100 Marines to Baghdad (Iran conflict discussion)(Reopened & Merged) (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

We’re gonna try to stay on point in this one - .

After the Iranian admission of shooting down the Ukrainian 737, which was carrying 82 Iranian passengers, protests against the Supreme Leader have broken out.

The UK ambassador to Iran has been arrested for talking photos of the protests. President Trump has tweeted support for the protesters in English and Farsi.

 

[insidejob]

His administration has to know by now

His administration is filled with nothing but yes men, "acting" department heads and vacant spots. Maybe if some of these positions were filled, he'd have to go through more layers of reasonable people before being presented with a decision to make in the first place. We are where we are though and it looks like this is just the way it's going to be.

 

[FullMonte]

And just to fact check the claim, the Obama administration didn't "give" funds to Iran. It released previously frozen Iranian assets (meaning it was theirs) base on certain compliance after the deal was implemented.

And...to add to that...

The US returned $1.7 billion of Iran's money back to them....AND Iran paid $2.5 billion in settlements to US businesses and citizens.

 

[JimEverett]

And...to add to that...

The US returned $1.7 billion of Iran's money back to them....AND Iran paid $2.5 billion in settlements to US businesses and citizens.

That is true that Iranian sources paid $2.5 billion but that is irrelevant to what we are discussing. Those are private claims, and were mostly paid in the early 80s. We are discussing inter-governmental claims. We did not "owe" Iran the $400 million. We had offsets that totaled far more - and we have not collected them.

 

[insidejob]

I'm with you. This cost 176 innocent lives - if the damn commercial airport was open, precautions had to be taken to keep this from happening. It's crazy that IKA would be open under such circumstances. You can see why FAA had ordered US flights deviate (about an hour before the incident, I believe).

And all of those countries whose citizens were murdered in this screw up would probably like an explanation better than "Oops!" The IRG is claiming this is a conspiracy to turn sentiment against them.

 

[The moose]

And all of those countries whose citizens were murdered in this screw up would probably like an explanation better than "Oops!" The IRG is claiming this is a conspiracy to turn sentiment against them.

The only thing is crap rolls down hill.

It looks like our president started the crap without support of Congress at all and won't even give them a good brief after the fact.

How much keeps rolling down hill.

The optics are that he at least escalated it if not start it.

 

[Archies Ghost]

I'm with you. This cost 176 innocent lives - if the damn commercial airport was open, precautions had to be taken to keep this from happening. It's crazy that IKA would be open under such circumstances. You can see why FAA had ordered US flights deviate (about an hour before the incident, I believe).

This is, allegedly, photographic evidence of the missile debris from the crash site. The oldest hit on the internet for this image is 7 hours so it may be legit.

For comparison:

9K330/9K331/9K332 Tor M/M1/M2 Self Propelled Air Defence System / SA-15 Gauntlet / Cамоходный Зенитный Ракетный Комплекс 9К330/9К331//9K332 "Тор М/М1/М2"

SA-15 Gauntlet, Scrum Half, 9K330, 9K331, Tor, Surface to Air Missile, SAM

www.ausairpower.net

I hope that the innocent lives lost generate some meaning in the international community finally becoming united in opposition to the behavior of the Iranian regime.

 

[The moose]

This is, allegedly, photographic evidence of the missile debris from the crash site. The oldest hit on the internet for this image is 7 hours so it may be legit.

Wow would not think it would look that intact.

Would figure it would be fragments but passenger planes are really not built to take fire.

 

[FullMonte]

https://apnews.com/f53aeebcb0f64b76a2e2a54b2b002dad

Info on the money to Iran, I have heard several things in the last few days that don't add up, this is a short explanation. Iran paid 400 million to the US for weapons back in the 70s. Iran government overthrown, weapons not delivered. After the Iran Nuc deal, Iranian assets were unfrozen and the US paid back the 400 million and also included 1.3 billion in interest and that was sent via cargo plan as cash. I am not good in math, so I have no idea what interest rate was used.

Since I'm actually studying this in a course at LA Tech right now, I figured I'd use it as a practice problem. According to the tables we were provided, using a $400,000,000 original payment, a $1,700,000,000 final payment, and a term of 40 years, I come up with an interest rate of close to 3.75%.

 

[FullMonte]

That is true that Iranian sources paid $2.5 billion but that is irrelevant to what we are discussing. Those are private claims, and were mostly paid in the early 80s. We are discussing inter-governmental claims. We did not "owe" Iran the $400 million. We had offsets that totaled far more - and we have not collected them.

The point I was making is that as part of that agreement, we paid Iran $1.7 billion, and they paid out $2.5 billion. That means that they actually lost approximately $800 million. So, they didn't end up with money they could spend on missiles, because they spent more than we gave them.

