All Things LGBTQ+ (11 Viewers)

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Farb

Farb

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Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

  • The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
  • Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.
 
Farb said:
No, I get it. I honestly do, but we are talking about what I, personally believe, and I have actually held back a little for the choice of civil debate.
Click to expand...
You held it back because even you know it’s ridiculous.
 
Farb said:
So you mean sexually conscience? Because otherwise, you assume that being straight is a choice. It is not. It is how nature intended. Any deviation from that is a choice.
Click to expand...
Have some more science... p.s., I have 2 advanced degrees, one in medicine, and one in public health, so I may know what I'm talking about...

Study Says Brains of Gay Men and Women Are Similar

Brain scans provide evidence that sexual orientation is biological
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
 
Clearly @Farb wants this mess to happen...

Biblical-marriage.jpg
 
Farb said:
So you mean sexually conscience? Because otherwise, you assume that being straight is a choice. It is not. It is how nature intended. Any deviation from that is a choice.
Click to expand...
Being gay isn't a choice either.

The Lies and Dangers of Efforts to Change Sexual Orientation or…

www.hrc.org www.hrc.org
Click to expand...

"Research on the Impacts of Reparative Therapy, Harms Caused by Societal Prejudice

In 2007, a task force of the American Psychological Association undertook a thorough review of the existing research on the efficacy of conversion therapy. Their report noted that there was very little methodologically sound research on sexual orientation change efforts (SOCEs) and that the "results of scientifically valid research indicate that it is unlikely that individuals will be able to reduce same-sex attractions or increase other-sex sexual attractions through SOCE." In addition, the task force found that "there are no methodologically sound studies of recent SOCE that would enable the task force to make a definitive statement about whether or not recent SOCE is safe or harmful and for whom." Read the full report.

In short, there is clear evidence that conversion therapy does not work, and some significant evidence that it is also harmful to LGBTQ people.

In contrast, there is ample evidence that societal prejudice causes significant medical, psychological and other harms to LGBTQ people. For example, research on the issue of family acceptance of LGBTQ youth conducted at San Francisco State University found that "compared with LGBTQ young people who were not rejected or were only a little rejected by their parents and caregivers because of their gay or transgender identity, highly rejected LGBTQ young people were:
reparativeInfographic.png
"
 
BullSheetBuddha said:
Being gay isn't a choice either.



"Research on the Impacts of Reparative Therapy, Harms Caused by Societal Prejudice

In 2007, a task force of the American Psychological Association undertook a thorough review of the existing research on the efficacy of conversion therapy. Their report noted that there was very little methodologically sound research on sexual orientation change efforts (SOCEs) and that the "results of scientifically valid research indicate that it is unlikely that individuals will be able to reduce same-sex attractions or increase other-sex sexual attractions through SOCE." In addition, the task force found that "there are no methodologically sound studies of recent SOCE that would enable the task force to make a definitive statement about whether or not recent SOCE is safe or harmful and for whom." Read the full report.

In short, there is clear evidence that conversion therapy does not work, and some significant evidence that it is also harmful to LGBTQ people.

In contrast, there is ample evidence that societal prejudice causes significant medical, psychological and other harms to LGBTQ people. For example, research on the issue of family acceptance of LGBTQ youth conducted at San Francisco State University found that "compared with LGBTQ young people who were not rejected or were only a little rejected by their parents and caregivers because of their gay or transgender identity, highly rejected LGBTQ young people were:
reparativeInfographic.png
"
Click to expand...

For the truly anti-gay bigots like Farb, they must hold the line on it being a choice. It is the key to the entire doctrine.

And of course it’s not true. If they were ever willing to be honestly open with a gay person in their lives and talk about their experience, this would be patently obvious - even notwithstanding the various scientific study and observation of it in other species. Of course the unfortunate reality for most of these bigots is that they don’t have gay people in their lives or if they do, such a conversation could never honestly happen.

I grew up in a Republican household - that was very active in our church, we went every Sunday. I did the whole gamut from Sunday school to youth group to ushering and playing on the church’s sports teams. My parents were of the sort of “chamber of commerce” conservatives - not socially conservative activists. My mother owned a floral business with a lesbian couple. Our church’s choir leader was obviously gay (though not openly “out” but would admit it to trusted friends) and my parents liked him a lot, he came to dinner to our house on many occasions. Despite the Republican/Christian environment there simply was no indoctrination for me that gay people were deviant or wrong. I chalk it up to the Episcopal viewpoint to be honest but no matter its source, I saw my parents seeing these people as individuals about whose personal sexual orientation was irrelevant. But at the same token, my parents weren’t telling me that I “must accept gay people!” as some kind of other form of activism. It was simply that these people were treated no differently in our lives - they were simply family friends and we never really talked about their being gay apart from just acknowledging it.

