The Joe Biden 2020 tracker thread (6 Viewers)

Joe Okc said:

I NEVER said that... I did not even come close to even insinuating that. And I have to ask why you would even falsely accuse me of such a thing.

What I said exactly was, and what I have maintained all along is this.



Now can you explain to me that with this being my stance that you have concluded that I think it's ok to not give welfare to people that are working but struggling?

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I apologize, I misinterpreted what you were saying. You kept making a statement that valued farmers over other working poor, which seemed to me to be saying that either they are better than other working poor, or deserved welfare more. Because giving money to someone who did not get it from the free market is welfare.

You also seem to be under the impression that people collecting welfare aren't working, or aren't trying to work. Which is not backed up by statistics that I'm familiar with.

The moose said:

Joe love you bro

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Thank You Moose.. I honestly appreciate that. I think totally different of you now my friend.

UncleTrvlingJim said:

I apologize, I misinterpreted what you were saying. You kept making a statement that valued farmers over other working poor, which seemed to me to be saying that either they are better than other working poor, or deserved welfare more. Because giving money to someone who did not get it from the free market is welfare.

You also seem to be under the impression that people collecting welfare aren't working, or aren't trying to work. Which is not backed up by statistics that I'm familiar with.

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No.. my stance is very simple... I just do not view Farm Substities as Welfare...

I view welfare go to a person working or not that is having finacial difficulties... But they are just working a job... as in McDonalds. Groundskeeper.. Or Stip Club DJ...

I view the Farm substances as monies given to small business that is struggling due to no fault of their own due to government regulations placed upon them.. Such as Tariffs... But their Output is essential to our nation. Where as the output of a Strip club DJ is non essential.

I guess the simple answer from me is:
Welfare helps the individual and is not essential
Farm Subsidies help the Nation and is essential.

This is not like a farmer going down to sign up for welfare. He already has money coming in. If he wanted to he could shut down production or scale back and save money until the market changes.. The working individual cannot do that.

Also, farm substidies rely on Natural events like floods, frosts, and drought. This does not affect the indivigual on this level but yet effects food prices throughout the USA.

Joe Okc said:

No.. my stance is very simple... I just do not view Farm Substities as Welfare...

I view welfare go to a person working or not that is having finacial difficulties... But they are just working a job... as in McDonalds. Groundskeeper.. Or Stip Club DJ...

I view the Farm substances as monies given to small business that is struggling due to no fault of their own due to government regulations placed upon them.. Such as Tariffs... But their Output is essential to our nation. Where as the output of a Strip club DJ is non essential.

I guess the simple answer from me is:
Welfare helps the individual and is not essential
Farm Subsidies help the Nation and is essential.

This is not like a farmer going down to sign up for welfare. He already has money coming in. If he wanted to he could shut down production or scale back and save money until the market changes.. The working individual cannot do that.

Also, farm substidies rely on Natural events like floods, frosts, and drought. This does not affect the indivigual on this level but yet effects food prices throughout the USA.

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Fair enough, but I think that's a pretty fine distinction. The farms that can't make it are the small farmers, if they go out of business, a larger farm takes them over, and we, the consumer keeps going on. Small farms are not essential to the nation - if they go under, someone else will take them over.

I do understand your distinction about subsidies being something to help out due to other policies the government enacted that harmed them.

At the end of the day though, you're giving money to help out one group of people because they can't do it on their own.

UncleTrvlingJim said:

At the end of the day though, you're giving money to help out one group of people because they can't do it on their own.

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Well that's the thing Jim.. They were doing great on their own until the government issued the tariffs and raised the prices above the fair market value that the Free Market had already set... It was because the government stepped in and raised prices through the tariffs that the farmers struggled. If the government had not have done that then the Farmers would have been fine and never needed a subsidy.

Let's use the example again of the McDonalds worker again.. Let's say that he is working 40 hours a week and all is fine... But the Government steps in and says: "McDonald's Cheeseburgers need to go up by an extra Dollar."... This causes a drop in sales and McDonalds has to lay people off because of it.. Then the Government steps in and gives McDonalds Subsidies to pay their workers so they can keep them working."

That is NOT Welfare.

Now in your scenario of the small farms.. Yes.. The days of small farms are long gone and that is a shame... It really is my biggest heart break...

