All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (4 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

We only have a bit over 4% of the entire world's population yet we have a by far the most deaths.

That figure alone should tell everyone how horrible the response and leadership accually is in this country right now.

Well, we need to make sure we're comparing ourselves to countries that are doing similar amounts of testing and diagnosing deaths that we are. I think we're relatively safe comparing ourselves to other Western Democracies on that score, but other countries might be behind us on testing or not counting deaths like we are.

 

[The moose]

Well, we need to make sure we're comparing ourselves to countries that are doing similar amounts of testing and diagnosing deaths that we are. I think we're relatively safe comparing ourselves to other Western Democracies on that score, but other countries might be behind us on testing or not counting deaths like we are.

I would agree to some extent. The facts still are we don't test at the rate needed to really see anything in where this virus is moving by only testing people with symptoms.

But if you consider we have the percentage of world population we have and have 90k in deaths that is just short of a third of them.

Yeah everyone's numbers can be a little fudged or seriously fudged and that math still doesn't work. We have entirely to many deaths from this to consider anything about this a success.

 

[Dragon]

So your definition of success is no hospitals are overwhelmed? Basically, as long as hospital beds are available for the population, the number of dead or hospitalized is acceptable (this is not a trick question, trying to figure out what metrics you are using for a definition of successful management of the virus)?

I'm going with the definition of overwhelmed to be that ICU units are not over capacity, does that seem fair?

No definitely not

We have "only" lost 550 people to Covid-19 and currently we have less than 300 in hospital and less than 30 in critical care (population 5,5 M)
The objective has been to save lives all along, but by including businesses and economic experts it has been possible to lessen the economic impact somewhat. Now when things are fairly under control they are beginning to test agressively and contact trace. The more efficient that becomes, the less chance of having to shut down again what has now been opened. Almost 80% are now back at work - although a lot is still working from home or in shifts to minimize the number of people at the office at once

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

No definitely not

We have "only" lost 550 people to Covid-19 and currently we have less than 300 in hospital and less than 30 in critical care (population 5,5 M)
The objective has been to save lives all along, but by including businesses and economic experts it has been possible to lessen the economic impact somewhat.

I'm just trying to get Surviving Saints metrics of success. I don't need to agree to them, just figuring out how he judges success. In order for it to be useful, it needs to be metrics based. You can use either absolute terms or relative terms.

If you don't have metrics and standards, it's impossible to judge our elected leaders effectively.

 

[FullMonte]

So, this is the kind of thing that always seems to slip under the radar....so, I'd like to bring it up here, and ask any of the those who see to think this administration is handling it well to explain (and possibly defend) this.

--On May 3, in and interview, Mike Pompeo said that there was "enormous evidence" that the virus started in the lab in Wuhan China, and not in the wet markets.
--Around that same time, Trump said that he had seen evidence that gave him a "high degree of confidence" it came from that lab (but that he wasn't allowed to tell us what the evidence was
--Today, Pompeo is saying "we know it began in Wuhan, but we don't know from where or from whom, and those are important things." "We have repeatedly asked to have teams go in to assist them in identifying where the virus originated."

How is it that just two weeks ago there was "enormous evidence" that gave a "high degree of confidence" that it came from the lab...but now, they don't know where it came from?

 

[Surviving Saint]

So have you been tested?

Do you actually know you are not a healthy carriers of the coronavirus?

No I have not. I'm probably not a healthy carrier for viruses and bacteria we have not seen yet.
I'm not sick and I don't go coughing and sneezing everywhere. I don't touch anything unless I plan to buy it. I clean my hands often, not for me hut others.

As fir this crap about far more deaths while having 4% population, the vast majority come from nursing homes. They already had one foot in the grave.

 

[The moose]

No I have not. I'm probably not a healthy carrier for viruses and bacteria we have not seen yet.
I'm not sick and I don't go coughing and sneezing everywhere. I don't touch anything unless I plan to buy it. I clean my hands often, not for me hut others.

As fir this crap about far more deaths while having 4% population, the vast majority come from nursing homes. They already had one foot in the grave.

No I have not. I'm probably not a healthy carrier for viruses and bacteria we have not seen yet.
I'm not sick and I don't go coughing and sneezing everywhere. I don't touch anything unless I plan to buy it. I clean my hands often, not for me hut others.

As fir this crap about far more deaths while having 4% population, the vast majority come from nursing homes. They already had one foot in the grave.

So you don't know if you are a carrier?

Guess what without testing neither does anyone else.

Your one foot in the grave is a pretty pathetic defense and yes we are loosing well more than bedridden nursing home residents.

 

[Heathen]

Moderna Coronavirus Vaccine Trial Shows Promising Early Results (Published 2020)

The company said a test in 8 healthy volunteers found its experimental vaccine was safe and provoked a strong immune response. It is on an accelerated timetable to begin larger human trials soon.

www.nytimes.com

 

[The moose]

Moderna Coronavirus Vaccine Trial Shows Promising Early Results (Published 2020)

The company said a test in 8 healthy volunteers found its experimental vaccine was safe and provoked a strong immune response. It is on an accelerated timetable to begin larger human trials soon.

www.nytimes.com

Good news.

