All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (20 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[Lapaz]

Don't expect Republicans in this thread or in the elsewhere to actually care about this disparity. You may hear lip service from a few, but that's about how far the concern goes. Most will just blame the black community for it and not care.

This, just like every other malady in America was always going to affect POC more. But the degree to which it is, is effecting communities of color is striking and heart breaking.

I agree that it is sad, but I also need to understand it better.

Yes African Americans and the poor in general are gonna have serious problems with the coronavirus.

I don't know how the rest of the nation is but New Orleans one in five families don't own a vehicle or have access to one so public transportation is used. Public transportation is exactly how this spreads in big cities quickly. New York and Chicago the number is much higher.

The thing is poor people live much closer to each other because of cost and usually with more people per home.

Poor people have by far worse diets it is ungodly expensive to really eat healthy.

Poor people are underinsured if at all so yes they have underlying conditions they can't afford to take care of.

So yes the deck is stacked against the poor and minorities just like with everything else in the world.

I think you've got it right. The primary reason that it would affect blacks more is the community's poorer health and healthcare access. The access needs to be fixed, and the stimulus bill should've assured everyone got free healthcare during this pandemic. Beyond that, the poor health is primarily cultural. I don't think it is that expensive to eat healthy, but it is more work if you're poor, because you generally have to cook, rather than buy expensive healthy products. However, the food culture has largely developed from the poverty, since black communities developed cheaper cuisine over generations, and that isn't the healthiest cuisine.

The rest of the explanation for the higher rate of deaths in the black community are similar to the reasons that largely white Europe is being hit so hard. People live closer together and use or provide many services that require gathering closely are naturally going to spread the disease much more. I think if you control for population density, the racial component will disappear. It's probably why the infections will be much lower in suburbs and rural areas.

 

[coldseat]

I agree that it is sad, but I also need to understand it better.

I agree, it is important to understand why, but in the macro sense I don't think the reasons are any different than why communities of color always fare worse than their white counterparts in just about every sense in America. From healthcare to income to home ownership to education to arrest to judicial outcomes to abuse to everything. We know the reasons, there is just no will among the majority to actually invest and fix them and remedy the inequalities that exist. There are just excuses. Always excuses and deflection.

Like I said, it was completely predictable. The thing that is striking is the degree to which the coronavirus has amplified it.

 

[wardorican]

Some math.

Harris County Texas has 5.2 times the population of San Francisco.

To equalize the case numbers lets multiply SF by 5.2

The results are 5247 cases and 46 deaths.

Who is doing better?

Actually those population numbers are likely even more skewed. They are three years old and in the last three years Harris County has been booming and SF has been declining.

BTW, they are both Democrat strongholds.

Ok, fair enough on populations. That wasn't my major point. I did actually say I wasn't a fan of what Pelosi said. I did ask what date she said that, and that the current cases from my post (now a day or two old) was around 500 in San Fran (which I honestly thought was a larger city, my bad there). I could use Dallas as the example, if that's better. 1.3M people is closer to ~900k. The point is, that SF wasn't and isn't out of control. I still think pushing people to go to touristy spots was a bad idea.

At the time, I didn't know what date she made her comments, so, I went ahead and looked it up, and she said that on Feb 24th. When we had about 51 cases in the entire United States. Not sure what the number was in SF. I do know the entire bay area had only 1 death during that time, until March 14th. So, again, the main point was this.. were her comments irrational and irresponsible? Probably not. But, I've been on record saying I wanted our elected leaders to take this more seriously from the get go. Going to china town wasn't a big factor one way or the other. Not like international travel.

 

[wardorican]

High Blood Pressure Among Black People

The American Heart Association helps explain why being Black raises your chances of having high blood pressure, also called hypertension.

www.heart.org

I realize you're(First Time Poster) trying to make this political and racial, but the truth of the matter is that COVID-19 is more devastating to those with high blood pressure, obesity and diabetes. All are much more prevalent in African Americans.

While that part (high blood pressure) is true, but are you also refuting that a bunch of people using Balaclava's or Bandanas for masks out in public may be scrutinized a bit differently than just medical masks? Or that Blacks and Latinos may be profiled more? Is their fear irrational?

 

[The moose]

I agree that it is sad, but I also need to understand it better.

I think you've got it right. The primary reason that it would affect blacks more is the community's poorer health and healthcare access. The access needs to be fixed, and the stimulus bill should've assured everyone got free healthcare during this pandemic. Beyond that, the poor health is primarily cultural. I don't think it is that expensive to eat healthy, but it is more work if you're poor, because you generally have to cook, rather than buy expensive healthy products. However, the food culture has largely developed from the poverty, since black communities developed cheaper cuisine over generations, and that isn't the healthiest cuisine.

