Trump loyalists in Congress to challenge Electoral College results in Jan. 6 joint session (Update: Insurrectionists storm Congress)(And now what?) (2 Viewers)

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    superchuck500

    superchuck500

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    I guess it's time to start a thread for this. We know that at least 140 members of Congress have pledged to join the objection. Under federal law, if at least one member of each house (HOR and Senate) objects, each house will adjourn the joint session for their own session (limited at two hours) to take up the objection. If both houses pass a resolution objecting to the EC result, further action can take place. If both houses do not (i.e. if one or neither passes a resolution), the objection is powerless and the college result is certified.

    Clearly this is political theater as we know such a resolution will not pass the House, and there's good reason to think it wouldn't pass the Senate either (with or without the two senators from Georgia). The January 6 joint session is traditionally a ceremonial one. This one will not be.

    Many traditional pillars of Republican support have condemned the plan as futile and damaging. Certainly the Trump loyalists don't care - and many are likely doing it for fundraising purposes or to carry weight with the fraction of their constituencies that think this is a good idea.


     
    "There are several posters here who consider themselves conservative. They vocally opposed Trump. They don't post all the radical and fanatical crap that's on Parlor and other social media outlets, in fact they denounce it."

    And I promise you the VAST majority voted for him again. Those people are just as responsible and complicit as the crazies. Recognizing something is objectively wrong and STILL choosing it doesn't make one anything other than a supporter.
     
    Xeno said:
    You're the wrong person to ask obviously, but what are Trump's policies? And how can someone be pro-life when they've paid women they've had affairs with to have abortions and stay quiet about it? These are things we've known about Donald Trump since before he ran for office but people not only ignored them, they actively claimed the opposite was true.

    I'm sorry, but your friends were either conned or they're lying or both. We've known who Donald Trump is for a long, long, LONG time. The evidence has been there all along and growing every day. 74 million people either ignored it or didn't care about it. At least another 70 million who didn't even vote also said they were okay with this. Two-thirds of this country either want a racist, fascist conman as president or don't care if he is.
    Click to expand...
    I’ll respond to you and zztop who quoted me - I don’t disagree with you, however you are never going to change a Trumpist’s mind by calling them a racist etc. All they will do is become further entrenched in what they believe. I was never a Trumpist - even in 2016, I was voting 3rd party and changed my mind while I was standing in line on Election Day. However, my relative would have never changed my mind had he not approached me in a respectful manner. Regarding zztop’s post - I agree with him in that a lot of people, myself included will accept a certain mindset. Prior to this year and in spite of the fact I am female, I’ve never taken Trumps words very seriously. I always look to people’s actions and not what they say. I’ve also heard women say just as bad or worse things about other women, and people shrug it off like it’s nothing. Part of my mind shift was what happened this week - words do matter. His words incited violence and I am sorry it took me so long to see it. I’m also expecting my first child (a boy) and when I found out I was pregnant, I started thinking about the type of men I want my son to emulate and it sure as hell isn’t Trump. If I ever heard my son speaking like him, I’d ground him forever and I would re examine how I raised him. Again words do matter.

    I know it sounds like I’m saying “oh we need to be nice to racists” - I’m not. For the people with white supremacy stuff and those who post on all the extremist websites etc - I have no desire to engage in a conversation nor treat them with any respect. All I’m saying is you can’t lump all Trump voters into that same bucket and if you do and treat them as such, you will never convince any of them of how wrong they are.
     
    jdn9201 said:
    However, my relative would have never changed my mind had he not approached me in a respectful manner.
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    I get this. I truly do.

    But I want you to understand just how unbelievably frustrating it is for Trumpists to be able to act as arrogant, loudmouthed, and cork sure as they have, but it’s our responsibility to be respectful when trying to convince them of how they were wrong.

    It’s more proof that Democrats are held to a higher standard and are forced to always be the adults in the room.

    Sometimes we just want to say “fork you you were wrong, you brought the country to the brink of disaster, shut the fork up and apologize for it, and then we’ll talk about moving the fork on.”
     
    zztop said:
    I'm not the one you asked but theres a certain mindset people will take. For example when the stormy Daniels stuff came out, the head of evangelicals was interviewed about this and how they could support a guy who was involved in something like that, and he said https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...angelicals-donald-trump-stormy-daniels-216498 “We kind of gave him—‘All right, you get a mulligan. You get a do-over here,’

    There was some congressman, I forget who b/c it was back in like 2017, who when asked about some of the outrageous things trump said, he said he either "didn't hear them" or "I choose to ignore what he says" (I don't remember the exact words, but essentially putting his head in the sand).
    Click to expand...
    Yeah, ignoring and underestimating in the name of the economy and being tough on China... Would be where I'd say my dad was on Trump before this got him to see the light.
     
    brandon said:
    I get this. I truly do.

