Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (1 Viewer)

This is where they are headed next.

MT15 said:

This is where they are headed next.

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Casual sex is okay. And you do have the freedom and right to engage in it as long as it's consensual and legal. I'm sorry that hurts their religious belifs.

coldseat said:

Casual sex is okay. And you do have the freedom and right to engage in it as long as it's consensual and legal. I'm sorry that hurts their religious belifs.

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And even if you don't think it's right, it's no one's business other than the 2 consenting adults. Besides, if people are believers, the book they believe has something to say about judging others.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13 NLT
It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside...

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Essentially, this is saying that for Christians, people who are outside the Church, what they do isn't the business of those in the Church. And of course there's this...

Matthew 7:1-2

Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. 2 For you will be treated as you treat others.[a] The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged.

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Pretty self explanatory.

DaveXA said:

And even if you don't think it's right, it's no one's business other than the 2 consenting adults. Besides, if people are believers, the book they believe has something to say about judging others.


Essentially, this is saying that for Christians, people who are outside the Church, what they do isn't the business of those in the Church. And of course there's this...

Matthew 7:1-2

Pretty self explanatory.

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Why do you think modern evangelicals and/or right wing Christians ignore this? Well, they also ignore a fair amount of Christ’s teaching, don’t they? I haven’t been a regular church-goer in decades, and my attendance as a child was off and on, but I remember vividly about judging others. It used to be emphasized, at least in the Lutheran and Presbyterian churches I attended from time to time. How is it that entire religious sects are abandoning it?

I have no idea what the hell evangelicals even worship these days. There's nothing, nothing at all about the carpenter from Nazareth that's compatible with what they say. Even Lucifer isn't that self-contradictory and f'd up.

MT15 said:

Why do you think modern evangelicals and/or right wing Christians ignore this?

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I think they ignore it because they either don't understand or misinterpret Scripture. They also often have poor teachers who don't understand even basic Christian apologetics. A lot of ministers set terrible examples in their own lives, and their congregations suffer because of it.

MT15 said:

Well, they also ignore a fair amount of Christ’s teaching, don’t they?

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They do unfortunately. They'll make excuses like, well, they're only human, can't help themselves, times are different now or what have you, but ultimately, we're all responsible for our own faith and behavior. There's no excuses.

I haven’t been a regular church-goer in decades, and my attendance as a child was off and on, but I remember vividly about judging others. It used to be emphasized, at least in the Lutheran and Presbyterian churches I attended from time to time. How is it that entire religious sects are abandoning it?

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I don't really know. A combination of all of the above and I think pastors and ministers have become too entangled with politics and power. And that certainly corrupts a lot of people's motives for doing things. I think churches have fallen into that trap and it's basically destroyed their original mission.

There is an old saying that goes: when you mix politics and religion you get politics.

bird said:

There is an old saying that goes: when you mix politics and religion you get politics.

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Accurate.

Optimus Prime said:

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Donald Trump’s latest position on abortion is, basically, “whatever.”

If antiabortion crusaders thought he was genuinely on their side, they should have been paying closer attention.


Earlier this year, he frequently boasted about having appointed three antiabortion Supreme Court justices who tipped the ideological balance on the court and overturned Roe v. Wade, which had been the law of the land for nearly half a century. “I did it, and I’m proud to have done it,” Trump said in January at a Fox News town hall.


Now, however, he’s uncharacteristically reserved on the issue. He wants to convince voters that he poses no further threat to abortion rights — hoping they will ignore the fact those rights have been erased in much of the country, thanks to Trump.

Democrats must not let him get away with this cynical ploy, which he has acknowledged is designed “to win elections.”


In a video posted to social media Monday, Trump said he believes whether or how to restrict abortion should be left to the states. He parrots some of the antiabortion movement’s rhetoric about the preciousness of life, and he tosses in an outrageous lie about pro-choice activists supporting infanticide, but his bottom line is that each state should decide for itself.

Pro-life groups were urging Trump to support federal legislation, and in recent months it sounded as though Trump might come out in favor of a national 15-week abortion ban.

What prompted the change to his new leave-it-to-the-states position? I’ll bet it has a lot to do with what’s happening in one state in particular — the state where Trump holds court in his lugubrious Mar-a-Lago estate.

The story begins with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) — “Ron DeSanctimonious,” in Trump’s coinage — who, because he wanted to be president, pushed the GOP-controlled state legislature to pass a 15-week abortion ban.

Then, after Roe v. Wade was struck down, DeSantis — who really, really wanted to be president — had the legislature pass an even more draconian six-week ban.


Neither measure took immediate effect, pending judicial review. Last week, the Florida Supreme Court — most of whose members were appointed by DeSantis — ruled in favor of the new restrictions.

The 15-week ban is now the law in Florida, but only until May 1, when the six-week ban will replace it. In the nation’s third-most-populous state, the right to choose will effectively be a thing of the past.


But also, perhaps, a thing of the future: In a separate case, the Florida court approved for the November ballot a referendum that would restore abortion rights by enshrining them in the state constitution.

From Trump’s point of view: Uh-oh.

Since the demise of Roe v. Wade, ballot measures to guarantee the right to abortion have been approved everywhere they have appeared — even in deep-red states such as Kansas and Kentucky.

In Ohio, citizens swept away a near-total abortion ban by voting in a landslide, 56.6 percent to 43.4 percent, to protect “the right to abortion up to fetal viability,” which is about 24 weeks.

These referendums tend to drive Democrats and rights-supporting independents to the polls in large numbers……..

