SHOULD Biden run for a 2nd term? (6 Viewers)

Heathen said:

Okay.

January 12th





He hasn't done many of the things he promised. At least that matter to the youth - if this is the subject we're on.



He most certainly did have a majority. The fact that we're at the point where we can't distinguish Republicans from Democrats anymore and that hurts the D's in situations like this is squarely on the fault of the Democratic party. There should never be Democrats that have their own party's policies stymied. Another example of having to lie in the bed they made. Who's fault is it??



Once again, the Democrats DID have a majority house AND senate

Senate: Democrats had majority 51-50 (VP the tiebreaking vote)
House: Democrats had majority 222-211



He already had it. I'm not completely lambasting the guy - he's undoubtedly done some good things and I give him credit for that.

But I'm not going to sit here and pretend it's good enough to have democrat senators block legislation because no one can reliably predict they won't vote with Republicans.

How about we vote more predictable progressive (not moderate, not centrist) options into office? No one is saying it's a solve-all. But we already know what isn't working now don't we?

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Biden did NOT have a majority when It came to the environment, Siena and Manchin was against almost everything on that front. It is not like he can force them to vote for anything their donors did not like! The democrats tried everything and gave major consessions to get most of his bill through. If you want to blame anyone then blame those two. I am very concerned about the environment which my answers in other threads will prove and think that it is the absolute most urgent threat - not only against the US but every living being on this earth. But it is also very clear to me that Trump would be a disaster for the future of this planet. He would be the perfect "dont look up" president and our earth would be heading towards a very bleak future.

Heathen said:

So I " don't realize the risk to the country", yet I'm probably the only one here chastising the performance of the party that is in danger of losing to Trump once again. The GOP goes more right - the Democratic party shifts right to try to catch the right wingers who would normally never vote Blue but just can't stomach a Trump vote. So the whole party keeps the rightward shift. See how that works?

In other words, a major reason Trump won in the first place and has a great chance at winning now is related to the type of candidates the Democrats are putting up there for us all.

Surely you see that is a problem?

Biden has lost the young vote for this election cycle. I'm calling it now. Not every vote - but in large part. He's also going to lose a lot of minority votes, I believe.

Why should we not hold him accountable for that? I've heard six ways to Sunday that it's the voters fault, not the fault of the candidate, if the candidate loses.

It never makes any more sense.

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Heathen said:

Okay.

January 12th





He hasn't done many of the things he promised. At least that matter to the youth - if this is the subject we're on.



He most certainly did have a majority. The fact that we're at the point where we can't distinguish Republicans from Democrats anymore and that hurts the D's in situations like this is squarely on the fault of the Democratic party. There should never be Democrats that have their own party's policies stymied. Another example of having to lie in the bed they made. Who's fault is it??



Once again, the Democrats DID have a majority house AND senate

Senate: Democrats had majority 51-50 (VP the tiebreaking vote)
House: Democrats had majority 222-211



He already had it. I'm not completely lambasting the guy - he's undoubtedly done some good things and I give him credit for that.

But I'm not going to sit here and pretend it's good enough to have democrat senators block legislation because no one can reliably predict they won't vote with Republicans.

How about we vote more predictable progressive (not moderate, not centrist) options into office? No one is saying it's a solve-all. But we already know what isn't working now don't we?

Click to expand...

What is it that you think Biden promised that he failed to deliver on? And what do you think a more progressive president would have actually accomplished. And why?

Most analysis I've seen on legislation introduced and executive orders issued by the Biden place him slightly to the left of Obama and even further to the left of Clinton. Do you have an analysis that contradicts this?

He's canceled student debt even after some conservative judges blocked some of it. The Inflation Reduction Act has a lot of good climate change provisions in it. Unions have actually strengthened for the first time in decades. And he's issued a number of protections for LGBTQ citizens.

Presidents govern, they don't rule.

SteveSBrickNJ said:

Ahhh! The last paragraph bothers me. This country needs less progressives...not more.

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Why?

Heathen said:

Why?

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SteveSBrickNJ said:

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So could you describe it in your own words?

SteveSBrickNJ said:

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Tell that to the Great Compression.

The last time inequality was this big was the Gilded Age which was hardly a time of progressive government. Republican hypocrisy is a constant. A raging, malignant constant where some people believing that they are temporarily embossed millionaires vote for politicians and policies the transfer wealth upwards. Cognitive dissonance runs amok.