    But I want you to understand just how unbelievably frustrating it is for Trumpists to be able to act as arrogant, loudmouthed, and cork sure as they have, but it’s our responsibility to be respectful when trying to convince them of how they were wrong.

    It’s more proof that Democrats are held to a higher standard and are forced to always be the adults in the room.

    Sometimes we just want to say “fork you you were wrong, you brought the country to the brink of disaster, shut the fork up and apologize for it, and then we’ll talk about moving the fork on.”
    Click to expand...
    Oh trust me - I do understand the frustration. A good number of my friends are STILL posting that the election was rigged, ANTIFA infiltrated the protests and turned it into a riot, etc and I want to tell all of them to Please stop! and ask how they possibly can’t see what is right in front of their face? And these are smart people - many have multiple college degrees, good careers etc. It’s mind boggling at this point. I don’t know if this will make you feel better but they along with the Republican Party will get what’s coming to them the longer they continue to embrace Trumpism. I consider the party to be dead right now - their political capital is gone and they will never win another national election because many of their former supports (myself included) will be scared to vote for them because they don’t want to be lumped in with Trumpists. Right now, I don’t even feel like I have a party home anymore. Especially if moderate Republicans like Murkowski, Collins, etc leave the party, Democrats will have free reign during Biden’s term and they will be able to get whatever they want passed, especially after the midterms in 2022 (where as it stands today the Republicans will get slaughtered)
     
    MrScary said:
    "There are several posters here who consider themselves conservative. They vocally opposed Trump. They don't post all the radical and fanatical crap that's on Parlor and other social media outlets, in fact they denounce it."

    And I promise you the VAST majority voted for him again. Those people are just as responsible and complicit as the crazies. Recognizing something is objectively wrong and STILL choosing it doesn't make one anything other than a supporter.
    Click to expand...
    I would offer that the non-crazies who voted for Trump bear MUCH more responsibility
    Those who knew it was ‘wrong’ or who have the capacity to weigh factual evidence but choose not to - they are the predominant reason for all of this
    It’s not the crazies, it’s the opportunistic enablers - every single time
     
    jdn9201 said:
    Oh trust me - I do understand the frustration. A good number of my friends are STILL posting that the election was rigged, ANTIFA infiltrated the protests and turned it into a riot, etc and I want to tell all of them to Please stop! and ask how they possibly can’t see what is right in front of their face? And these are smart people - many have multiple college degrees, good careers etc. It’s mind boggling at this point. I don’t know if this will make you feel better but they along with the Republican Party will get what’s coming to them the longer they continue to embrace Trumpism. I consider the party to be dead right now - their political capital is gone and they will never win another national election because many of their former supports (myself included) will be scared to vote for them because they don’t want to be lumped in with Trumpists. Right now, I don’t even feel like I have a party home anymore. Especially if moderate Republicans like Murkowski, Collins, etc leave the party, Democrats will have free reign during Biden’s term and they will be able to get whatever they want passed, especially after the midterms in 2022 (where as it stands today the Republicans will get slaughtered)
    Click to expand...

    Have you started to reach out to them in the same way that your relative did? I am curious to see how it goes if you do.
     
    LA - L.A. said:
    Some Mexicans are murderers and rapists. Were you cool with Trump stereotyping all Mexicans as drug thugs, murderers and rapists? Did you think that was accurate, reasonable, justified and helpful?

    If you were not, then it's hypocritical to be doing the same thing to all conservatives. It's also factually inaccurate. Don't facts matter?
    Click to expand...
    Well, matter of fact, some Mexicans are murderers and rapists, but you can't find 74+ million Mexicans who are murderers and rapists themselves or enable rape and murder. On the other hand, I can find 74+ million conservatives who voted to create and/or enable this debacle, whether they are nice or crazy, the majority of them voting not once, but twice, for Trump. And not only Trump, but racists and crazy QAnon peddlers and overall despicable human beings like King, Cruz, Hawley, Taylor Greene, etc. into Congress. They heed Fox News, they heed OANN, they read parler, they read the tweets, and be doing so for years. They all share blame in this.

    Parler, OANN, Infowars, et al, they all exist because of nice stable conservatives continue to support them, actively or passively. And as those outlets continue to be removed or heavily censored, as the presidency and Congress become dominated by Democrats, yes, those nice and stable conservatives are getting what they deserve.
     
    I live in Trump land. Yesterday about when that one goof ball was sitting at the desk taking a selfie I went out for a beer, might as well have a good beer while I watch our democracy destroyed. It is my usual bar and know most everyone. There was a couple of new guys at the bar talking and laughing about the "protest" Since ESPN was on every TV I thought maybe they had not heard they took over the Congress. That really excited them, telling me that is they only way they will ever be heard.

    Wow, I forgot to hit submit. What a goof.