Then, one of my good friends in high school - a strong, confident girl I had the utmost respect for - came out in college (and we all were happy and relieved for her because it made total sense). I knew gay people in law school. My social circle in my 20s had a gay guy and a lesbian whom I hung out with regularly. When I moved to DC I had a gay supervisor (an ex-Army JAG who was just an outstanding lawyer and a gifted leader) and one of my best work friends was a lesbian from Minnesota who was 15 years old than me but we still keep in touch because she’s awesome and hilarious.

These are good, hard working people living their lives just like the rest of us. And I have come to complete belief that their homosexuality was a natural course of development just the same as my heterosexuality was. My friend from high school married her girlfriend and they have three boys (two by IVF and one adopted) and a house in a town in Mississippi of all places. She coaches their baseball team and they go to country music concerts. They have a big Christmas party every year. They have the most loving, American family it’s almost out of Norman Rockwell except the parent couple happens to be two women.

The idea that these people have chosen a life of sin and should be denied rights in civil society on the basis of what some people think “God says” is utter bullshirt to me. These bigots can believe whatever they want but they don’t get to impose that onto civil society - and yes, it says far more about them than it does about gay people. They’re the ones actually out there bringing their ill will onto the lives of others. From the perspective of my “faith”, that’s far worse than living as a gay person. The idea that God somehow supports this kind of bigotry and discrimination is foul to me.
 
Last edited:
superchuck500 said:
For the truly anti-gay bigots like Farb, they must hold the line on it being a choice. It is the key to the entire doctrine.

And of course it’s not true. If they were ever willing to be honestly open with a gay person in their lives and talk about their experience, this would be patently obvious - even notwithstanding the various scientific study and observation of it in other species. Of course the unfortunate reality for most of these bigots is that they don’t have gay people in their lives or if they do, such a conversation could never honestly happen.

I grew up in a Republican household - that was very active in our church, we went every Sunday. I did the whole gamut from Sunday school to youth group to ushering and playing on the church’s sports teams. My parents were of the sort of “chamber of commerce” conservatives - not socially conservative activists. My mother owned a floral business with a lesbian couple. Our church’s choir leader was obviously gay (though not openly “out” but would admit it to trusted friends) and my parents liked him a lot, he came to dinner to our house on many occasions. Despite the Republican/Christian environment there simply was no indoctrination for me that gay people were deviant or wrong. I chalk it up to the Episcopal viewpoint to be honest but no matter its source, I saw my parents seeing these people as individuals about whose personal sexual orientation was irrelevant. But at the same token, my parents weren’t telling me that I “must accept gay people!” as some kind of other form of activism. It was simply that these people were treated no differently in our lives - they were simply family friends and we never really talked about their being gay apart from just acknowledging it.

Then, one of my good friends in high school - a strong, confident girl I had the utmost respect for - came out in college (and we all were happy and relieved for her because it made total sense). I knew gay people in law school. My social circle in my 20s had a gay guy and a lesbian whom I hung out with regularly. When I moved to DC I began I had a gay supervisor (an ex-Army JAG who was just an outstanding lawyer and a gifted leader) and one of my best work friends was a lesbian from Minnesota who was 15 years old than me but we still keep in touch because she’s awesome and hilarious.

These are good, hard working people living their lives just like the rest of us. And I have come to complete belief that their homosexuality was a natural course of development just the same as my heterosexuality was. My friend from high school married her girlfriend and they have three boys (two by IVF and one adopted) and a house in a town in Mississippi of all places. She coaches their baseball team and they go to country music concerts. They have a big Christmas party every year. They have the most loving, American family it’s almost out of Norman Rockwell except the parent couple happens to be two women.

The idea that these people have chosen a life of sin and should be denied rights in civil society on the basis of what some people think “God says” is utter bullshirt to me. These bigots can believe whatever they want but they don’t get to impose that onto civil society - and yes, it says far more about them than it does about gay people. They’re the ones actually out there bringing their ill will onto the lives of others. From the perspective of my “faith”, that’s far worse than living as a gay person. The idea that God somehow supports this kind of bigotry and discrimination is foul to me.
Click to expand...
I grew up in a Republican household also. By and large, it was fiscally conservative and socially liberal, however, both of my parents were fearful of homosexuality. Therefore they were somewhat bigoted. Not actively, but personally. They were born in 1913 though. This society has come a long way since then. There is no excuse, IMO, to believe, and feel, as my parents did anymore. Plus we have what science is telling us now. If you think about homosexuality the way people like Farb do, or my parents did, it's due to a lack of effort on your part.
 
nolaspe said:
Have some more science... p.s., I have 2 advanced degrees, one in medicine, and one in public health, so I may know what I'm talking about...

Study Says Brains of Gay Men and Women Are Similar

Brain scans provide evidence that sexual orientation is biological
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
Click to expand...
Very interesting. Early, but interesting nonetheless.

Scientists tried to find the "gay gene" for years, without success. Since they found this correlation within brain activity that develops early in infancy with minimal/no environmental influences, would this mean that there may yet be a genetical disposition and we just don't yet have the tech to find it?