So if all goes exactly right with this vaccine the world will get it next year sometime.

We need to test more frequently of people without symptoms so we won't vaccine the ones that don't need it because they already have antibodies.

But then again we have been crying for tests a long time with no results.

 

[coldseat]

Seeing pics on TV of people out and about like nothing has happened in the last 2 months is surreal. It's like Americans collectively got tired of quarantining and just decided to give themselves amnesia regarding the virus. Out of sight out of mind, I guess is what most people are acting like.

My prediction, we're definitely going to have a much larger and much deadlier second wave. And we won't be able to contain/handle it. May the odds be ever in you favor.

 

[Beach Friends]

Well, we need to make sure we're comparing ourselves to countries that are doing similar amounts of testing and diagnosing deaths that we are. I think we're relatively safe comparing ourselves to other Western Democracies on that score, but other countries might be behind us on testing or not counting deaths like we are.

Just looked at some numbers, and I don't think an unreasonable guesstimate to say that 10% of the entire nation's deaths came from New York nursing homes. I think the most recent number is something like 7,500 but I don't think that captures all whos transferred to a hospital with Covid. IDK, but the real number could be significantly higher.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Just looked at some numbers, and I don't think an unreasonable guesstimate to say that 10% of the entire nation's deaths came from New York nursing homes. I think the most recent number is something like 7,500 but I don't think that captures all whos transferred to a hospital with Covid. IDK, but the real number could be significantly higher.

I think an accurate number will take some time to determine. Right now I'm looking at trends and velocity.

My hope right now is we get some good therapeutics in the next 3-4 months, b/c I don't think we can effectively social distance ourselves until it's already bad and a vaccine is still over a year away. So I'm really hoping someone comes up with a treatment that speeds recovery and prevents hospitalization.

I don't think it's unreasonable. Lots of brilliant people are working on it... but as has been noted many times in the past "hope is not a strategy".

 

[Surviving Saint]

Seeing pics on TV of people out and about like nothing has happened in the last 2 months is surreal. It's like Americans collectively got tired of quarantining and just decided to give themselves amnesia regarding the virus. Out of sight out of mind, I guess is what most people are acting like.

My prediction, we're definitely going to have a much larger and much deadlier second wave. And we won't be able to contain/handle it. May the odds be ever in you favor.

Quit listening to that bullshirt about flattening curves and second waves. They are heavily in our favor.

The more people get tested the more we'll see the mortality rate is alot less than what people are being led to believe. My parents are in their 70s and they aren't wearing masks and gloves because they saw through the bullshirt.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Eric offers his opinion
=================
Donald Trump Jr. is usually the Trump son making headlines for his, uh, commentary about American politics. But Eric Trump seems to want in on some of that action too -- judging by an interview he gave to Fox News' Jeanine Pirro over the weekend.

In it, Eric offered up his own, uh, theory about why some states have been slow to full reopen as the coronavirus continues to circulate in the country. Here it is:

"And they think they're taking away Donald Trump's greatest tool, which is being able to go into an arena and fill it with 50,000 people every single time, right?

"So they will and you watch. They'll milk it every single day between now and November 3, and guess what? After November 3, coronavirus, will magically all of a sudden go away and disappear and everybody will be able to reopen."

OK, let's walk through this, shall we?

So the reason that states with Democratic governors are slowly reopening after stay-at-home orders over the past few months is not to avoid a second surge in the coronavirus (as infectious disease experts worry could happen) but rather to keep President Donald Trump from holding campaign rallies?

(The President, for his part, has repeatedly cited his desire to begin holding campaign rallies again; "It's great for the country. It's great spirit," Trump said of his rallies last month. "I hope we're going to have rallies. I think they're going to be bigger than ever.")……………...

MSN

 

[V Chip]

"We have repeatedly asked to have teams go in to assist them in identifying where the virus originated."

That's really weird. We *HAD* teams in there already but somebody pulled them out.

I wonder who...

 

[Optimus Prime]

It's ridiculous that people would continue to wear their masks while driving alone in their car. That's just more evidence that people don't understand proper mask usage, though I'm glad to hear that anyone in Florida is taking their responsibility seriously. Everything I have seen coming out of Florida is a cavalier attitude toward mitigation. I know that's not representative of everyone, but the news certainly shows the negative side of it in the state.

If I have to choose between the ridiculousness I'd prefer the people who wear their masks in their cars versus the people not wearing masks when they are out and about

 

[coldseat]

Quit listening to that bullshirt about flattening curves and second waves. They are heavily in our favor.

The more people get tested the more we'll see the mortality rate is alot less than what people are being led to believe. My parents are in their 70s and they aren't wearing masks and gloves because they saw through the bullshirt.

Not bullshirt and not taking your advice. You can do what you like, I'll listen to the science.

Good luck to your parents, they're playing with their life.

 

[insidejob]

Not bullshirt and not taking your advice. You can do what you like, I'll listen to the science.

Good luck to your parents, they're playing with their life.

It's almost like the 1918 flu didn't have just a mild first wave but multiple following waves that ended up killing 50,000,000 people.