All Things LGBTQ+ (3 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Not that interesting.

I believe that cuddlemonkey is smart enough to know that I can't dictate anything to anyone about their medical care. My assumption was that it was hyperbole and she did mean that I shouldn't be expressing an opinion on people's medical care.

Maybe you should make fewer assumptions and more genuine responses to the things being said. You responded to Jim saying that you don't get a say in the decision, not to Jim saying that you don't get a say about the decision. These are two vastly different statements, and someone who is so adamant about responding to the things said without putting words in other people's mouths should be able to understand this and respond accordingly.

 

[LA - L.A.]

What is the difference in beliefs on the part of that fringe that makes them different from other trans activists?

I don't know what you mean when you say "trans activists?" I would have to know the specific details of who and what you are talking about when you say "trans activists" before I can answer any questions about who and what you are referring to when you say "trans activists."

Until that's done, there's no worthwhile or meaningful conversation to be had here.

If you respond in the way you have typically responded to me, then there still won't be a worthwhile or meaningful conversation to be had here.

I'm not telling you what you have to do or what you can and can't do. You're free to choose to do whatever and however you want. I'm just being upfront with you, so that you won't feel like I "broke a deal" with you, if I choose not to respond to whatever you might say.

If I don't respond to any response of yours, I'm okay with you thinking and declaring that "you won" or "you outdid me" or any other statement you might make that declares you think you are superior to me or I am in some way inferior. None of that matters to me.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Maybe you should make fewer assumptions and more genuine responses to the things being said. You responded to Jim saying that you don't get a say in the decision, not to Jim saying that you don't get a say about the decision. These are two vastly different statements, and someone who is so adamant about responding to the things said without putting words in other people's mouths should be able to understand this and respond accordingly.

I'm sorry I have no idea what you are driving at.

Of course I do not get a say in the decision, did you really think that I thought that i do?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Dwyane Wade has recalled how his daughter Zaya Wade being “scared” to tell him about her identity made him examine his role as a father.

The former NBA star, 41, detailed the “landmark moment” his daughter Zaya came out to him as transgender during a conversation with Chris Paul and Lisa Metelus at a Creative Artists Agency event in California.

Wade explained that he was prepared for the coming out discussion years prior, after Zaya previously described herself as gay in a school assignment when she was just eight years old.

“So I came home and I just remember my child being scared to talk to me, like hiding in my wife’s arm in a chair,” he said, referring to his wife and Zaya’s stepmother, Gabrielle Union. “I think I’m this dad that’s like: ‘Hey, come and tell me anything! I’m a cool dad.’”

The retired Miami Heat player shared that he saw “fear in [his] child’s face” as she came out to him, which told him he needed “to check [himself]”.

“I had to go look myself in the mirror and ask myself: ‘Why was my child scared? Scared to tell me something about herself?’” he recalled asking.

Wade then explained how the moment made him self-reflect on how his “masculinity” has negatively impacted his children. “In a lot of work as parents – and as people – what we do is we put our fears and everything on our kids. And I guess I was doing that,” he said. “So I had to go look myself in the mirror and ask myself…What is it about my masculinity that has my child afraid?”

Dwyane Wade and his wife Gabrielle Union have been vocal advocates for the LGBT+ community ever since their daughter Zaya Wade first came out publicly as transgenderwhen she was 12 years old. The couple previously thanked their now 16-year-old daughter “for leading them on their journey” as proud parents of a transgender child and teaching them about the LGBT+ community.…….

Dwyane Wade recalls daughter Zaya being ‘scared’ and hiding from him after coming out

Retired NBA star’s daughter Zaya Wade publicly came out as transgender in 2020

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Snarky Sack]

I don't know what you mean when you say "trans activists?" I would have to know the specific details of who and what you are talking about when you say "trans activists" before I can answer any questions about who and what you are referring to when you say "trans activists."

Until that's done, there's no worthwhile or meaningful conversation to be had here.

If you respond in the way you have typically responded to me, then there still won't be a worthwhile or meaningful conversation to be had here.

I'm not telling you what you have to do or what you can and can't do. You're free to choose to do whatever and however you want. I'm just being upfront with you, so that you won't feel like I "broke a deal" with you, if I choose not to respond to whatever you might say.

If I don't respond to any response of yours, I'm okay with you thinking and declaring that "you won" or "you outdid me" or any other statement you might make that declares you think you are superior to me or I am in some way inferior. None of that matters to me.

Ok, forget the term "trans activists." Those are my words and you do not have to defend them of course.

You distinguish a fringe element of "transgender people" which were your words. Not dismissive quotes, just quotes to that they are your words.

You say that the fringe are only one percent of that larger group, and that they spew like lunatics and provide anti-trans activists with video and written articles to use to paint all transgender people as also being lunatics..

What policies do those one percent of transgender people advocate that you disagree with?

 

[LA - L.A.]

Ok, forget the term "trans activists." Those are my words and you do not have to defend them of course.

You distinguish a fringe element of "transgender people" which were your words. Not dismissive quotes, just quotes to that they are your words.

