Biden Tracker (3 Viewers)

DaveXA said:

Not to speak for B4you but I'm looking for examples as well. More towards, how do you get from point A to point B in regards to organizations to divest power. I'm not sure that's even possible. No organization is going to surrender its power completely and start over. That would be impractical.

How do you translate what you're suggesting needs to happen into something realistic and achievable? It just strikes me as more of a fantasy than something that could happen in a reasonable period of time.

And this is coming from someone who thinks justice, equality and fairness should be a foundational part of our thinking.

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I can't remember his name right now, yes I can - Dan Price, I think - who is a billionaire company owner in Seattle who after getting rich thought it was disgusting how little his company was paying people and made the minimum wage there $70,000. Whenever I read his posts on Twitter, I wonder how much better off we would be as a country if there were hundreds of billionaire company owners out there who thought and did the same thing.

ETA: just went to check his page and this was the last thing he posted:

What does 'white passing' Asian or Latino mean?

GMRfellowtraveller said:

during Seinfeld's run
(i'm not sure if i'm joking or not)


philosophically i think you are exactly correct - you should cast as wide a net as possible
in practice it seems that the more diversity breadth you get, the less depth (structural change)
if there's not a critical mass, that diversity will just get assimilated

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Well, it seems to me that no matter who's running things, people, regardless of background, will get assimilated to some degree with whatever the prevailing culture is at that organization.

To be sure, assimilated doesn't necessarily have to mean giving up your own cultural beliefs/practices. Structural change is hard. It can be done. But obviously, the path of least resistance seems to be starting your own company and build those values you hold to from the ground up. But that's just as hard too because competition will definitely be put there.

Clearly there are no easy or obvious paths to changing structure. I don't know if the best way is through existing structures or building new ones. But tearing down an existing one doesn't seem likely, much less a good idea.

Farb said:

What does 'white passing' Asian or Latino mean?

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Probably means that individual looks more white than their race. But I suspect you knew that already.

Farb said:

What does 'white passing' Asian or Latino mean?

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I know what it means, because it could be used to describe me, but I'd rather not answer for someone else.

wardorican said:

I know what it means, because it could be used to describe me, but I'd rather not answer for someone else.

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There is no question as to what it means. Put those two words together and that is what it means.

wardorican said:

I know what it means, because it could be used to describe me, but I'd rather not answer for someone else.

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This is definitely the case for my kids. Half white, half Asian. Oddly enough, their choice of friends are a completely mixed bag, lol.

I honestly have never heard that before. Does it mean mix-raced or 'white' acting?

Is it physical appearance or a personality type thing?

Farb said:

I honestly have never heard that before. Does it mean mix-raced or 'white' acting?

Is it physical appearance or a personality type thing?

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Physical appearance. It means people of a non-white ethnicity that look white enough that they can "pass" for white.

For example, Anya Taylor-Joy, who played in "The Queen's Gambit" is a latina who obviously passes for white. She IS white and considers herself to be white, but she's part Argentinian.



It also is not relegated to just "white" passing.

DaveXA said:

I guess what I'm trying to see is what all this looks like in practice. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with what you're posting as much as I'm looking for how we move forward in a practical, meaningful way that allows diversity to flourish.

As for white people and zero sum thinking, there's some of that, but certainly not all are like that. And we both know that ceding power is hard. Few people give up power willingly, and at some point, white people will probably become a minority group based on changing demographics. That will change things as well.

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snarkily i will say that south africa was 10% white for decades and held onto power fairly effectively for most of that (and still have WAY outsized power) so i won't count on demographic changes fixing power imbalances

sure, 'not all white people/not all men' - but just like with structural racism, it's not the individuals shouting the nword, it's that the white, male power structure was baked in
bureaucratic/corporatist power structures are baked in

Farb said:

I honestly have never heard that before. Does it mean mix-raced or 'white' acting?

Is it physical appearance or a personality type thing?

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passé blanc was a very important distinction when the ‘one drop’ rule was in effect

insidejob said:

There is no question as to what it means. Put those two words together and that is what it means.

