All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (16 Viewers)

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    Maxp

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    I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?
     
    MT15 said:
    It would be nice if he would maybe cancel his big money fundraiser appearances, then, and actually get on it. Or institute some actual transparency so we the people can be informed from one voice, instead of piecemeal by states and local governments. In the past 24 hours we have learned that the virus is basically loose in Northern California and now Oregon. We learned that from the states at the same time Trump is telling his rally that there are 15 cases and they’re all getting better. And blaming democrats for focusing on the virus.

    We have learned that someone in the Administration defied CDC recommendations about the transport of potentially infected American citizens. We also learned that federal workers sent to greet infected evacuees were not trained nor provided proper equipment to prevent their own infection.

    The CDC itself has developed a test that doesn’t work, and we don’t seem to know if or when they will fix it, further aiding the spread of the virus. And the administration isn’t letting us in on this situation either.

    So, no, this administration isn’t really doing a good job with this. Not with messaging. Probably not with anything about it.
    Click to expand...
    As much as I don’t like the guy, there are a few points here. First, the test is a 3 part test. The third part is the one with the issues. It’s the final confirmation part. The problem with the CDC test is that it is basically a perfect test, and this is an example where perfect gets in the way of good enough. Think of it as an instant strep test. Yes, they have one and places use it, but it’s only about 75% correct. Do you want to let people go out into society saying they are probably not infected? While I understand the ideas, this to me seems to be the hang up. What they need is a speedy accurate test, but so far that magic combo isn’t really there. They have speedy and pretty good which is why they have been testing numerous times on people.
    Second, as I’m sure you all learn during hurricane season, who do you want managing the moment to moment? Yeah I understand Trump spouting off about this and that isn’t providing any great leadership, but your state and county health departments are the closest and quickest to react. Now that the true measure of this is here, now those tighter rules are coming into play. But also, you can’t go max protection with everyone who walks in. There has to be a best practice and that is evolving. In California now, I’m sure when a patient comes in it will be treated much differently than if it’s a routine flu case.
    That was the state department and Trumps people that over rode the CDC. This is why you put good people in charge then listen to them. Instead of putting inept cronies who are loyal and want to cause disruption. Please, not a big fan of causing disruption with pandemics. Kinda like the nerdy guy who knows what he’s doing.
    You forgot Washington and Oklahoma also. There is also no way in gods green earth it isn’t in New York and probably Florida and New Orleans with Disney World and MardiGras.
    But yes, it’s all a Democrat hoax to make Trump look bad....
     
    Are you taking measures to prevent catching Coronavirus when you travel?

    Trump, “Well I think so, I get around” 🤣
     
    Mayor Pete is the only candidate not at the greatest risk of death due to the virus...
     
    Goatman saint said:
    As much as I don’t like the guy, there are a few points here. First, the test is a 3 part test. The third part is the one with the issues. It’s the final confirmation part. The problem with the CDC test is that it is basically a perfect test, and this is an example where perfect gets in the way of good enough. Think of it as an instant strep test. Yes, they have one and places use it, but it’s only about 75% correct. Do you want to let people go out into society saying they are probably not infected? While I understand the ideas, this to me seems to be the hang up. What they need is a speedy accurate test, but so far that magic combo isn’t really there. They have speedy and pretty good which is why they have been testing numerous times on people.
    Second, as I’m sure you all learn during hurricane season, who do you want managing the moment to moment? Yeah I understand Trump spouting off about this and that isn’t providing any great leadership, but your state and county health departments are the closest and quickest to react. Now that the true measure of this is here, now those tighter rules are coming into play. But also, you can’t go max protection with everyone who walks in. There has to be a best practice and that is evolving. In California now, I’m sure when a patient comes in it will be treated much differently than if it’s a routine flu case.
    That was the state department and Trumps people that over rode the CDC. This is why you put good people in charge then listen to them. Instead of putting inept cronies who are loyal and want to cause disruption. Please, not a big fan of causing disruption with pandemics. Kinda like the nerdy guy who knows what he’s doing.
    You forgot Washington and Oklahoma also. There is also no way in gods green earth it isn’t in New York and probably Florida and New Orleans with Disney World and MardiGras.
    But yes, it’s all a Democrat hoax to make Trump look bad....
    Click to expand...

    you may know more about the testing than I do, but from what I understand the test kits are useless because the QC is failing. What I read didn’t seem to indicate the three step part. And I do understand about lab testing, just not overly familiar with what the CDC put out for the rapid test. Do you have a link about it?

    Seeing that a patient in Washington State died today, and there may be an outbreak in a nursing home. There are 60 some confirmed cases, or almost confirmed, since they are still having to send samples to CDC for the testing, with the delays that causes.