You say that the fringe are only one percent of that larger group, and that they spew like lunatics and provide anti-trans activists with video and written articles to use to paint all transgender people as also being lunatics..

What policies do those one percent of transgender people advocate that you disagree with?

You chose not to clarify what you mean when you say "trans activists" after I explained we couldn't have a worthwhile or meaningful conversation without you doing that.

You said "forget the term 'trans activists'" and then made the false claim that I said something about "anti-trans activists."

You're restating what I said as if I was speaking in actuality, when it's clear that I was speaking hypothetically.

You've completely misinterpreted what I actually said.

You use all of that as a lead in to ask a question that is not grounded in anything that I actually said and is not relevant to what I actually said.

This is typical of your responses to me.

All of the above reasons are why my participation in this specific discussion with you ends here.

 

[Snarky Sack]

You chose not to clarify what you mean when you say "trans activists" after I explained we couldn't have a worthwhile or meaningful conversation without you doing that.

You said "forget the term 'trans activists'" and then made the false claim that I said something about "anti-trans activists."

You're restating what I said as if I was speaking in actuality, when it's clear that I was speaking hypothetically.

You've completely misinterpreted what I actually said.

You use all of that as a lead in to ask a question that is not grounded in anything that I actually said and is not relevant to what I actually said.

This is typical of your responses to me.

All of the above reasons is why my participation in this specific discussion with you ends here.

In other words, my questions frighten you, so you find excuse to escape them.

 

[Snarky Sack]

In other words, my questions frighten you, so you find excuse to escape them.

Let me be very clear on my meaning, here.

@LA - L.A. claims that the people whose videos and articles are often posted to show all of the transgenderization movement in a bad light are but 1% of trans people. Maybe she is right.

But she is only right if, in fact, those who are posted are not representative of the trans movement as a whole.

My only question is: what beliefs do that lunatic fringe that LA - L.A. claims cause so much trouble have that she opposes?

How is that a hard question?

 

[SystemShock]

On the issue of sports participation, I see validity in the concerns and perspectives that I've heard. I see validity in your concerns and perspective.

I haven't been able to form a definitive opinion or opinion on the sports participation question. I lean toward policies being the most inclusive and equally fair they can be.

On the issue of testosterone and supplements issue, my approach would be:

1. Determine the maximum level of testosterone that is safe for both XX and XY participants if that is medically possible
2. Allow all participants to supplement to that level if they choose, but only if prescribed and supervised by doctors specifically accredited for sports hormone supplementation.
3. If there is no doctor willing to prescribe any level of testosterone to any specific XX or XY athlete due to safety concerns for that athlete, then that athlete would not be allowed to take testosterone.

I think on just that aspect of sports participation, that is the most inclusive and fair way to go. That's just what I think and only on that issue.

So your solution is to just legalize the use of anabolic steroids across all male sports? Should females playing female sports be allowed to use them too in the name of inclusivity? What else should we do in the name of inclusivity? What about High Schoolers? Should we allow the to juice as well?

There are many human conditions which prohibit people from even playing sports, let alone play at a high level, and no one bats an eye. Why should gender be any different? What makes gender so special that it needs to have preferential treatment over all other conditions? Why does gender need to be accommodated in everything at all costs?

 

[LA - L.A.]

So your solution is to just legalize the use of anabolic steroids across all male sports?

Not what I said at all and what I said was more of a "what if" than a "we should."

Why does gender need to be accommodated in everything at all costs?

Why not? Why not make an effort to be as accommodating and inclusive as we can be to as many people as we can be?

That's a rhetorical question to summarize how I strive to be in life.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Dwyane Wade has recalled how his daughter Zaya Wade being “scared” to tell him about her identity made him examine his role as a father.

The former NBA star, 41, detailed the “landmark moment” his daughter Zaya came out to him as transgender during a conversation with Chris Paul and Lisa Metelus at a Creative Artists Agency event in California.

Wade explained that he was prepared for the coming out discussion years prior, after Zaya previously described herself as gay in a school assignment when she was just eight years old.

“So I came home and I just remember my child being scared to talk to me, like hiding in my wife’s arm in a chair,” he said, referring to his wife and Zaya’s stepmother, Gabrielle Union. “I think I’m this dad that’s like: ‘Hey, come and tell me anything! I’m a cool dad.’”

The retired Miami Heat player shared that he saw “fear in [his] child’s face” as she came out to him, which told him he needed “to check [himself]”.

“I had to go look myself in the mirror and ask myself: ‘Why was my child scared? Scared to tell me something about herself?’” he recalled asking.

Wade then explained how the moment made him self-reflect on how his “masculinity” has negatively impacted his children. “In a lot of work as parents – and as people – what we do is we put our fears and everything on our kids. And I guess I was doing that,” he said. “So I had to go look myself in the mirror and ask myself…What is it about my masculinity that has my child afraid?”

Dwyane Wade and his wife Gabrielle Union have been vocal advocates for the LGBT+ community ever since their daughter Zaya Wade first came out publicly as transgenderwhen she was 12 years old. The couple previously thanked their now 16-year-old daughter “for leading them on their journey” as proud parents of a transgender child and teaching them about the LGBT+ community.…….