Heathen said:

How about we vote more predictable progressive (not moderate, not centrist) options into office? No one is saying it's a solve-all. But we already know what isn't working now don't we?

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You and I probably have very similar progressive ideologies. To me, a lot of the so-called "radical progressive" ideas would be bare minimum to start with. Reality is, we're probably 10-15 years away (unless something REALLY lights a fire under the young voter's arses - and results in a significant uptick of them taking action aka voting). I say all this because the older generations (boomers etc) tend to vote more/often. So as long as they are around, things will still kind of be cautious and more conservative. In 10-15 years, there will be less of that generation (as callous as that may sound) and we might finally start catching up to the rest of the developed world.

SteveSBrickNJ said:

SteveSBrickNJ

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I want to hear why you think the country needs less progressives.

Also, which group do you think the country needs more of?

zztop said:

You and I probably have very similar progressive ideologies. To me, a lot of the so-called "radical progressive" ideas would be bare minimum to start with. Reality is, we're probably 10-15 years away (unless something REALLY lights a fire under the young voter's arses - and results in a significant uptick of them taking action aka voting). I say all this because the older generations (boomers etc) tend to vote more/often. So as long as they are around, things will still kind of be cautious and more conservative. In 10-15 years, there will be less of that generation (as callous as that may sound) and we might finally start catching up to the rest of the developed world.

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I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately. You bring up a lot of good points and I agree. It will be interesting to see if certain policies that are 'radical' now will be more normalized to a point that they will be practical enough to become legislation in 10-15 years.

It isn't that I don't think that Democrats can't win, and yes, young people more generally support Democrats than Republicans.

One problem to me is that I believe Democrats policies are pretty objectively more popular than Republican ones, yet they repeatedly are impacted by Republican interference when trying to pass legislation. Personally, I think that if the Democrats were more open to pushing consistently for things that clearly distinguished them from Republicans....ie, a dedicated path to Medicare for all vs. the Republicans steadfast support of insurance as an industry....or a commitment to getting money out of politics vs Republicans dedication to turning the country into an Oligarchy..That would at least improve motivation and help younger electorate, which are largely becoming the far and away largest part of the Democrats base - to vote more consistently and passionately - and easily defeat the GOP without this consistent need to worry about the Trumps and Manchins and Sinemas of the world.

Clearly, those examples are FAR from the only issues. I was just thinking of a few examples that could improve motivation - which is a huge problem for young voters. They seem to see no point in trying because they see nothing changing. I guess that's always been a problem though, I dunno.

Here's a FUNNY One...

SteveSBrickNJ said:

Here's a FUNNY One...

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The problem is....this is our President.
For that reason it actually isn't that funny.

samiam5211 said:

So could you describe it in your own words?

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That would take too long.
I'm really busy.

SteveSBrickNJ said:

That would take too long.
I'm really busy.

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So instead of you spending 20 minutes typing out your thoughts, you gave us an hour of youtube videos to watch?

Heathen said:

I want to hear why you think the country needs less progressives.

Also, which group do you think the country needs more of?

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Moderates.
We need a country in which the majority of voters and legislators identify as "moderates."
THEN things might actually get done in congress and state houses.

SteveSBrickNJ said:

Moderates.
We need a country with the majority identifying as moderates.
THEN things might actually get done in congress.

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Moderates don't even agree with each other.

it is just a label people use that doesn't really mean that the group of people calling themselves moderates have a consistent view about anything. They could all have different opinions from each other on the important issues.

Heathen said:

I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately. You bring up a lot of good points and I agree. It will be interesting to see if certain policies that are 'radical' now will be more normalized to a point that they will be practical enough to become legislation in 10-15 years.

It isn't that I don't think that Democrats can't win, and yes, young people more generally support Democrats than Republicans.

One problem to me is that I believe Democrats policies are pretty objectively more popular than Republican ones, yet they repeatedly are impacted by Republican interference when trying to pass legislation. Personally, I think that if the Democrats were more open to pushing consistently for things that clearly distinguished them from Republicans....ie, a dedicated path to Medicare for all vs. the Republicans steadfast support of insurance as an industry....or a commitment to getting money out of politics vs Republicans dedication to turning the country into an Oligarchy..That would at least improve motivation and help younger electorate, which are largely becoming the far and away largest part of the Democrats base - to vote more consistently and passionately - and easily defeat the GOP without this consistent need to worry about the Trumps and Manchins and Sinemas of the world.