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Conversations just go better when either people matter of fact-ly answer a question, even if you may find the intent questionable, or let the person asked answer when they eventually come back to check on the site.

GMRfellowtraveller said:

during Seinfeld's run
(i'm not sure if i'm joking or not)


philosophically i think you are exactly correct - you should cast as wide a net as possible
in practice it seems that the more diversity breadth you get, the less depth (structural change)
if there's not a critical mass, that diversity will just get assimilated

Click to expand...

Well, not sure how we got on this topic on this thread, but...

It depends on what you're going for and what you're signaling. If you're working on actively listening, then casting a wide net is the best way. You can then focus it on common issues, or the most common issues. Then, you can 'specialize' the group.

I think overly focusing on any particular minority group early, also sends a negative message.

i..e if this council had 3 black females, 1 black male, 2 black Latinas, and Iger as our Jewish / White person. And I'll add, all straight and cis gendered. What will the focus be? What will be ignored?

It may improve some things for some folks, but may totally ignore other issues.

It's always better to get as much data as reasonably possible. It's always better to first cast a wide net, and then edit it down. At least, that's my opinion.

I have a much more complicated concept of all of this, but I'm not sure I want to get into that yet.. and not in the "Biden Tracker".

GMRfellowtraveller said:

passé blanc was a very important distinction when the ‘one drop’ rule was in effect

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So it is physical appearance

wardorican said:

Well, not sure how we got on this topic on this thread, but...

It depends on what you're going for and what you're signaling. If you're working on actively listening, then casting a wide net is the best way. You can then focus it on common issues, or the most common issues. Then, you can 'specialize' the group.

I think overly focusing on any particular minority group early, also sends a negative message.

i..e if this council had 3 black females, 1 black male, 2 black Latinas, and Iger as our Jewish / White person. And I'll add, all straight and cis gendered. What will the focus be? What will be ignored?

It may improve some things for some folks, but may totally ignore other issues.

It's always better to get as much data as reasonably possible. It's always better to first cast a wide net, and then edit it down. At least, that's my opinion.

I have a much more complicated concept of all of this, but I'm not sure I want to get into that yet.. and not in the "Biden Tracker".

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I would be interested in a thread on this as well

Farb said:

I would be interested in a thread on this as well

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Honestly, when I get the time, your topic on the stats on shooting victims vs perception, and the Dr. Suess and other "cancel culture" ideas sort of is all the same to me.

It's all perception vs reality, and how that can get distorted, if you jump back a level.

Eventually I'll write it up, just been too busy at home.

wardorican said:

Conversations just go better when either people matter of fact-ly answer a question, even if you may find the intent questionable, or let the person asked answer when they eventually come back to check on the site.

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Well, of course. But when you're dealing with an obviously loaded question from someone whose style you've come to be familiar with, there's no need for all that. I mean, I can't fathom that there's anyone over the age of 18 who doesn't know about Black people back in the day - hell, some even still today - considering very light skinned, straight enough hair, etc. people who can or have passed for being white and considering it good fortune being common among Black people because they wouldn't get harassed or beaten (worst case, killed) just because of their skin color. It's now an actual "thing" with Asian people because of the rapid rise of hate crimes against people who look Asian because of the "China Flu" ravaging the planet.

Farb said:

I honestly have never heard that before. Does it mean mix-raced or 'white' acting?

Is it physical appearance or a personality type thing?

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Sorry, man. I just flat out don't believe you. You aren't a stupid person and seem to be at least somewhat informed on both history and current events. There is no way that you'd never heard of Black people hoping to pass for white or lighter skinned Black people being considered "better" or luckier than other darker skinned black people. Especially if you live in Mobile, AL.

If you really, I mean REALLY, couldn't figure that out just by what happens in day to day life right now and didn't know the history of light skinned Black people passing for white being considered blessed (or whatever) then I have been giving you too much credit on the whole logic, sense and judgment front.

Farb said:

So it is physical appearance

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I must be on your ignore list.