All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[SystemShock]

No, that's the genuine impression I get from your posts. Usually, anyway

More due respect... great.

 

[Farb]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/whil...sitioning-children-america-is-hitting-the-gas

According to a March 14, 2022, article in World magazine by Mary Jackson, “in recent months, medical groups and establishments in multiple countries have called for putting the brakes on hormone and surgical interventions for youth.”

This includes Sweden, where on February 22, the Board of Health and Welfare declared that “‘uncertain science and new knowledge’ had prompted it to recommend restraint in using hormone treatments except in ‘exceptional cases.’ It advised psychological and psychiatric support as the first line of treatment. The board said it could not explain a 1,500 percent increase in gender dysphoria diagnoses among 13- to 17-year-old girls between 2008 and 2018.”

The article goes on to state that “Sweden’s biggest gender identity center, Karolinska University Hospital in Stockholm, announced last year it would no longer prescribe puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones to minors, except in a clinical trial setting. Finland similarly updated its treatment guidelines in 2020 to prioritize psychological help for youth experiencing gender distress.”

This is not a new conversation among European doctors, however. In 2019, England’s Royal College of General Practitioners (RCGP) cautioned that “there is a lack of ‘robust evidence’ about the long-term effects of puberty-blockers and hormonal drugs.

Furthermore, “in a 12-page position paper, the RCGP complained that family doctors were under pressure to provide gender dysphoria services that ‘lie outside the remit’ of their generalist expertise. The paper advises that more research is needed on the pros and cons of medical treatment vs. a less dramatic ‘wait and see’ approach.”

 

[Farb]

"But why is reducing the entire concept of what it is to be a human man or woman down to nothing but genitals crude and reductive? I don't understand!"

Yeah, if you really need an explanation, I can't help you with that.

Ok, so how do you determine who is male and female? Do you ask them?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Who is more a woman? the butchiest lesbian tomboy without a feminine bone in her body or the girliest transgender woman?

This back and forth over who is a woman is tiring and just keeps going in circles

They both should have the same rights that anyone else has

Either one should be able to be a school teacher if they are qualified to be one

 

[SystemShock]

What's sad is that you consistently have to misrepresent everything. It's not recognising the existence of biology that's crude and reductive. It's reducing the entire notion of what it is to be a human man or woman down to nothing but that which is.

By all means, please expand on the notion of what it is to be a human man or woman.

Like it or not, since before we started walking erect, it is this biological distinction that has been the basis for all societal and cultural norms that make the human experience for human men and women.

And hey, I am all for defining more biological distinctions if needed. We don't need to stick with the binary model, right? But something tells me you'd probably disagree with that notion.

 

[RobF]

By all means, please expand on the notion of what it is to be a human man or woman.

The "notion of what it is to be a human man or woman" is an incredibly complex subject spanning biology, philosophy, psychology, sociology, history, etc.

I'm not going to cover it in a forum post. I can offer perspectives, from this Nature editorial to Simone de Beauvoir's The Second Sex. But naturally nothing I link to will be either comprehensive or unarguable.

That complexity is the point.

Like it or not, since before we started walking erect, it is this biological distinction that has been the basis for all societal and cultural norms that make the human experience for human men and women.

"All societal and cultural norms" cannot simply be waved away on the basis of biological roots.

And hey, I am all for defining more biological distinctions if needed. We don't need to stick with the binary model, right? But something tells me you'd probably disagree with that notion.

I've already commented on more distinctions - e.g the option of an X for gender on passports - so I'm not sure what's telling you that. Perhaps an awareness that whether a binary model is appropriate or not could depend on context.

 

[brandon]

Is there a 3rd option besides men and women that science doesn't know about yet?

We already discussed intersex persons, which you admitted exist, even as “outliers.”

Since according to you, it all comes down to genitalia, then I would say that makes it very clear that science does, in fact, know about a third option.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

Ok, so how do you determine who is male and female? Do you ask them?

 

[SystemShock]

The "notion of what it is to be a human man or woman" is an incredibly complex subject spanning biology, philosophy, psychology, sociology, history, etc.

I'm not going to cover it in a forum post. I can offer perspectives, from this Nature editorial to Simone de Beauvoir's The Second Sex. But naturally nothing I link to will be either comprehensive or unarguable.

So, based on the link, biology, philosophy, psychology, sociology, history, etc. it's always been and will always be about the current notion of gender... who knew?

That complexity is the point.

Yet, it is all about gender.

"All societal and cultural norms" cannot simply be waved away on the basis of biological roots.

Well, not 100%... there are a couple of exceptions. But just about all societal and cultural norms, as they pertain to the male and female of the species, since before we walked erect.

I've already commented on more distinctions - e.g the option of an X for gender on passports - so I'm not sure what's telling you that.

So, how's and "X" on a passport a biological distinction? Is that the name of this new biological distinction, so we would have X, male, and female of the species?

Perhaps an awareness that whether a binary model is appropriate or not could depend on context.

Let me guess the context: gender?

Have you seen the list of genders? It's up to like 80.

 

[CoolBrees]

Where did he hide his colostomy bag?

Sit down Madison, it’s only a joke

 

[Farb]

So a guy wearing 'womens' lingerie. Even they make the distinction.

 

[Farb]

Where did he hide his colostomy bag?

Sit down Madison, it’s only a joke

He tucked it?

 

[CoolBrees]

He tucked it?

That was great, not going to lie.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Article on potential backlash
======================
Republican lawmakers around the country are pushing an array of bills that limit the discussion of gay rights in schools under the auspices of parental rights, leading some party strategists to worry that the initiatives may backfire with moderate voters by making the party seem anti-gay.


