All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (11 Viewers)

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    Maxp

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    I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?
     
    Dadsdream said:
    Our good friends at MoveOn.org (founded in 1998 to oppose the Clinton impeachment) have now issued a petition calling for an end coverage of the president's daily coronavirus briefings.

    More than 120,000 people have signed a petition calling on news broadcasters to stop providing live coverage of the White House's briefings on the coronavirus outbreak.

    Accusing President Donald Trump of using each briefing as a "live campaign rally," the petition, which has been published on MoveOn.org, asks CNN, ABC, CBS NBC, NPR and Fox News to consider whether it is necessary to livestream the COVID-19 press conferences in full.

    "President Trump is blatantly using the news organizations' extensive, live coverage to freely campaign for a second term," the petition claims. "It is wrong and dangerous to provide so much unfettered airtime to someone who is happily, shamelessly spreading terrible, damaging misinformation that is already costing fellow Americans their lives."

    www.newsweek.com

    Over 200,000 Call for End to Live Coverage of Trump Coronavirus Briefings

    "Leave the President's insults, false braggadocio, and outright lies on the editing room floor, where they belong," the petition states.
    www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
    Click to expand...


    I would like to not see the pillow guy get down on his knees and service him instead of give us facts.

    The whole shirt show is just that.

    He is using them as rallies rather than give us the data we need to stay safe.

    It is quite tiresome for people looking for information.

    He should just step back and allow the experts talk about real stuff.

    The one yesterday calling on the pro life person to ask if abortion clinics are giving up their PPE was completely stupid on so many levels.

    The real thing is impossible for him be honest and give us facts.

    Let's not pick on Democrat govnerors. How about we don't do me a favor thing.

    The you get supplies if you are not critical if this administration.

    Sounds similar to that impeachment thing
     
    Dadsdream said:
    Yes, fact checking first then posting would be prudent.
    Click to expand...
    I didn't have time to factcheck, so I stated that I would, but I posted the stuff that I wasn't aware of. The fact remains that Trump was an anti-vaxer until about 3 years ago, so that is still ridiculous. I believe the rest of the stuff that I didn't know about are true, since Superchuck posted most of them, and he has credibility with me. Care to comment on the rest of Superchuck's information that lays out how horrible this administration has been on virus threats? I will go back later tonight to read the links to the information.
     
    Lapaz said:
    Care to comment on the rest of Superchuck's information that lays out how horrible this administration has been on virus threats?
    Click to expand...
    A few pages back, you'll find that I addressed the matter of cutbacks in strategic stockpiles of biological contagion stores over the past 30 years.
     
    Saintamaniac said:
    In case everyone didn't already know, we've all seen a good bit of this guy's posts and it's dedicated to "defenses" of Trump.
    It's a totally self-serving echo chamber regardless of the facts that run counter to pretty much everything he posts. He's not worth putting on ignore as it's quite interesting to see the new BS he will post as soon as the Republican talking points are updated.
    Click to expand...

    It's also an indication that the denial is not just a river in Egypt quip is still alive and well....
     
    superchuck500 said:
    First let me thank you Jim for you engagement on the record (though it's the kind of thoughtful response I'd expect from you).

    And to be clear, my view on the role of Trump (and, to be clear, his administration - not solely the president though we know he leads in a certain style that demands adherence to his viewpoint) does not include the idea that Trump is "responsible for every death", I don't think that's a fair assessment and I would never say that.

    From what I have read about PREDICT, the elements of the program that provide forward study of emerging pathogens had all but been shutdown by last year - the remaining elements of the program included educational outreach were still functioning to the end of the funding cycle, but ending of funding meant the end of the program (once remaining funds were exhausted). I think you're right that it's not solely attributable to the White House, but it hasn't appeared in any Trump budget request and the political leadership within the agency (run by the White House) became less interested in the program according to an October 2019 piece in the NYT . . . that I actually started a thread about in October of last year on the PDB.

    www.nytimes.com

    Scientists Were Hunting for the Next Ebola. Now the U.S. Has Cut Off Their Funding. (Published 2019)

    Predict, a government research program, sought to identify animal viruses that might infect humans and to head off new pandemics.
    www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com


    I know that some have suggested that the disbanding of the pandemic team at the NSC/White House was really more of a reorganization but I think that's questionable both as a matter of the record and in Trump's own words. He was asked specifically about the decision to no longer carry those duties and he said something to the extent of "I don't want to pay people to be around if I don't need them - we know who they are we can call them when we need them" (my characterization not an exact quote - I'll see if I can find it).

    My point is that there is a cumulative effect of all of these things. An anti-science, anti-global viewpoint combined with a misplaced sense that this was not something that America would have to deal with, and topped off with a conviction that messaging alone mitigate economic harm have made this experience worse than it could have been.

    Even if you accept that it's unlikely we could have predicted this particular virus and the timing of the outbreak (I'll certainly agree that was next to impossible), the US should have pivoted to a preparedness posture not later than mid-February. The initial travel limitations re: China were appropriate and bought us a little bit of time (more time could have been bought with additional travel limitations in other outbreak areas but presumably those were too economically disruptive) - time that could have been used to activate a federal response, to acquire equipment, to launch production to meet shortfalls.


    apnews.com

    Trump disbanded NSC pandemic unit that experts had praised

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Public health and national security experts shake their heads when President Donald Trump says the coronavirus "came out of nowhere" and “blindsided the world.”
    apnews.com apnews.com

    Click to expand...
    I have really tried to avoid social media except for this site and another, but when you are trying to get up-to-date information during this it is almost inevitable you have to use it. And with that along with some of the traditional media I get annoyed at what I think are people trying to score political points through this - and a lot of it, at least that strikes me as very over the top - comes from the anti-Trump crowd. Hell, before this really hit us there were people saying they would welcome the economy tanking from it in order to get Trump out of office come January 2021. Not saying you, of course, that was just the genesis of my saying Trump was responsible for every death.