Clearly, those examples are FAR from the only issues. I was just thinking of a few examples that could improve motivation - which is a huge problem for young voters. They seem to see no point in trying because they see nothing changing. I guess that's always been a problem though, I dunno.

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Problem is that the US voters are not ready for that and it is going to take years before they are. People are more worried that they may pay a neighbors medical bill through their taxes than what actually would benefit everyone most. That is one of the most obvious differences between the US and Scandinavia for example. That is also why you cant have free community college education ( I paid myself - why should I pay for others). It takes a huge mental change in other to achieve that. All those social benefits - medical, educational. environmental will keep running into the same barriers until people stop thinking "me and my rights" and start thinking "what benefits my children and childrens children and society as a whole" instead

UncleTrvlingJim said:

What is it that you think Biden promised that he failed to deliver on? And what do you think a more progressive president would have actually accomplished. And why?

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Sure. And let's be clear for a moment - it's not about "what I think", it's about facts. Hopefully you're aware of that.

Here are just a few (there are many more) - relating to important middle class and high priority issues:

Climate: He promised no more drilling on public lands and went back on that for a massive billion dollar project in Alaska (Willow).
Border/Immigration: He promised to end detention of migrant children at the border (remember how big of an issue this was with Trump?) but he hasn't stopped it and is now considering reinstating family detention
Detention centers/Immigration: Promised to end for profit detention centers. Didn't do that. Private prison companies used for Immigration detention have only grown under his watch.
Affordable housing: He promised to increase access to affordable housing including a framework for direct investment in construction of affordable housing units. That didn't happen.
Criminal justice reform - elimination of cash bail: Promised to eliminate it during his campaign. Didn't do that and hasn't brought it up during his campaign.

I don't know if a more progressive president would have accomplished more. A more progressive president isn't in the WH right now. That's irrelevant. We're discussing the current POTUS.

UncleTrvlingJim said:

Most analysis I've seen on legislation introduced and executive orders issued by the Biden place him slightly to the left of Obama and even further to the left of Clinton. Do you have an analysis that contradicts this?

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You brought this up, not me. Completely different discussion. Don't frame it as though I am contradicting anything.

UncleTrvlingJim said:

He's canceled student debt even after some conservative judges blocked some of it. The Inflation Reduction Act has a lot of good climate change provisions in it. Unions have actually strengthened for the first time in decades. And he's issued a number of protections for LGBTQ citizens.

Presidents govern, they don't rule.

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There have been some great things that Biden has done. I am not denying that.

One can strongly critique their party's candidate for one set of decisions while acknowledging and providing accolades to what they've done right.

We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Dragon said:

Problem is that the US voters are not ready for that and it is going to take years before they are.

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In the least, this could easily be argued:

CNBC Survey from 2019
Keep in mind these numbers below include republican and independent feedback.
Medicare for all was widely supported amongst Dems at 81%


Reuters poll from 2018 shows broad Democratic support for MFA

I could go on

Also, were we not ready for the progressive reforms for the times that occurred in the 1920's? IMO they were absolutely more "hot button" than the ones above, at least comparatively.

Dragon said:

People are more worried that they may pay a neighbors medical bill through their taxes than what actually would benefit everyone most. That is one of the most obvious differences between the US and Scandinavia for example. That is also why you cant have free community college education ( I paid myself - why should I pay for others). It takes a huge mental change in other to achieve that. All those social benefits - medical, educational. environmental will keep running into the same barriers until people stop thinking "me and my rights" and start thinking "what benefits my children and childrens children and society as a whole" instead

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I'd definitely agree with most of this.

I think that yeah - we as a country have to start seeing that our government CAN and SHOULD work for us. People have been brainwashed into this idea that government is this evil thing you must get rid of instead of this thing that most definitely can be evil and we should be skeptical of...but that can also provide services to it's citizens that we deserve as Americans.

We're the richest country in the history of the world and have a middle class that is struggling more and more by the day just to get by. That delta just has to be figured out. We can't keep doing this and acting like it's fine and that our government as a function isn't rotten to the core with big money greed on both sides, which to me is one of if not THE biggest problem with the American government.