Legislation includes a recent law passed in Florida that limits what kindergarten to third grade teachers can talk about in the classroom regarding sexual orientation and gender identity — a measure dubbed the “don’t say gay” law by critics.

Several other state legislatures, including Alabama, Louisiana and Ohio, are considering or have passed similar bills.
The measures have been accompanied by a push among some

Republicans to falsely describe backers of gay rights as “groomers” who are recruiting children to question their own sexuality or gender identity at a young age, torquing up rhetoric that LGBTQ activists say is dangerous.

One top Senate Republican also recently criticized the legal underpinnings of a 2015 Supreme Court decision affirming the right to same-sex marriage — a ruling that has broad public support.

Tim Miller, a former spokesman for Jeb Bush’s 2016 presidential bid who has since left the GOP, said of the recent measures, “I think in the short term, it’s a political winner, and that’s why you see so many other states doing copycat bills on Florida.”


But “I think that there are some big risks for Republicans, though in the medium term,” he added. “There’s a reason that the politics on gay marriage shifted so quickly. … The broad middle of this country does not want to see gay people or trans people be targeted.”……..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/23/republicans-lgbt/

 

[SystemShock]

leading some party strategists to worry that the initiatives may backfire with moderate voters by making the party seem anti-gay.

Seem anti-gay?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Seem anti-gay?

I caught that too

 

[Optimus Prime]

This is making people crazy
=================
(CNN)A California man was arrested this week after he allegedly sent threatening online messages to the Merriam-Webster company over dictionary definitions containing references to gender identity, according to court documents.

Jeremy David Hanson, 34, of Rossmoor, was charged with one count of interstate communication of threats to commit violence in federal court, according to the US Attorney's Office in Massachusetts, where Merriam-Webster is based.

CNN left messages at numbers associated with his family on Saturday, but were not returned. CNN has also reached out to Merriam-Webster for comment, but did not hear back by the time of publication.

According to a criminal complaint, between October 2 and October 8, 2021, Merriam-Webster received threatening messages submitted online through the company website's "Contact Us" page and in the comments section for webpages corresponding to the definitions for the words "Girl" and "Woman."

A user registered as @anonYmous also shared opinions "about certain controversial topics and comments demonstrating bias" in the comments section for the webpages corresponding with the definitions for "Boy," "Girl," Female," and "Trans Woman," the complaint says.

One post from @anonYmous under the dictionary entry for "female" on October 2nd, reads: "It is absolutely sickening that Merriam-Webster now tells blatant lies and promotes anti-science propaganda. There is no such thing as 'gender identity.' The imbecile who wrote this entry should be hunted down and shot," the complaint details.

Over a period of time last October, Hanson allegedly used the company website's "Contact Us" page to send "threatening and despicable messages related to the LGBTQ community," US Attorney Rachael S. Rollins said in a news release.

Less than a week later, Merriam-Webster received a disturbing message under the website dictionary's entry for "Girl." "The moron who created this fake definition should be hunted down and shot. I am sick and tired of these cultural Marxists denying science and destroying the English Language. Merriam-Webster headquarters should be shot and bombed. Boys aren't girls."............

California man charged after allegedly threatening Merriam-Webster over gender definitions

A California man was arrested this week after he allegedly sent threatening online messages to the Merriam-Webster company over dictionary definitions containing references to gender identity, according to court documents.

www.cnn.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

Good article
==========

……Balancing raising their families while also advocating on behalf of their children’s lives is weighing heavily on all these parents. Jose Trujillo, father of a trans boy in Arizona, speaks about how he sacrificed to become a naturalized citizen so that his kids could have freedoms that he didn’t have before becoming a citizen.

But now, he lives in a state that introduced more anti-trans bills than any other in the country. “I felt what it feels like to not be sort of an outcast,” he tells the roundtable. “I’m thinking when I have my children and they’re born in this soil, they’re gonna have a completely different experience. And then I see this happening and it just makes me angry.”

Over the phone days later Jose’s wife, Lizette, told me their 14-year-old son had what she called a “typical” transgender childhood. Early on, she gendered her kid a lot, pushing pink and princesses, but her child instantly rejected it. She remembers a friend of her kid, then age eight, running up and asking: “Hey can he and I go play in the soccer field?”

“The friend’s mom corrected her son. And the friend looked at us and said, ‘No, he’s a he, can we go play?’” Lizette recalled. That interaction prompted her to broach the topic with her child, who told her that in his heart he is a boy. “From that moment on, we supported him,” she said.

Initially they were met with resistance from some family and friends. A close friend of hers warned against telling anyone about her son’s gender identity, for fear that someone might call Child Protective Services.

It took eight months for Lizette to find a support group to help start working through it all. Thankfully, her son’s school was supportive and had experience with other trans children, wiping a big worry out of Lizette’s mind.

She cut some family members out of their lives to protect her son, though many have eventually come around. “It was really painful to have your child, this person that you would give your life for, to have them rejected by people who are supposed to love them,” she said. “I took that very hard, very personally. Why wouldn’t you love him?”………

At the PTEC meeting , Chukumba provides the emotional backbone of the evening’s discussion. “It’s quickly becoming apparent that there is no safe space for us, and how is that tenable?” he asks late in the discussion, his voice crackling as he begins to cry. “I’m already dealing with intersectionality with a Black trans child and now I have to think about what states can you live in. I will have to accept that somebody could decide that you represent something that they hate and that’s it.”…….

‘It is painful to have your child rejected’: the parents group fighting new anti-trans laws

As more Republican states target trans youth, a group of parents meet to push back on discriminatory legislation, share stories and celebrate

www.theguardian.com