 

[JimEverett]

The point I was making is that as part of that agreement, we paid Iran $1.7 billion, and they paid out $2.5 billion. That means that they actually lost approximately $800 million. So, they didn't end up with money they could spend on missiles, because they spent more than we gave them.

But that is not what happened, is it? Do you have a source for that?

The $2.5b number is the number Iranian entities paid out through the U.S.-Iranian claims court. U.S. entities also paid out a substantial amount as well. But those were private contracts - businesses and individuals. And most of that, though not all, was completed within a few years of the court being founded in 1981.

I am not aware of the "Agreement" that resulted in the U.S. government paying the Iranian government $1.7b also required or resulted in the Iranian government paying out $2.5b to the U.S. government. I think your facts are wrong.

 

[The moose]

But that is not what happened, is it? Do you have a source for that?

The $2.5b number is the number Iranian entities paid out through the U.S.-Iranian claims court. U.S. entities also paid out a substantial amount as well. But those were private contracts - businesses and individuals. And most of that, though not all, was completed within a few years of the court being founded in 1981.

I am not aware of the "Agreement" that resulted in the U.S. government paying the Iranian government $1.7b also required or resulted in the Iranian government paying out $2.5b to the U.S. government. I think your facts are wrong.

A novel idea then post your link!

 

[JimEverett]

A novel idea then post your link!

Feel free to look it up. I searched for the $2.5b and only found what I described.

 

[The moose]

Feel free to look it up. I searched for the $2.5b and only found what I described.

I would like to think the dude telling everyone they are wrong would want to post a link.

It just tells me you don't want the facts checked on what ever right wing blog site you got it from.

It is the same game every time you are wrong and I have no facts!

Hopefully it is a better source than that one posted pajamas or what ever.

Can ya come up with a new game?

 

[superchuck500]

I would like to think the dude telling everyone they are wrong would want to post a link.

It just tells me you don't want the facts checked on what ever right wing blog site you got it from.

It is the same game every time you are wrong and I have no facts!

Hopefully it is a better source than that one posted pajamas or what ever.

Can ya come up with a new game?

Or, how about we be nice and just say that his position would be more credible with some verification.

 

[BobE]

Or, how about we be nice and just say that his position would be more credible with some verification.

Ain't nobody got time for all that.

 

[dtc]

You guy really need to just lighten up a little sometimes.. It was just a little humor is all...

But I have to be brutally honesty... Some of you along with the democratic party.. This is how you guys are acting since your candidate lost the election. All this the world is coming to and End because Trump is in office. The impeachment process BS is a sure sign of that.

Just once, instead of berating me about how Bad Trump is... I'd like for some of you guys to just own up to the fact that Hillary was probably not the best choice for presidential candidate, and right now the Democratic Candidates really aren't looking that great and neither are some of their platforms.

There is nothing Hillary could do that would make me accept an immoral, lying sack of human excrement as POTUS.

Nothing.

You are employing a false framework in which you are allowing yourself to excuse the immorality and failures of one person because of something some other folks decided years ago.

It's akin to excusing your friend raping a child because the neighbor didn't do a good job trimming his hedges. And, for what it's worth, it puts those who choose to defend it in the ugly position of defending a molester.

Furthermore, there is no platform anyone could propose at this date that would make a single member on this forum believe that you would support them to the exclusion of Trump because it's not actually his policies you support.

 

[dtc]

If Iran misfired that missile and it took out the passenger airline, I think that's probably the reason they laid off the attack so quickly and sent all of the cables through other nations that they were done.

I don't actually think they were scared of US retaliation, but rather knew they'd seriously screwed up and needed to put out the flames quickly, so they'd have a chance to cover this up. This mistake by them has much bigger and long term ramifications (in terms of relations with other country and possible fall out), than current hostility with the US. I'd kind of been thinking that all this time, but wanted to wait and see if there were stronger suspicion that it was an errant missile.

I think Joe may find it ironic that I find their "accidental" downing of a civilian aircraft to be so callous and without regard for human life that I would have no problem if Trump ordered a bombing of significant military assets in Iran. Or, take out the entire airport.

Killing 170 people by mistake because you're a belligerent little bugger is inexcusable.

 

[The moose]

Or, how about we be nice and just say that his position would be more credible with some verification.

Yeah I understand

Yet it is so tiresome the same game over and over and over and over.

I would not tell anyone they are wrong about anything whatsoever without at least a couple of reasons besides I said so.

Oh and buy the way you prove me wrong cuz I am not grown enough to defend my stance.

The real reason I check in here is to save time and not scour the net for breaking news and other points of view.

It does not work with the your wrong cuz I said so thing.