The rest of the explanation for the higher rate of deaths in the black community are similar to the reasons that largely white Europe is being hit so hard. People live closer together and use or provide many services that require gathering closely are naturally going to spread the disease much more. I think if you control for population density, the racial component will disappear. It's probably why the infections will be much lower in suburbs and rural areas.

I would like to agree with you but poor without transportation besides public you can't easily get to where you can purchase cheap healthy food.

With the dollar store taking over Americans mid sized groceries the poor are stuck with unhealthy options more often than not.

The coronavirus is gonna effect the white rural poor also it is just taking longer to get to them because they live rurally. They are dealing with all the healthcare and poor diets of the city poor except with less hospital access.

I do think it will even out at the end of this. The red run states that did not shut down are gonna get hit hard in the next couple weeks.

 

[zztop]

Anyone read about Wisconsin?

Wisconsin Election Held Amid Virus Fears: Here's What You Need To Know

Gov. Tony Evers tried to postpone voting and extend the absentee deadline, but he was blocked by courts. Results for Tuesday's contests are not expected for days.

www.npr.org

Governor wanted to postpone the elections until June. Not so fast said republicans! Challenge went to the supreme court and overturned his order. Voting will resume as normal.


To make a long story short: Wisconsin’s Democratic governor Tony Evers tried to move the election to June, but Republican lawmakers fought for it to be held today. The decision ultimately went to the Wisconsin Supreme Court where judges overturned the governor’s executive order. Yesterday, the United States Supreme Court decided that Wisconsin wouldn’t be able to extend absentee voting. The election would go on as planned.

Polling sites across the state had been consolidated due to the pandemic.

For example, in Milwaukee the total number of polling sites went from around 180 to 5.
600k people live in Milwaukee alone.

 

[SystemShock]

My point was that even the greatest generation was no where near ready even though it was very obvious for years WWII was coming.

And my point is that they weren't better prepared because they didn't have the level of technology and know-how we have today. And even though they weren't better prepared, they still got together and they got it done.

There is no excuse to the shirtshow we are seeing now given the level of technology and information we have in 2020.

It is the nature of the United States and democracies in general to be unprepared.

If you say so.

The United States can be woefully unprepared but, given time, can react with overwhelming capacity.

Yeah... kind of late now... but I guess better late than ever.

That is the stage the United States is in now. Unprepared for a large number of hospital cases, we are buying time in order to respond.

Well, yes... the point is, we shouldn't have to be this unprepared. We knew what was coming, we knew how it was coming, we ran the models, we had models from the past... we had everything to deal with this issue appropriately, but our leadership (if you can call it that) didn't do jack squat.

In WWII, we had oceans that bought us huge amounts of time to spool up production. We took what we learned from Henry Ford and turned out some amazing production rates. Willow Run in Ypsilanti, Michigan produced one B-24 bomber every hour at its peak of production in 1944. However, that peak did not occur until over two years after Pearl Harbor. 2700 Liberty ships were built in 4 years. The first, "SS Patrick Henry" launched by FDR on 27 September 1941, took 244 days to build. That dropped to 42 days but it didn't happen overnight.

And again, that was the 1940's. And those were bombers. They didn't know how to mass produce airplanes and boats at that scale. But ~80 years later, we know.

We don't really have that sort of time in this case and the virus is more likely to burn itself out before production of necessary items really gets spooled up.

But we did. We had plenty of time.

What we do have now that we didn't have then are government regulations preventing speeding up production.

It's more like what we had there was leadership, and today we don't. And don't give me that BS about government regulations.

Computers do not make things. They only process the instructions given them.

You are kidding me...

Here's some footage of computers making things, with the instructions they are given:

The fact that the US is unprepared is not surprising.

You can say that again. We don't have the leadership.

It really is to be expected.

No, it isn't.

However, we are not nearly as bad off as other countries with different cultures and systems of government.

Oh, yeah... sure. Glad we are not in Bangladesh.

Personally, I do not feel compelled to lay blame anywhere here.

I do fault the lack of leadership from those in leadership positions.

This fits the historic pattern and we are unlikely to ever really change how that works without destroying the freedom

Give me a break. "Destroying the freedom"... LOL.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

Some math.

Harris County Texas has 5.2 times the population of San Francisco.

To equalize the case numbers lets multiply SF by 5.2

The results are 5247 cases and 46 deaths.

Who is doing better?

Actually those population numbers are likely even more skewed. They are three years old and in the last three years Harris County has been booming and SF has been declining.

BTW, they are both Democrat strongholds.

I live in Harris county right now.

And this is entirely devoid of some pretty important context.

For one, it relies on the assumption the virus hit both cities at the same time, with the same intensity.