Dwyane Wade recalls daughter Zaya being ‘scared’ and hiding from him after coming out

Retired NBA star’s daughter Zaya Wade publicly came out as transgender in 2020

www.independent.co.uk

That's a beautiful and inspiring story. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[SystemShock]

Not what I said at all and what I said was more of a "what if" than a "we should."

That "what if" was very much a "what if we legalized the use of anabolic steroids for everybody?"

]

Why not? Why not make an effort to be as accommodating and inclusive as we can be to as many people as we can be?

Why not? Because it may not be feasible, because it may be unfair to another group of people... Also, what about the rest of that paragraph? Why makes gender a human condition so special that it needs to be accommodated at all costs in every situation, whereas other human conditions are not?

 

[LA - L.A.]

That "what if" was very much a "what if we legalized the use of anabolic steroids for everybody?"

I've read that testosterone hormone therapy for transgender men is not the same as anabolic steroids. My suggestion was based on what I've read before. Based on what you're saying, it seems like what I've read before might have been incorrect. I don't think allowing everyone to use anabolic steroids is a good idea.

Why makes gender a human condition so special that it needs to be accommodated at all costs in every situation, whereas other human conditions are not?

"At all costs in every situation" doesn't apply to what I think or what I've attempted to communicate.

I think all of the things I see as human conditions should be accommodated, not just the human condition of gender.

As I originally said, I see validity in the concerns and perspectives that I've seen you say on this issue. I'm not disagreeing with you. because I don't have a strong enough opinion of my own to disagree with you or anyone else about this.

 

[MT15]

Let me be very clear on my meaning, here.

@LA - L.A. claims that the people whose videos and articles are often posted to show all of the transgenderization movement in a bad light are but 1% of trans people. Maybe she is right.

But she is only right if, in fact, those who are posted are not representative of the trans movement as a whole.

My only question is: what beliefs do that lunatic fringe that LA - L.A. claims cause so much trouble have that she opposes?

How is that a hard question?

Why do you misgender this poster? What is your point that you are feebly trying to make? Do you think it insults him?

 

[Optimus Prime]

A rightwing Christian “hate group” which is behind a host of legal efforts to roll back abortion rights, remove anti-LGBTQ+ protections and demonize trans people has seen a huge increase in its funding and has funneled some of that money to a slew of smaller anti-LGBTQ+ and anti-abortion groups across the US, the Guardian can reveal.

The Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), a registered nonprofit behind the ongoing 303 Creative supreme court case which could chip away at LGBTQ+ rights, saw its revenue surge by more than $25m between 2020 and 2021, a period in which a rightwing obsession with transgender rights and sexual orientation saw almost 200 anti-LGBTQ+ bills introduced in states around the US.

The surge in funding to the ADF, which has been termed an “anti-LGBTQ hate group” by the Southern Poverty Law Center, saw it record revenue of $104.5m in 2021, according to filings with the Internal Revenue Service.

It has handed over hundreds of thousands of dollars of that newfound wealth to fringe organizations which have sought to diminish the rights of trans students in schools and the right for trans people to participate in sports, an investigation by the watchdog group Accountable.US has found.

The ADF, which was founded in 1994 by a group of “leaders in the Christian community”, according to its website, has also given money to groups involved in efforts to ban books which address LGBTQ+ topics, and to organizations which seek to ban abortion.

It comes as Republican politicians and commentators continue to wage a culture war in the US. In June the Human Rights Campaign (HRC), the country’s largest LGBTQ+ advocacy group, declared a “state of emergency” for LGBTQ+ people in the US, citing “an unprecedented and dangerous spike in anti-LGBTQ+ legislative assaults sweeping state houses this year”.……

Revealed: Christian ‘hate group’ funds US anti-LGBTQ+ and anti-abortion organizations

Alliance Defending Freedom distributes hundreds of thousands of dollars to fringe groups attacking trans, gay and abortion rights

www.theguardian.com

 

[superchuck500]

Sooo the court says first amendment trumps equal protection when it comes to public accommodation laws.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Why do you misgender this poster? What is your point that you are feebly trying to make? Do you think it insults him?

I have no idea what LA - L.A.'s identified gender is, so of course I did not choose to misgender. I normally use "he or she," but I seemed to have typed ahead of myself in that post.

If LA - L.A. tells me that he or she feels insulted by my typo, I will happily apologize - to LA - L.A.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Sooo the court says first amendment trumps equal protection when it comes to public accommodation laws.

Was that their reasoning?

I did not know that the court ever prioritized one part of the Constitution over another, but I'm no expert, that's for sure.

If they did, I would reluctantly support the idea that the first amendment takes priority over the equal protection, for two reasons:

1) Defending the rights to speak freely, publish news, peacefully assemble, worship as we choose and petition for redress is vital to our ability to live as free human beings while at the same time having a powerful central government.

2) The first is very specific as to the rights that it recognizes and protects, as listed above. "Equal protection" is a very elastic concept, that could be applied or not applied to any claim of being denied equal protection, as justices see fit.