    Having said that - I think most criticism should be saved till after this is over and we know much more. But, clearly Trump has mishandled aspect of this. I think his messaging has been confusing, I also think that it is absolutely pathetic that we did not have testing and that we were not ready with plenty of PPE for medical professionals. Even while downplaying this thing back in January and February his Administration should have been working on securing those things just in case.
     
    Gentlemen and/or ladies as the case may be,
    You are invited to take your negative sentiments about me as a person and a poster to the Mud Pit.
    Yours truly,
    Dadsdream

    1585680905833.png
     
    I think Congressman Massie was right to force a vote to show who supported this bill. There was a reason why Congress and the Senate wanted a voice vote so they wouldn't be on record of supporting the bill.

    www.rollingstone.com

    Bailing Out the Bailout

    It will take years to sort through the details, but Trump’s $2 trillion COVID-19 response looks like a double-down on the last disaster
    www.rollingstone.com www.rollingstone.com
     
    Dadsdream said:
    Gentlemen and/or ladies as the case may be,
    You are invited to take your negative sentiments about me as a person and a poster to the Mud Pit.
    Yours truly,
    Dadsdream

    1585680905833.png
    Click to expand...
    No. This is not something that needs to go to the Mud Pit. You have been given positive proof of trumps own words and actions showing him to be a liar and spreading false information and you actively choose to ignore the information that is being presented based on some ridiculous excuse about the person who posted rather than the information (accurate and true) that is being presented. These are not "negative sentiments" about you. These are TRUE sentiments about your refusal to acknowledge truthful information because it runs counter to your narrative. You will not be running from this. OWN IT!
     
    SFIDC3 said:
    It's also an indication that the denial is not just a river in Egypt quip is still alive and well....
    Click to expand...

    Oh snap, you go girl!

    I mean, as long as we are bringing back "quips" teenage girls used back in the 90's.
     
    Dadsdream said:
    A few pages back, you'll find that I addressed the matter of cutbacks in strategic stockpiles of biological contagion stores over the past 30 years.
    Click to expand...
    Let's say it is true that the strategic stockpile has been reduced over the last 30 years, that doesn't excuse Trumps multiple actions taken to further erode our preparations, and actions to ignore requests to restock, and actions to give away the some of the remaining stock.
     
    JimEverett said:
    I have really tried to avoid social media except for this site and another, but when you are trying to get up-to-date information during this it is almost inevitable you have to use it. And with that along with some of the traditional media I get annoyed at what I think are people trying to score political points through this - and a lot of it, at least that strikes me as very over the top - comes from the anti-Trump crowd. Hell, before this really hit us there were people saying they would welcome the economy tanking from it in order to get Trump out of office come January 2021. Not saying you, of course, that was just the genesis of my saying Trump was responsible for every death.

    Having said that - I think most criticism should be saved till after this is over and we know much more. But, clearly Trump has mishandled aspect of this. I think his messaging has been confusing, I also think that it is absolutely pathetic that we did not have testing and that we were not ready with plenty of PPE for medical professionals. Even while downplaying this thing back in January and February his Administration should have been working on securing those things just in case.
    Click to expand...
    I appreciate the sentiment of holding criticism, but if those criticisms are held, it will embolden Trump to double down on his misdeeds. He needs to hear the criticism to listen to experts on all sorts of matters. He is far from the genius that he fancies himself. Unfortunately, the people who know the least are often the people who think they know the most. The criticisms have served some purposes, because, among other things, they got him to realize that he shouldn't re-open by Easter.
     
    A clip in this video gives you some idea how the WHO bends the knee for China. Watch as how the WHO
    representative pretends he can't hear the question:



    Pretty lame, and disgusting.
     
    Lots of Iraq War deja vu in here.....Including the Fox News propaganda.

    Interestingly, some of the same people that were apologizing for Bush then are in here going through the same mental gymnastics routines to excuse Trump’s leadership. Leadership that is likely to reach the milestone of 1000 dead in one day tomorrow with no sign of slowing down soon. Even though we were promised tomorrow would be the day the virus was gone form the US, justifying the lack of urgency and action for months.

    It’s definitely surreal and highly disconcerting to realize how people truly can’t learn from their mistakes, and many, seem to have no interest in doing so.
     
    Lapaz said:
    Let's say it is true that the strategic stockpile has been reduced over the last 30 years, that doesn't excuse Trumps multiple actions taken to further erode our preparations, and actions to ignore requests to restock, and actions to give away the some of the remaining stock.
    Click to expand...

    1585695861701.png


    No comment.
     
    SaintForLife said:
    Easter was never a firm deadline. Trump said he hoped we could be open by Easter. He shouldn't have said that, but let's not act like he said it would happen.
    Click to expand...

    But, that's Trump's go to move...let me say something might happen, and then wait and see what the response is....

    "I might testify."
    "I might sit down and interview with Mueller."
    "I might pardon Mike Flynn."
    "I might pardon Roger Stone."
    etc..etc....
     

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