defends Firing Of Top Data Scientist

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis lashed out about the firing of data scientist Rebekah Jones. DeSantis attacked Jones' claims that she created the state's highly praised COVID-19 dashboard portal.

www.npr.org

Or this one?

Florida and Georgia facing scrutiny for their Covid-19 data reporting | CNN

Florida and Georgia, two states that were among the first to announce the reopening of businesses and public spaces, have come under scrutiny for the accuracy and transparency of their reporting on Covid-19 cases.

www.cnn.com

Or this?

Unaccounted deaths could increase Florida’s COVID-19 death toll, experts say

Reports of COVID-19 related deaths in Florida continue to add up every day. But the total numbers of deaths from the virus could be higher than reported so far, as hundreds of deaths in March and April remain unaccounted for.

www.wftv.com

Don't count you chickens before they hatch.

 

[wardorican]

What like this one?

Florida Health Department manager told to delete coronavirus data is ousted

She said she was offered a settlement and the option to resign in lieu of being fired.

www.tampabay.com

Or this one?

Florida Governor Defends Firing Of Top Data Scientist

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis lashed out about the firing of data scientist Rebekah Jones. DeSantis attacked Jones' claims that she created the state's highly praised COVID-19 dashboard portal.

www.npr.org

Or this one?

Florida and Georgia facing scrutiny for their Covid-19 data reporting | CNN

Florida and Georgia, two states that were among the first to announce the reopening of businesses and public spaces, have come under scrutiny for the accuracy and transparency of their reporting on Covid-19 cases.

www.cnn.com

Or this?

Unaccounted deaths could increase Florida’s COVID-19 death toll, experts say

Reports of COVID-19 related deaths in Florida continue to add up every day. But the total numbers of deaths from the virus could be higher than reported so far, as hundreds of deaths in March and April remain unaccounted for.

www.wftv.com

Don't count you chickens before they hatch.

yeah, I'd sit this one out.

 

[The moose]

yeah, I'd sit this one out.

Why cuz I don't buy Florida and the numbers they report?

Another nugget about Florida and their number issues.

Why Florida can’t get its story straight on Covid numbers | CNN

The Florida version of the Covid-19 pandemic continues to puzzle, writes infection control expert, Kent Sepkowitz. The number of deaths and the number of cases – though presented with a high-gloss friendliness – are difficult to follow if you dig an inch below the surface.

www.cnn.com

 

[JimEverett]

Yeah, a lot of media outlets have shown their bias when dealing wit DeSantis and Florida, like the story of firing the "architect" of Florida's corona virus website.
No question why so many distrust so much of what is reported as news.

Rebekah Jones’ firing is the COVID clickbait the media dreams of – but it’s all fake

By Brian Burgess, The Capitolist Dozens of media outlets, both in Florida and nationally, published the sensational story of Dr. Rebekah Jones, a state Department of Health employee who was fired by the administration of Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, a Trump ally, after – she says – she...

tallahasseereports.com

 

[JimEverett]

I was defending Florida on SR when all this was going on. But, I get what these articles were doing.. they were pushing DeSantis to put on his big boy pants and make a decision. At this time, South Florida already cancelled schools (temporarily, until later made permanent), and basically started shutting down a few days later. Actually, it may have been the day after that LA Times piece. I said, that's what was really needed, and most of the state isn't that populated to probably worry. However, we needed a coherent plan. DeSantis finally acted.

I do think what saved a lot of folks, outside of the nice weather, is that DeSantis connected UF's College of Medicine and the Villages to partner together and do pretty wide spread testing. While his "please NYC people, quarantine yourselves" was likely too soft, anecdotally, from the few I've talked to, many complied.

I think those folks were too focused on what the State wasn't doing, vs what the major metro areas were doing that mitigated that lack of action.

but, Texas shouldn't be doing a dance.. they're still increasing last I checked.

And aren't you in Pinellas? Had a little burst of activity about a week ago..

Seems like Florida is one of the success stories: deferring to local health departments and leaders as opposed to a one size fits all approach.
I think you can say similar things about Tennessee, although for whatever reason we seem to have been more on top of testing than a lot of places.

 

[Intensesaint]

Why cuz I don't buy Florida and the numbers they report?

Another nugget about Florida and their number issues.

Why Florida can’t get its story straight on Covid numbers | CNN

The Florida version of the Covid-19 pandemic continues to puzzle, writes infection control expert, Kent Sepkowitz. The number of deaths and the number of cases – though presented with a high-gloss friendliness – are difficult to follow if you dig an inch below the surface.

www.cnn.com

Want a shovel? Florida is fairing far better than most states with similar populations and makeup.

 

[J-DONK]

Yeah, a lot of media outlets have shown their bias when dealing wit DeSantis and Florida, like the story of firing the "architect" of Florida's corona virus website.
No question why so many distrust so much of what is reported as news.

Rebekah Jones’ firing is the COVID clickbait the media dreams of – but it’s all fake

By Brian Burgess, The Capitolist Dozens of media outlets, both in Florida and nationally, published the sensational story of Dr. Rebekah Jones, a state Department of Health employee who was fired by the administration of Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, a Trump ally, after – she says – she...

tallahasseereports.com

That article isn't the home run you want it to be Jim. It's very easy to read between the lines of "We need to review this data before you publish it." as "We need to delay this data so our numbers look better for reopening."

If they truly are having issues with incorrect data, they should have given examples, otherwise it sounds like a flimsy cover.

 

[JimEverett]

That article isn't the home run you want it to be Jim. It's very easy to read between the lines of "We need to review this data before you publish it." as "We need to delay this data so our numbers look better for reopening."

If they truly are having issues with incorrect data, they should have given examples, otherwise it sounds like a flimsy cover.

It's also very easy to say it's common sense that epidemiologists and infectious disease experts should review data before a multiple-arrested non-public-health expert publishes it.

 

[The moose]

Yeah, a lot of media outlets have shown their bias when dealing wit DeSantis and Florida, like the story of firing the "architect" of Florida's corona virus website.
No question why so many distrust so much of what is reported as news.

Rebekah Jones’ firing is the COVID clickbait the media dreams of – but it’s all fake

By Brian Burgess, The Capitolist Dozens of media outlets, both in Florida and nationally, published the sensational story of Dr. Rebekah Jones, a state Department of Health employee who was fired by the administration of Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, a Trump ally, after – she says – she...

tallahasseereports.com

Do you want to explain exactly what the web site Tallahassee reports is to go with your post? Who is Brian Burgess?

Or do you want me to look for it?

If I were you I would read the CNN article I posted last.

Yes it is an opinion piece by a medical analyst and a physician and infection control expert at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York.

It basically says Florida counts forked up and if new York counted as crappy they would have 40% less in deaths.

Let me know will gladly use the Google machine for the blogger you posted