But you said this: "Small farms are not essential to the nation - if they go under, someone else will take them over."

I have to laugh because you talk just like a stripper and/or musician.. They really don;t give a flip about club owners.. Because they know if a Club owners fails.. A new owner will walk right in to the property and open up and they will still have a place to strip/play... over and over again.

BTW @UncleTrvlingJim .. I am not trying to be hard headed, stubborn or argue...

It is just my opinion and how I see it...

Joe Okc said:

BTW @UncleTrvlingJim .. I am not trying to be hard headed, stubborn or argue...

It is just my opinion and how I see it...

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No problem at all. I actually understand your position on this and I think it makes sense and is defensible. I just think the net effect is basically the same. Everyone can claim that government policies have effected them in some way - some positively, some negatively. In your case with the farmers, there is an easy direct line between government action and the effect on the farmers.

UncleTrvlingJim said:

So, I find it interesting that you think O'Rourke apologizes for being white - I tried to find the actual quote for him, but I just a bunch of op-eds accusing him of apologizing for being white. I do see examples him of acknowledging that being white has given him some advantages that others not born white might have had -- is that what you're talking about? If so, what do you find irksome about believing that on average, white people are less likely to have disadvantages because of their race than non-white people? I can show you statistics that back that up if it would help.

What do you think makes Trump fit for office? Was it his stellar business career? His even keeled response to criticism? His maturity? His kindness? I know you said you only turn to him based on his opposition, but let's say compare him to Biden - why do you think Trump is more fit for office than Biden?

I also think it's problematic to define yourself based on the supposed opposition. You're not the only one who I've heard say they've become Trump backers to some degree based on statements made by Democrats. That seems a little weird to me -- that you'd back a person that you might think is loathsome because his opponents have said things you disagree with.

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Really? Because the rallying call of the Democratic debates has been "no matter who is the nominee, we have got to unite to get Trump out of office."

I have also heard from Democrats who have said they will vote for Biden despite the corruption he and his family have apparently been involved in and Biden's diminished mental capacity - because Biden is not Trump.

"Blue no matter who" seems to be the sentiment.

GMRfellowtraveller said:

My general question to the ‘socialism bad’ crowd
Is there a capitalist you can think of who has improved the quality of your life more than Eugene Debs has improved the quality of your life?
(It’s only sort of a gotcha question bc I realize there might actually be a capitalist I’m overlooking who could be brought up here)

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people who have such disdain for "socialist" doesn't realize just how many programs the US already has that can arguable fall under it.
Many that help, and improve their way of life.

public schooling
Public transportation
Fire departments
Police departments
Public libraries
Every branch of the US military
Roads & highways
Social Security
Medicare/medicaid

zztop said:

people who have such disdain for "socialist" doesn't realize just how many programs the US already has that can arguable fall under it.
Many that help, and improve their way of life.

public schooling
Public transportation
Fire departments
Police departments
Public libraries
Every branch of the US military
Roads & highways
Social Security
Medicare/medicaid

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40 hour work week
child labor laws
minimum wage

it's actually way more ridiculous than the "What have the Romans ever done for us" scene in Life of Brian

Joe Okc said:

Even if you took those that sit on their porch and collected welfare out of the equation.. It still does not compare...

A person that works but need extra help does not compare to what is given to maintain the food supply... For example... Lets take a lower paid income job and use it as an example. All Fast food workers could go on strike and we as a nation would get by without fast food tacos and cheeseburgers.... But if all farmers went on strike our nation did not have any food, the nation could get close to anarchy.


There is a huge difference in lending a helping hand, and keep one of our nations vital sources in operations.

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So I guess what I was getting at is the larger problem that I see..Not that we have a plethora of individuals who are lazy and increasingly want a hand out..But that we have a government that has for too long been giving handouts to corporations and the mega rich while leaving the individual workers, people who are eager for workforce training and to provide for their families -- out to dry. I agree wholeheartedly that farmers are the backbone of this nation, and it saddens me that US trade policy has increasingly become anti-farmer and increasingly pro-megacorp (Monsanto, etc).

But you see this with every industry. Tech, manufacturing, food, autos, health insurance, pharma, etc. You have more and more big companies gobbling up and bullying smaller competition and these companies are infiltrating our nation's democratic institution. That is what ultimately worries me each day.