And most importantly would this be a considered a natural condition, a birth defect, or the works of SATAN!!! ? :hihi:
 
cuddlemonkey said:
Bonobos and dolphins are just the tip, too.
Click to expand...
I know, check out the rat experiment by Calhoun if you want to see what crazy outside and social stress creates homosexual behavior. How does the population of the dolphins and bonobos continue along then? The straight ones continue to reproduce to carry on the species?
 
coldseat said:
I know what you believe. I just think it's illogical and ridiculous on it's face.
Click to expand...
obviously. Just as I believe men can have babies and black men are hunted by police are illogical and ridiculous on it's face.
 
SystemShock said:
It has nothing to do with "the left".

A parent that takes their child to church and tells the child "you must believe in this or your soul will burn in hell for eternity"? A child who is not given any option other than to belong to a church and believe? Yes.

And I am not against all religion. Buddhists, Jains, even Sihks are cool with me. It's mostly the Abrahamic religions, with Christianity and Islam occupying a special place in my heart.
Click to expand...
Do you also oppose parents making/forcing their children to go to school under the pretense that if you do study and educate yourself, your life will not be very fulfilling?
 
nolaspe said:
Have some more science... p.s., I have 2 advanced degrees, one in medicine, and one in public health, so I may know what I'm talking about...

Study Says Brains of Gay Men and Women Are Similar

Brain scans provide evidence that sexual orientation is biological
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
Click to expand...
Do you think I would be impressed with our 'advanced degrees'? Honestly, I think you have read my opinion on higher education in this country and the fact that you hold those up to prove you 'know' what you are talking about it comical.

What is your opinion on trans-women? Are they women? Use our advanced degree in medicine for that one and let me know.

What about the lock downs for the pandemic, what does your public health degree tell you about those being successful or warranted?

You can use both to help me figure this one out. Do you think it is a prudent course of action to vaccinate 6 month to 5 year olds for covid?
 
superchuck500 said:
For the truly anti-gay bigots like Farb, they must hold the line on it being a choice. It is the key to the entire doctrine.

And of course it’s not true. If they were ever willing to be honestly open with a gay person in their lives and talk about their experience, this would be patently obvious - even notwithstanding the various scientific study and observation of it in other species. Of course the unfortunate reality for most of these bigots is that they don’t have gay people in their lives or if they do, such a conversation could never honestly happen.

I grew up in a Republican household - that was very active in our church, we went every Sunday. I did the whole gamut from Sunday school to youth group to ushering and playing on the church’s sports teams. My parents were of the sort of “chamber of commerce” conservatives - not socially conservative activists. My mother owned a floral business with a lesbian couple. Our church’s choir leader was obviously gay (though not openly “out” but would admit it to trusted friends) and my parents liked him a lot, he came to dinner to our house on many occasions. Despite the Republican/Christian environment there simply was no indoctrination for me that gay people were deviant or wrong. I chalk it up to the Episcopal viewpoint to be honest but no matter its source, I saw my parents seeing these people as individuals about whose personal sexual orientation was irrelevant. But at the same token, my parents weren’t telling me that I “must accept gay people!” as some kind of other form of activism. It was simply that these people were treated no differently in our lives - they were simply family friends and we never really talked about their being gay apart from just acknowledging it.

Then, one of my good friends in high school - a strong, confident girl I had the utmost respect for - came out in college (and we all were happy and relieved for her because it made total sense). I knew gay people in law school. My social circle in my 20s had a gay guy and a lesbian whom I hung out with regularly. When I moved to DC I had a gay supervisor (an ex-Army JAG who was just an outstanding lawyer and a gifted leader) and one of my best work friends was a lesbian from Minnesota who was 15 years old than me but we still keep in touch because she’s awesome and hilarious.

These are good, hard working people living their lives just like the rest of us. And I have come to complete belief that their homosexuality was a natural course of development just the same as my heterosexuality was. My friend from high school married her girlfriend and they have three boys (two by IVF and one adopted) and a house in a town in Mississippi of all places. She coaches their baseball team and they go to country music concerts. They have a big Christmas party every year. They have the most loving, American family it’s almost out of Norman Rockwell except the parent couple happens to be two women.

The idea that these people have chosen a life of sin and should be denied rights in civil society on the basis of what some people think “God says” is utter bullshirt to me. These bigots can believe whatever they want but they don’t get to impose that onto civil society - and yes, it says far more about them than it does about gay people. They’re the ones actually out there bringing their ill will onto the lives of others. From the perspective of my “faith”, that’s far worse than living as a gay person. The idea that God somehow supports this kind of bigotry and discrimination is foul to me.
Click to expand...
Yep. All that is good stuff. I have several gay friends/couple friends. We talk about it often and honestly. Matter of fact, I will have several gays in my house tonight as we drink and grill. Great people indeed. Not every single gay person is great, there are many horrible people that are gay. Agree?
Did grow up in a church family so not sure I can relate to your experiences but close enough. Question though,

What civil rights are being denied gay people in this country?
 

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