All these politicians who say abortion should be a states rights issue should be asked if they support abortion being on the ballot so a state’s residents can decide
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GOP candidates running for Senate in swing states are largely embracing the states’ rights message on abortion that Donald Trump outlined yesterday.


The former president tried to defang the issue by neither endorsing nor explicitly ruling out a 15-week federal abortion ban, instead saying in a video message that states should determine their own abortion laws.


It’s the latest evolution of Republicans’ shifting position on abortion, as they have worked to find a message palatable for voters who have bucked Republican candidates’ antiabortion positions since Roe v. Wade was overturned nearly two years ago……

Optimus Prime said:

All these politicians who say abortion should be a states rights issue should be asked if they support abortion being on the ballot so a state’s residents can decide
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GOP candidates running for Senate in swing states are largely embracing the states’ rights message on abortion that Donald Trump outlined yesterday.


The former president tried to defang the issue by neither endorsing nor explicitly ruling out a 15-week federal abortion ban, instead saying in a video message that states should determine their own abortion laws.


It’s the latest evolution of Republicans’ shifting position on abortion, as they have worked to find a message palatable for voters who have bucked Republican candidates’ antiabortion positions since Roe v. Wade was overturned nearly two years ago……

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/09/gop-senators-hopefuls-fall-line-with-trumps-abortion-stance/

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All that does is guarantee state congress will change to democratic control in the next several years.

If the people are denied the right to vote on choice, the only option they have left is to vote out all the forced birthers and never allow them to have the power to take choice away from women again.

trump's words mean noting to most women. Most women don't believe a word from his or any republicans mouth about choice. We've heard way too many lies over the decades to fall for more lies.

If trump becomes president with a republican controlled congress, they will pass a national abortion ban and trump will sign it.

Most women will never trust republicans or conservatives again.

Arizona didn’t become a state for 48 more years after this law was passed.

superchuck500 said:

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Thanks Arizona SC for making it more likely that Biden wins Arizona again in November.

superchuck500 said:

Arizona didn’t become a state for 48 more years after this law was passed.

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Crazy.

No matter how you slice it, Monday was a setback for the antiabortion movement. The fact that a presumptive Republican presidential nominee took such pains to avoid taking a position on restricting abortion signals just how scared Donald Trump’s party is of this issue. It’s already leading other Republicans to adopt Trump’s hands-off approach.

Recognizing the danger in that emerging posture, the party’s antiabortion true believers have set about arguing that the party can still run and win on fierce opposition to abortion.
It’s an increasingly difficult argument to make.

Former Wisconsin governor Scott Walker (R) crystallized the argument late Monday.

“Every pro-life Governor up for re-election over the past 2 years has won big!” he wrote in response to the Biden campaign saying the issue would hurt Trump in the election.



Others similarly pointed to the large 2022 victories of Republican governors like Florida’s Ron DeSantis, Iowa’s Kim Reynolds, Ohio’s Mike DeWine, South Dakota’s Kristi L. Noem and Georgia’s Brian Kemp — all of whom have either signed or advocated for six-week abortion bans.

“Republicans win on life when we speak the truth boldly and stand on the principle that we all know to be true — human life begins at conception and should be defended from womb to tomb,” former vice president Mike Pence said. Pence was criticizing Trump’s posture to leave the issue to the states and not support a specific time frame for abortions.

It’s true that unapologetically antiabortion Republicans with strong brands have won, even since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in mid-2022 and recast the issue in Democrats’ favor. But the total picture is unmistakable: Abortion is indeed the liability Trump and Republicans are effectively now recognizing.

It bears emphasizing that four of the governors Walker mentioned were running in red states. Their margins were still impressive, even accounting for that, but their electorates lean to the right.

In addition, incumbency was historically strong in 2022, with just one governor losing. (Every incumbent senator seeking reelection also won.)

Just two of the governors mentioned signed six-week abortion bans before the election, and Kemp and DeWine did so long before — back in 2019. Both also treated the issue gingerly on the campaign trail. Kemp downplayed the issue relative to others and signaled that he didn’t want further abortion restrictions. DeWine was extensively attacked for his ban but didn’t feature the issue much, despite previously vowing to “go as far as we can” to prohibit abortions..............

Which brings us to the non-incumbents — those who don’t have a built-in brand. And when those Republicans went hard to the right on this issue in 2022, the results were awful for them.

Some of the GOP’s most underperforming candidates in 2022 were those who marginalized themselves on abortion — often before trying to pull back on their former positions. Some of those positions:

• Arizona Senate candidate Blake Masters had supported a fetal personhood law (effectively outlawing abortion) before scrubbing his website of the proposal.
• Arizona gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake had called for a six-week ban and called Arizona’s near-total abortion ban “great.”
• Michigan gubernatorial candidate Tudor Dixon said she wouldn’t even support an abortion exception for a 14-year-old rape victim, saying that “a life is a life.”
• Pennsylvania gubernatorial candidate Doug Mastriano said in 2019 that women who get illegal abortions should be charged with murder.
• Pennsylvania Senate candidate Mehmet Oz said abortion is “murder” at any stage.
• Now-Sen. J.D. Vance (R-Ohio) said in 2021 that he didn’t support rape and incest exceptions, because “two wrongs don’t make a right.” While Vance won, he far underperformed other statewide GOP candidates such as DeWine.

There’s a credible argument to be made that Republicans can oppose abortion and still win, provided they’re otherwise good candidates and don’t go so far as to support things like no-exceptions bans or jailing women. Perhaps some of these candidates’ hard-line abortion positions were less the cause of their defeats than symptomatic of their faults as candidates. (Many, for instance, also marginalized themselves on issues such as election denial.)..........

If pro life is such a great stance, why did this wacko change her tune?