All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

... and girls as young as 12- 13 are given in marriage to old men in India, and no one bats an eye either.

Interesting that you would make that comparison.


Apparently there are ways to work this out:

New YMCA guidelines support transgender bathroom, locker room access

A mom at a suburban YMCA recently reported to employees that she was unnerved to find a teenager who appeared to be male using the women’s locker room. But YMCA staff later learned the teen w…

www.chicagotribune.com

 

[SystemShock]

Interesting that you would make that comparison.

Well, we are talking about things people in other countries don't bat an eye about, and this one involves women as well... I got more too... but in any case, I am not telling those young women to "get over it", am I?

I'll say, I am surprised none of the usual suspects here have said anything about your "it's a penis, get over it" statement, but then, I am not surprised either...

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I'll say, I am surprised none of the usual suspects here have said anything about your "it's a penis, get over it" statement, but then, I am not surprised either...

I'm more surprised that you avoided this:

Apparently, there are ways to work this out:

New YMCA guidelines support transgender bathroom, locker room access​

YMCA's new locker room, bathroom guidelines support transgender patrons.
www.chicagotribune.com

 

[samiam5211]

You never have been in a locker room have you? You never had to go to the public locker rooms at the beach?

I guess not.

I mean i was in a locker room in high school, and I played sports, but we never just walked around naked in there.

 

[SystemShock]

I'm more surprised that you avoided this:

I am not avoiding anything. I am waiting for the usual suspects to chastise you for saying women should get over seeing strangers' penises without consent because they have seen them before. But apparently trans women have reached a higher echelon than women in the woke ranks .

Heck, I am probably going to be chastised for that last sentence before anyone says anything about you saying women should get over seeing strangers' penises without consent.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I am not avoiding anything.

Of course you are. You avoided this:

Apparently there are ways to work this out:

New YMCA guidelines support transgender bathroom, locker room access​

YMCA's new locker room, bathroom guidelines support transgender patrons.
www.chicagotribune.com

And this:

How locker rooms across America could become trans-inclusive in 30 minutes​

Santa Monica’s new online course teaches public facility employees how to accommodate trans and non-binary patrons.
www.outsports.com

"The online training, titled “Everybody Changes: Respecting Gender Diversity in Changing Rooms” contains 13 different modules and lasts a little more than 30-minutes. It goes over topics like terminology, the consequences of anti-trans discrimination, respectfully navigating pronouns and resolving misgendering.

The course also uses videos re-enactments to show the potential dangers of publicly misgendering or outing trans people, how to handle complaints and harassment from other patrons and actual trans and non-binary people sharing their experiences of showering in public sports facilities."

And BTW, this is what I said in response to you saying

You:

You really just posted "get over it, you seen one before"... LOL

Me:

If the person with a penis has the legal right to be in the ladies locker room and there are people standing in front of lockers naked for example, yes, get over it. It all depends on the situation and I'm not going to go through all the possibilites. It isn't a simple yes or no question.

 

[RobF]

I am not avoiding anything. I am waiting for the usual suspects to chastise you for saying women should get over seeing strangers' penises without consent because they have seen them before. But apparently trans women have reached a higher echelon than women in the woke ranks .

Heck, I am probably going to be chastised for that last sentence before anyone says anything about you saying women should get over seeing strangers' penises without consent.

I assumed @BullSheetBuddha's intent was to observe that not all exposure is indecent exposure, i.e. that there is a distinction between glimpsing someone's body while they're getting changed in a shared environment, and being flashed. I don't think they were advocating for laws against indecent exposure to be abolished somehow.

I understand people being uncomfortable. The solutions for things like that are things like ensuring people are aware of the situation and providing changing stalls.

Doing things like requiring trans women to use men's facilities - which would presumably require trans men to use the women's facilities, which I'm guessing a lot of the uncomfortable people are still going to be uncomfortable with - or excluding trans people altogether aren't solutions.

 

[Farb]

Its not about feelings. And making another stupid law won’t protect girls or women any better than the laws we already have.

Why make more laws without any discernible benefit?

I agree. The fact we need laws in place of last standing social norms is showing how far our society has fallen. This should be settled in the 'court of public discourse' but discourse today is just the left screaming about how 'ist' or 'obic' you are if you have a different opinion from the very vocal minority in this country.

 

[Farb]

I guess not.

I mean i was in a locker room in high school, and I played sports, but we never just walked around naked in there.