GMRfellowtraveller said:

40 hour work week
child labor laws
minimum wage

it's actually way more ridiculous than the "What have the Romans ever done for us" scene in Life of Brian

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It’s really not. And as you vehemently defend the left and their ideals, that is as comical as Life Of Brian to me. We all have our perspective.

As an aside, Python is amazing. The Grail was their best tho imo.

So what part was laughable @V Chip?
The part where I almost died last year? The part where my attorney told me I’d have been better off being a mooch on society and would have had my insurance immediately? Do you contribute to conversations or just drive by ‘LOL’ at everything?
That’s pretty open minded. Keep it up.
And if it is indeed you laughing at the part where I almost died, I’d love to meet you and we can talk in person. I’m in Beech Island right now for medical reasons and I see you’re outside Atlanta. That’s just a hop skip and a jump.

Humperdoo said:

So what part was laughable @V Chip?
The part where I almost died last year? The part where my attorney told me I’d have been better off being a mooch on society and would have had my insurance immediately? Do you contribute to conversations or just drive by ‘LOL’ at everything?
That’s pretty open minded. Keep it up.
And if it is indeed you laughing at the part where I almost died, I’d love to meet you and we can talk in person. I’m in Beech Island right now for medical reasons and I see you’re outside Atlanta. That’s just a hop skip and a jump.

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I've LOLed at many of your posts. You'd have to quote the one you find offensive so I'll know which one. I mean, I thought you saying Trump has been criticized more than any President in your lifetime when you're barely younger than me to be quite laughable, but you didn't mention anything about dying.

As I've said to others, as long as there are reaction emojis I'll use those when I feel an actual reply simply saying "this is a ridiculous statement" or "oh come on, you can't be serious?" will just be ignored or worse. I see reactions by people on all over the board that are never backed up with a reply. Why does it seem mine cause such consternation among the conservatives?

EDIT: I went back and found it, and I missed the part where you said you almost died this year. Rest assured, I'm not LOLing at that. I'm a bleeding-heart liberal for goodness sake!

So for clarity, I LOLed at this quote (I went back to the post from a reply to your post that quoted this same part, so mea culpa for not reading the whole post):

Lastly, It seems to me that anything Trump does or doesn’t do is criticized mercilessly. More so than any POTUS I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. I can see good and bad in people from both ‘sides’ but it sure looks like the left is unable and or unwilling to reciprocate that thought process.

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Heathen said:

So I guess what I was getting at is the larger problem that I see..Not that we have a plethora of individuals who are lazy and increasingly want a hand out..But that we have a government that has for too long been giving handouts to corporations and the mega rich while leaving the individual workers, people who are eager for workforce training and to provide for their families -- out to dry. I agree wholeheartedly that farmers are the backbone of this nation, and it saddens me that US trade policy has increasingly become anti-farmer and increasingly pro-megacorp (Monsanto, etc).

But you see this with every industry. Tech, manufacturing, food, autos, health insurance, pharma, etc. You have more and more big companies gobbling up and bullying smaller competition and these companies are infiltrating our nation's democratic institution. That is what ultimately worries me each day.

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I can;t argue any of that... For me.. I hate seeing this in the World.. Some call it Progress..

I see it in the club business as I look for real estate and property for sale or rent... The mom and pop places are going away so fast only to be replace by higher priced strip malls owned by Corporate American and Real estate developers...

Time... What a thing... I remember my Grandparents telling me about hitching up the horse and Wagons to go to the County to get a Marriage license.

This Little Store was very close to where I grew up.. Long before I ever came to OKC... It operated in the 30's and 40's... I am just putting it here because I just love all things about that period..

https://www.dailywire.com/news/ever...-ad-attacking-trump-over-coronavirus-response

This is about Biden's new ad out. Some topics we have discussed on this board as well.

It isn’t a Biden ad. It is a SuperPAC ad and they have no requirement to tell the truth thanks to Citizens United. And thanks to Jim we know if you are against their right to broadcast that ad, you are a bookburner.

Farb said:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/ever...-ad-attacking-trump-over-coronavirus-response

This is about Biden's new ad out. Some topics we have discussed on this board as well.

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That article is worth reading if for no other reason it contains links to sources that debunk some of the more common claims asserted against Trump. Perhaps if people took a look at that we would not see those claims repeated.