100 Marines to Baghdad (Iran conflict discussion)(Reopened & Merged) (2 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

We’re gonna try to stay on point in this one - .

After the Iranian admission of shooting down the Ukrainian 737, which was carrying 82 Iranian passengers, protests against the Supreme Leader have broken out.

The UK ambassador to Iran has been arrested for talking photos of the protests. President Trump has tweeted support for the protesters in English and Farsi.

 

[superchuck500]

Yeah I understand

Yet it is so tiresome the same game over and over and over and over.

I would not tell anyone they are wrong about anything whatsoever without at least a couple of reasons besides I said so.

Oh and buy the way you prove me wrong cuz I am not grown enough to defend my stance.

The real reason I check in here is to save time and not scour the net for breaking news and other points of view.

It does not work with the your wrong cuz I said so thing.

I hear you. But also noting that it takes less energy to say a one-liner about needing support than a multiple line post getting personal about it.

 

[The moose]

I hear you. But also noting that it takes less energy to say a one-liner about needing support than a multiple line post getting personal about it.

Chuck love what you post here that type of stuff is why I even visit here.

Thanks

I did ask for a link with a one liner.

This place is getting old if I wanted to debate someone that can't back stuff up that then gets me mad that is what the girlfriend is for. At least you get makeup or angry sex out of the deal.

I don't know what you get here?

 

[Joe Okc]

because it's not actually his policies you support.

And what exactly is that supposed to mean?

 

[Joe Okc]

I think Joe may find it ironic that I find their "accidental" downing of a civilian aircraft to be so callous and without regard for human life that I would have no problem if Trump ordered a bombing of significant military assets in Iran. Or, take out the entire airport.

Killing 170 people by mistake because you're a belligerent little bugger is inexcusable.

Oh course it's inexcusable... My comments are merely stating, I do not believe that the order to take down the airliner was given from Iran's leadership, but most likely from a young and scared Iranian manning an anti Aircraft Missile battery who screwed up on his own.

Holy shirt, am I defending Iran now... Never mind.. I agree with you dtc.. Lets wipe out an entire airport and boat marina... What was I thinking?

 

[superchuck500]

Chuck love what you post here that type of stuff is why I even visit here.

Thanks

I did ask for a link with a one liner.

This place is getting old if I wanted to debate someone that can't back stuff up that then gets me mad that is what the girlfriend is for. At least you get makeup or angry sex out of the deal.

I don't know what you get here?

Yes you did ask for a link, and he didn’t give you one.

I think maybe we get too caught up in trying to win the argument. What you get here is say your piece to people who are (usually) listening. You get to make the argument - you get to have the discussion. Hopefully it’s a quality one but it isn’t always going to be. That’s okay, there’s no scoreboard.

 

[JimEverett]

I am not exactly sure what I am being asked to source. A source that says a $2.5b payment from Iran was not part of the deal Obama made with Iran? That is impossible to do.

Do people doubt the existence of a U.S.-Iran Claims Court?
Tthe State Department reports the figure of $2.5b here: https://2009-2017.state.gov/s/l/3199.htm as being what Iran has paid private individuals and companies - just like I had written earlier. Those claims were all completed by 1982.
I am assuming that is the source of the $2.5b. If so, it is clearly not part of the Obama deal, and clearly does not involve inter-governmental claims.

This provides a decent overview of the whole subject, although I would quibble with some of the characterization: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/mark...iran-and-1-7-billion-sorting-out-the-details/
And it notes the point I made earlier with respect to offsets:

Several members of Congress have questioned whether the $400 million in the FMS Trust Fund was in fact available to return to Tehran, noting that the 2000 Victims of Trafficking and Violence Protection Act, which was signed into law by President Clinton, required these funds be used to pay judgments against Iran. However, Congress actually paid these victims using an appropriated $400 million. As State Department official Grosh explained, “[the Act] provides that the United States shall be fully subrogated to the extent of the payment… What that means is those claims then become the U.S. government claims.” However, as described in a 2008 Congressional Research Service Report, the Act also “provided that the United States ‘shall pursue’ these subrogated rights as claims or offsets to any claims or awards that Iran may have against the United States.”

As far as my claim that the US does not really "owe" the $400m principal payment as part of the Foreign Military Sales program - the U.S. countersued Iran for $817b, obviously over twice the amount Iran was claiming.
This was a case from 2000 that chronicles that https://casetext.com/case/flatow-v-the-islamic-republic-of-iran

Notwithstanding its earlier repudiation of its foreign obligations, however, in 1981, Iran filed billions of dollars of claims against the United States based on the FMS program in the Iran-U.S. Claims Tribunal. In response, the United States counterclaimed Iran for $817 billion for its failure to safeguard certain FMS equipment under the terms of their agreements. Id. These claims continue to be litigated before the Tribunal. According to the United States, it is unknown how much, if any of Iran's FMS account, which has an estimated current cash balance of approximately $400 million, will be owed to Iran by the United States until the Tribunal claims are resolved. In the meantime, however, the Defense Department continues to make disbursements and accounting adjustments from the Iran FMS account for items procured from contractors, storage costs and account reconciliation costs for 11 FMS cases.