Also, for instance, how Texas has the second lowest per capita Covid tests in the nation, and Harris has the lowest in the state, putting it at one of the lowest, if not the lowest, per capita testing in the country for any major city.

Only Monday were we able to get back tests from mid March from several major sites and some private testing centers(many private centers STILL have not gotten results back or reported numbers officially). We had to hold off expansion and even shut down all but two testing centers in the city for a long while because the fed failed to make good on deliveries of much needed tests and the governor has been behind the curve muck thanks to the president as well. Who has states bidding up one another for needed supplies instead of coordinating a strategic response. Leaving everyone worse off and unnecessarily raising fatalities because of it.

Our response, both locally, statewide, and federally has exacerbated our ability to flatten the curve as experts say our peak is a month out. We now are likely in the midst of an outbreak in our prison system due to the conservative state court forcing a crowded jail to keep non-violent first time offenders in crowded proximity and not be released until trial. Which was the plan as infections became apparent amongst the population and staff. Apparently an officer and citizens life is worth giving to make sure Joey stays in jail for a dime bag.

Our stay at home order is so full of homes you could drive a truck through it. And economically, this city is poised for a rough decade as the Permian Basin is in free fall and the oil industry that props up the city in near collapse.

The only way Texas doesn’t ultimately look worse than a place like California, where the governor was and is encouraging mass religious attendance(carving out an exception) and refused a state lockdown for a month, will be sheer dumb luck and a failure to test, not greater competence.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

My point was that even the greatest generation was no where near ready even though it was very obvious for years WWII was coming.

FDR was aware of the threat but, as he often expressed to Churchill, he was confined by our system of government. Churchill tried desperately to prepare England and was driven out of government only to be recalled to service when the emergency he tried to prevent was upon England in full force.

It is the nature of the United States and democracies in general to be unprepared.

The United States can be woefully unprepared but, given time, can react with overwhelming capacity.

That is the stage the United States is in now. Unprepared for a large number of hospital cases, we are buying time in order to respond.

In WWII, we had oceans that bought us huge amounts of time to spool up production. We took what we learned from Henry Ford and turned out some amazing production rates. Willow Run in Ypsilanti, Michigan produced one B-24 bomber every hour at its peak of production in 1944. However, that peak did not occur until over two years after Pearl Harbor. 2700 Liberty ships were built in 4 years. The first, "SS Patrick Henry" launched by FDR on 27 September 1941, took 244 days to build. That dropped to 42 days but it didn't happen overnight.

We don't really have that sort of time in this case and the virus is more likely to burn itself out before production of necessary items really gets spooled up.

What we do have now that we didn't have then are government regulations preventing speeding up production.

Computers do not make things. They only process the instructions given them.

The fact that the US is unprepared is not surprising. It really is to be expected. However, we are not nearly as bad off as other countries with different cultures and systems of government.

Personally, I do not feel compelled to lay blame anywhere here. This fits the historic pattern and we are unlikely to ever really change how that works without destroying the freedom we should want to preserve more than our desire to prepare for worst case scenarios.

This whole post seems detached from reality.

Not as bad off as other countries?

We lead the world in case load right now with a trend in fatalities expected to surpass every other country on Earth(and given the lack of testing, very likely is already much higher given we rarely test dead people due to lack of supply and experts expect a large number of misreported cases attributed to things like pneumonia).


A tragedy made all the worse because we had months to prepare as we watched the slow approaching storm and other countries get hit. Not only did we do nothing, we did and still are making it much worse than it should be.

The president refused to take leadership responsibility and still has, he refused test kits that could have helped track the disease in the crucial early days. Not only denied the reality of the situation but actively fed misinformation that helped its spread(Nancy Pelosi saying one thing does not absolve Trumps wholesale incompetence and historically poor rhetoric, rhetoric still going on today). His management at the federal level has actively undermined the ability for states to respond by doing things like bidding up the price and confiscating bidded medical supplies, refusing to use the tools he has to strategically force industry to meet demand or coordinate supplies appropriately. A safety net response that is wholly inadequate and by extension is forcing people to take unnecessary risks and burdens instead of staying home. Refusing to reopen healthcare markets and fund them, incentivizing people to avoid the system and increase spread. His refusal to issue national or even public recommendations to states has likely caused states like Florida to unnecessarily lose hundreds to thousands of additional lives and smaller cities that needed to social distance earlier avoid the trends in the larger cities first hit.

We had our Pearl Harbor, not only did we have it, we knew it was coming months out, and did, and still have failed to match the moment at the federal level(and the state level, which is a major product of a failed federal response). A response that did not require giving up democracy, an absurd assertion, it simply required being proactive and taking the steps we knew from experts and other countries for months needed to be taken but the federal government has and continues to refuse to do.