    I remember for Ebola we drew up complete plans at the hospital. We had drills, and everyone knew exactly what to expect and exactly how to handle a potential patient and or their lab samples. This is a small to mid size community hospital, but with a large population of foreign students from everywhere in the world. So we were prepared, and knew what to expect. We’ve had a couple of potential Corona patients, and are not nearly as prepared. Stupid calls at 1 AM because the AA doesn’t know which swab to collect and bridge lines at 7AM to get everyone on the same page. It’s not the same level of preparedness.
     
    “This is their new hoax” referring to Democrats hitting him about the Coronavirus .

    What exactly is the correct interpretation? The virus itself? The Democratic criticism?

    Ultimately, what I see is Trump doing like China and Iran and trying to downplay the concern and silencing their own scientists, in this case, to own the libs. Including the misleading and dangerous rhetoric attempting to downplay the risk America faces.

    But defending the indefensible seems to be a routine job for many,
     
    Last edited:
    MT15 said:
    you may know more about the testing than I do, but from what I understand the test kits are useless because the QC is failing. What I read didn’t seem to indicate the three step part. And I do understand about lab testing, just not overly familiar with what the CDC put out for the rapid test. Do you have a link about it?

    Seeing that a patient in Washington State died today, and there may be an outbreak in a nursing home. There are 60 some confirmed cases, or almost confirmed, since they are still having to send samples to CDC for the testing, with the delays that causes.

    I remember for Ebola we drew up complete plans at the hospital. We had drills, and everyone knew exactly what to expect and exactly how to handle a potential patient and or their lab samples. This is a small to mid size community hospital, but with a large population of foreign students from everywhere in the world. So we were prepared, and knew what to expect. We’ve had a couple of potential Corona patients, and are not nearly as prepared. Stupid calls at 1 AM because the AA doesn’t know which swab to collect and bridge lines at 7AM to get everyone on the same page. It’s not the same level of preparedness.
    Click to expand...
    www.sciencemag.org

    The United States badly bungled coronavirus testing—but things may soon improve

    A faulty reagent in a test kit and bureaucratic hurdles have slowed testing for the virus that causes COVID-19
    www.sciencemag.org www.sciencemag.org
     
    Trump rallies could be a very dangerous gathering for people over 50. I wonder when we will start limiting public gatherings of large populations.
     
    Goatman saint said:
    www.sciencemag.org

    The United States badly bungled coronavirus testing—but things may soon improve

    A faulty reagent in a test kit and bureaucratic hurdles have slowed testing for the virus that causes COVID-19
    www.sciencemag.org www.sciencemag.org
    Click to expand...

    Thanks, I was thinking the test would be by PCR, which means it is highly specific.

    Im still not sure what the 3 steps are you referred to. PCR methodology doesn’t require a confirmatory step.

    We currently do our beta strep testing by PCR, it’s extremely specific and doesn’t require a confirmatory step. Your quote about only 75% specificity refers to the older methodology for beta strep testing. PCR is basically a one step test with built in QC, and the article you linked says that the negative control was coming up positive on the CDC kit, which invalidates the result.

    This is an uncharacteristic screw up for the CDC, as other countries have tests that are working correctly. New York State has developed a test that is working correctly and plans to ask for FDA to grant emergency approval. There is zero doubt that the inability to do rapid testing has set the US behind many other countries in their ability to properly respond and contain outbreaks.

    From the article:

    “CDC provided an update about the situation in an email but did not respond to Science’s request for an interview with a scientist to discuss the details of the problem. Mina stresses he has great respect for CDC’s competence overall, but says, “There’s no good explanation for what’s going on here.””
     
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    SaintForLife said:
    This sounds similar to how the media and Democrats lied about what Trump said about Charlottesville.

    Click to expand...


    So you object to this, which isn’t even really a lie but rather a reasonable interpretation of his rambling, but you are okay with Trump saying there are only 15 cases and that everyone is getting better and one day this virus will just disappear?

    you sure this is where you want to be on this issue?
     
    b30e5f1.png


    President Trump has a personal responsibility to visit & embrace all people in the US who contract Covid19.
     
    This is a great thread about the virus and incorporates newer data. It’s looking a bit better, folks, IMO.

     
    It only looks better for China because of the drastic measures they have taken to contain it. The reality in the US doesn't look very positive to me.
     
    Maxp said:
    It only looks better for China because of the drastic measures they have taken to contain it. The reality in the US doesn't look very positive to me.
    Click to expand...

    You mean sealing people shut in their homes??? I am pretty damn glad our government won't resort to that.
     
    So in the middle of the tweet thread he says that the mortality rate for the new cases in China seems to be 0.7% rather than the 2% we have seen before. I think this means that physicians are figuring out how to treat it. Also, that it seems to be containable, with some targeted isolations, we won’t have to resort to the draconian methods of China, IMO, with better education and early testing.

    There’s zero doubt there will be lots of new cases coming, but if they can treat it more effectively, and get testing earlier to figure out where they need to contain it, it’s looking better.

    Cautious optimism.
     

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