 

[V Chip]

As far as my claim that the US does not really "owe" the $400m principal payment as part of the Foreign Military Sales program - the U.S. countersued Iran for $817b, obviously over twice the amount Iran was claiming.
This was a case from 2000 that chronicles that https://casetext.com/case/flatow-v-the-islamic-republic-of-iran

Isn't that suit still being argued?

Would it be legal for the government to not return owed money and interest because of a completely separate pending legal matter?

 

[JimEverett]

Isn't that suit still being argued?

Would it be legal for the government to not return owed money and interest because of a completely separate pending legal matter?

I don't know on both counts.

But, every source I have seen characterizes it as a countersuit - so it would not be a "completely separate legal matter" and clearly dealt with the same fact issues.

 

[dtc]

Oh course it's inexcusable... My comments are merely stating, I do not believe that the order to take down the airliner was given from Iran's leadership, but most likely from a young and scared Iranian manning an anti Aircraft Missile battery who screwed up on his own.

Holy shirt, am I defending Iran now... Never mind.. I agree with you dtc.. Lets wipe out an entire airport and boat marina... What was I thinking?

If they're so freaking incompetent that a jr little guy sitting scared in his battery made the choice to kill 170 people then they can pay for their sins.

If one of our guys screws up like that he gets court-martialed and put in the brig, right?

Oh, except with Trump he gets an honorable discharge and parade after having been previously convicted for being an idiot.

 

[dtc]

And what exactly is that supposed to mean?

It means exactly what I said.

You support Trump. Besides from his blustery and bullying, the wall and the flag, you likely couldn't defend most of his ACTUAL policies.

 

[Saintamaniac]

It means exactly what I said.

You support Trump. Besides from his blustery and bullying, the wall and the flag, you likely couldn't defend most of his ACTUAL policies.

Well trump is doing exactly what he voted him in to do, working for Russia, lying to him about mexico building a wall, vacationing twice as much as Obama did in 8 years, lying left and right, spending almost a billion dollars on travel expense in 4 years....you name it, he's doing it. It's what Joe voted him in to do.

 

[MT15]

Yeah, Soleimani.
Most of my post are confusing to me too, so its not just you.

I’m getting pretty sick of people saying that the Democrats “like“ Soleimani or think he is some “wonderful shining light”. That’s just a stupid and ridiculous thing to say. It’s insulting.

it’s on par with Trump’s claims that democrats are “pro-crime” and and “pro-gang violence” though.

do you really think that or are you just aping Trump?

 

[MT15]

You just have to shake your head and laugh at this point. Is there a way to keep the POTUS from knowing some of our more sensitive intelligence?

 

[Beach Friends]

Well trump is doing exactly what he voted him in to do, working for Russia, lying to him about mexico building a wall, vacationing twice as much as Obama did in 8 years, lying left and right, spending almost a billion dollars on travel expense in 4 years....you name it, he's doing it. It's what Joe voted him in to do.

Ridiculous post. And to think, you started the day calling Joe the liar.

 

[MT15]

Ridiculous post. And to think, you started the day calling Joe the liar.

you have a point, but you’d also have a lot more credibility if you would call out Joe for some of his more ridiculous posts as well.

Oh, snap, you go around giving him “thumbs up” and encouraging him. Whoops!

 

[dtc]

Well trump is doing exactly what he voted him in to do, working for Russia, lying to him about mexico building a wall, vacationing twice as much as Obama did in 8 years, lying left and right, spending almost a billion dollars on travel expense in 4 years....you name it, he's doing it. It's what Joe voted him in to do.

I disagree.

Ask him. I guarantee Joe did not believe Trump was going to vacation twice as much. He did not want him to be out playing golf on the tax payer dime. He did not want him to lie. He actually wanted the wall - not to be lied to about it.

Joe is not a bad person nor is he an idiot. He's just convinced that the truth is different than the way many others see it. I don't understand it, but it is what it is.

 

[superchuck500]

If this intel about “painting” the aircraft from the ground, that’s quite a bit more complicated than a systems ID error and a jumpy operator.

 

[Beach Friends]

if you would call out Joe

You can drop the recruitment spill, I am not at all interested in the old pastime of pile on Joe.