You allegory works, but only if we rewrite history where FDR gets word of Pearl Harbor two months out, moves more boats into the targeting range, tells states to fend for themselves as Japan and Germany declare intention to invade, refuses to take coordinated federal leadership, and starts blaming Republicans and governors for not better defending themselves from Japan and German bombing raids. All while refusing to really push industry for fear of the stock market, simultaneously bidding up medical and military supplies and confiscating it with no clear federal strategy, telling those states a national defense of their territory is not for them unless they are nice to him.

 

[Farb]

you don’t give a shirt about identity politics, in fact you engage in it regularly. Save us the sanctimony.

I 100% don't care about identity politics. You are correct. I think identity politics creates a victim mentality that is stupid, divisive and counter productive.

 

[Lapaz]

Anyone read about Wisconsin?

Wisconsin Election Held Amid Virus Fears: Here's What You Need To Know

Gov. Tony Evers tried to postpone voting and extend the absentee deadline, but he was blocked by courts. Results for Tuesday's contests are not expected for days.

www.npr.org

Governor wanted to postpone the elections until June. Not so fast said republicans! Challenge went to the supreme court and overturned his order. Voting will resume as normal.


To make a long story short: Wisconsin’s Democratic governor Tony Evers tried to move the election to June, but Republican lawmakers fought for it to be held today. The decision ultimately went to the Wisconsin Supreme Court where judges overturned the governor’s executive order. Yesterday, the United States Supreme Court decided that Wisconsin wouldn’t be able to extend absentee voting. The election would go on as planned.

Polling sites across the state had been consolidated due to the pandemic.

For example, in Milwaukee the total number of polling sites went from around 180 to 5.
600k people live in Milwaukee alone.

Trump was droning on yesterday about some stupid theory that Democrats only wanted to move the election within 15 minutes of him endorsing someone because they suddenly were afraid to lose. Why would delaying the election make that endorsement less relevant? It, like much of what Trump says, makes no sense. This idiocracy can't end soon enough.

 

[Beach Friends]

Trump was droning on yesterday about some stupid theory that Democrats only wanted to move the election within 15 minutes of him endorsing someone because they suddenly were afraid to lose. Why would delaying the election make that endorsement less relevant? It, like much of what Trump says, makes no sense. This idiocracy can't end soon enough.

You've got another 4.5 years. :trump:

 

[Heathen]

New drinking game for the pandemic times..Every time some random company sends you an email about their heartfelt COVID-19 response, take a shot.

Gotta rely on businesses and gofundme campaigns when we didn't set up our government to provide basic necessities for us.

 

[The moose]

New drinking game for the pandemic times..Every time some random company sends you an email about their heartfelt COVID-19 response, take a shot.

Gotta rely on businesses and gofundme campaigns when we didn't set up our government to provide basic necessities for us.

Probably should switch from shots to vitamin c.

Be safe.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

You've got another 4.5 years. :trump:

Dude, how old are you??? That cannot be your real age in your profile.

 

[Beach Friends]

Dude, how old are you??? That cannot be your real age in your profile.

You're asking another guy if his age in his profile is real? This isn't Grinder.

 

[Optimus Prime]

President Donald Trump has royally screwed up the federal government's coronavirus response, and he knows it. And he's doing what he always does: Instead of fixing any of the many problems he's caused, he's trying to weasel his way out of blame and doing all he can to dodge oversight and responsibility.

On Tuesday, Trump demoted Glenn Fine, the man tapped last month to independently oversee spending on the $2 trillion federal coronavirus stimulus package. Because Fine, who was the acting inspector general from the Defense Department, was removed from that role, he also lost his chairmanship of the Pandemic Response Accountability Committee (only inspectors general are eligible to be on that committee). No explanation was offered.

This isn't just about the specter of the President potentially attempting to assert free rein over the outlay of taxpayer-funded relief. American lives are at stake. The health of our economy -- not just Wall Street winnings, but the livelihoods of tens of millions of Americans, and our basic ability to put food on our tables and care for our families -- is at risk.

Fine's role -- the one that will now be assumed in an "acting" capacity by Sean W. O'Donnell, who will do this along with his other job as Environmental Protection Agency Inspector General -- was to make sure that an enormous stimulus package was being spent as allocated, with minimal waste and no abuse or corruption.

It's disturbing that Americans now may have to worry that our President and his cronies could turn a relief package into a vehicle for self-dealing and a sweetheart deal for the rich, but here we are...............….

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[efil4]

You've got another 4.5 years. :trump:

you typed .5 wrong.

He wont make it in November. The economy will cripple his chances. And if he goes on to throw another 2-6T at the economy to try and float it, he will get absolutely demolished in debates.