How did you shower and change? Were you the one that took shower wearing shorts?
I see naked dudes just about every morning when I go work out. Not a big deal to me but I would imagine it would be a little odd for a 14 year old girl though.

 

[Farb]

I assumed @BullSheetBuddha's intent was to observe that not all exposure is indecent exposure, i.e. that there is a distinction between glimpsing someone's body while they're getting changed in a shared environment, and being flashed. I don't think they were advocating for laws against indecent exposure to be abolished somehow.

I understand people being uncomfortable. The solutions for things like that are things like ensuring people are aware of the situation and providing changing stalls.

Doing things like requiring trans women to use men's facilities - which would presumably require trans men to use the women's facilities, which I'm guessing a lot of the uncomfortable people are still going to be uncomfortable with - or excluding trans people altogether aren't solutions.

Why though. Why is having trans people use the bathroom that they have used most of their life not an option? The answer is feelings. And my reply is why do their feelings override those of the rest of us, especially the young and vulnerable?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Why though. Why is having trans people use the bathroom that they have used most of their life not an option? The answer is feelings. And my reply is why do their feelings override those of the rest of us, especially the young and vulnerable?

1964 America:

Why is having Black people use the "Colored Only" bathrooms and water fountains they've used their whole lives not an option? Why do their feelings override those of the rest of us, especially the young and impressionable?

 

[Farb]

1964 America:

Why is having Black people use the "Colored Only" bathrooms and water fountains they've used their whole lives not an option? Why do their feelings override those of the rest of us, especially the young and impressionable?

You think the trans movement is equal to the civil rights movement? Voting, denying services (not VP or a justice on the SCOTUS) based on color of an entire population is the same as Dan who identifies and Daniele wants to go pee around other women? Come on man!

 

[Optimus Prime]

You think the trans movement is equal to the civil rights movement? Voting, denying services (not VP or a justice on the SCOTUS) based on color of an entire population is the same as Dan who identifies and Daniele wants to go pee around other women? Come on man!

Equal? No

Parallels and similarities? Absolutely

Denying a group of people from using a bathroom they'd like to use because of what they are and can't help being?

Sounds like a similar situation to me

 

[Optimus Prime]

More from the "Won't someone think of the children front!!??"
==========================================

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — Florida Republicans want to forbid discussions of sexual orientation or gender identity in schools with a bill that activists say endangers children and echoes a previous wave of laws that sought to squelch LGBTQ conversations in the classroom.

Activists have dubbed the proposal moving through Florida's GOP-controlled Statehouse as the “Don't Say Gay” bill, and it has attracted condemnation on social media and from Chasten Buttigieg, the husband of Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg.

If passed, the measure would "effectively silence students from speaking about their LGBTQ family members, friends, neighbors and icons,” said Kara Gross of the Florida chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union............

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[samiam5211]

How did you shower and change? Were you the one that took shower wearing shorts?
I see naked dudes just about every morning when I go work out. Not a big deal to me but I would imagine it would be a little odd for a 14 year old girl though.

We never showered.

Now, in basic training, it was all males and we were naked for half of the first two weeks.

 

[SystemShock]

I assumed @BullSheetBuddha's intent was to observe that not all exposure is indecent exposure, i.e. that there is a distinction between glimpsing someone's body while they're getting changed in a shared environment, and being flashed. I don't think they were advocating for laws against indecent exposure to be abolished somehow.

I understand people being uncomfortable. The solutions for things like that are things like ensuring people are aware of the situation and providing changing stalls.

Doing things like requiring trans women to use men's facilities - which would presumably require trans men to use the women's facilities, which I'm guessing a lot of the uncomfortable people are still going to be uncomfortable with - or excluding trans people altogether aren't solutions.

... and I rest my case.

Here you are taking the time to wokesplain to me what BSB meant by saying "you [women] have seen penises before; get over it", but said nothing to BSB for making such a statement; which completely ignores women's feelings and what women have always endured by merely being women, from unwanted sexual advances to rape.

But again, people with ovaries are now a notch below trans women in the woke meter.

Again, "you were born with a penis, get over it"... how does that sound?

 

[SystemShock]

Equal? No

Parallels and similarities? Absolutely

Denying a group of people from using a bathroom they'd like to use because of what they are and can't help being?

Sounds like a similar situation to me

The is a substantial difference in that, for centuries we have divided bathrooms along sexual biological boundaries; i.e., penises go here, vaginas go there.

 

[insidejob]

Oh for crying out loud. Men stand urinating into troughs inserted in walls in Europe. No one bats an eye.

We do that here too...