    I later found out there was a proud boys protest in Indy that day, I wonder...
     
    GMRfellowtraveller said:
    I would offer that the non-crazies who voted for Trump bear MUCH more responsibility
    Those who knew it was ‘wrong’ or who have the capacity to weigh factual evidence but choose not to - they are the predominant reason for all of this
    It’s not the crazies, it’s the opportunistic enablers - every single time
    Click to expand...



    Having lived in TX and LA, i know a lot of people who justify their vote for Trump ’becuase of his Oil & Gas policies’... It’s like, oh, ok- so since you voted for purely selfish, beneficial reasons, you’re excused? Of course if you ever point out such to these people , they literally CANNOT CONCEIVE why anyone would vote based on anything but their own self-interests... They always assume that everyone else is as self-centered as they are... It’s like Fauci said early on in the pandemic re the virus and mask-wearing: “I dont know how to explain to someone that YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.”
     
    GMRfellowtraveller said:
    I’m entirely ready for that discussion- though I think it’s very similar to those who self-brand as ‘Christian’ - it’s a label without actual meaning at this point since the overwhelming majority of ‘Christians’ do not practice Christian values
    Same with ‘conservative’
    Click to expand...

    Christian values are up for debate too.
     
    GMRfellowtraveller said:
    I would offer that the non-crazies who voted for Trump bear MUCH more responsibility
    Those who knew it was ‘wrong’ or who have the capacity to weigh factual evidence but choose not to - they are the predominant reason for all of this
    It’s not the crazies, it’s the opportunistic enablers - every single time
    Click to expand...
    The crazies at least genuinely and sincerely believed the election was stolen. Given that, how should anyone expect them to act? If I was convinced the election was stolen from my side, I might take to the streets and want to storm some government buildings too.

    So you're right. Most of the blame should go to the people who should know better but have fed and coddled this monster they've created for years. And they have the nerve to be shocked that this could happen, but will lack the balls to really do anything about it at this point.
     
    jdn9201 said:
    Oh trust me - I do understand the frustration. A good number of my friends are STILL posting that the election was rigged, ANTIFA infiltrated the protests and turned it into a riot, etc and I want to tell all of them to Please stop! and ask how they possibly can’t see what is right in front of their face? And these are smart people - many have multiple college degrees, good careers etc.
    Click to expand...

    I can relate to this, you just described most of my family. I have two aunts and uncles that are MAGA followers. My uncle wore the red hat, had trump flags, bumper stickers, only watched faux news etc. My other uncle basically discovered youtube a few years ago and fell down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole. My parents are die hard straight ticket (R). I tried before he was even elected to figure out WHY they would support someone like trump. He was on the campaign trail mocking a gold star soldier (both my uncles are veterans), my dad claimed he supported him because he was "a great business man!" (ignored me when I said he declared bankruptcy 5 times). All of them are very religious and I guess in their minds moral and uphold "christian values", yet 17+ women accused him of sexual assault and one of rape. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

    My only guess is they were willing to overlook ALL of these things because they felt that a democrat was somehow worse than this person. And to me I have to congratulate the republicans for successfully vilifying a political party to such a degree that they convinced millions of people to vote for trump to become president. And shockingly even more voted for him this time around (despite 4 years of ruin he caused to this country). I think you have to go back decades though, with the southern strategy (at least in the south), where all this began. Maybe some smarter people can point to something earlier than that which started all this. Social media pushing all kinds of garbage, feeding on people's fears and prejudice just made things so much worse.

    A few years ago I made the decision not to talk politics with them anymore. There was no point. Facts didn't matter, their political views became almost akin to a religious level of faith/belief for them. It didn't matter what was true or not, as long as they BELIEVED something, that was all that mattered in their mind.
     
    jdn9201 said:
    I agree with you - even though it’s harder for me to do so now, we have to be really careful that we don’t write off every Trump voter as a racist. I’ve shared my background a couple of times here, but I live in Ga and am in my late 30s, female, and have been a lifelong Republican. I voted for Trump in 2016 merely because he wasn’t Hillary. Even then, I never understood how or why the right embraced him especially Christians. He’s been a NY Democrat his entire life. But anyhow, I held my nose and voted for him.

    Around 2018/2019, my opinion started to change. A relative on my husbands side who lives in upstate NY - he and his wife are lifelong Democrats. He started engaging in discussion with me why I voted for Trump, but he did so in a very respectful way. He also started sending me NYT articles. Admittedly I’ve always not liked the NYT and called it a liberal rag but I decided to read them. The first one I read was about all of his fishy tax moves. As a CPA, I think most of what he did was legal however reading it made me feel dirty. The 2nd big article that came out about his tax returns showing he owed more than $400m in debt started to make me feel like an idiot for voting for him. He didn’t care if people thought he was a tax cheat. He cared that this persona of him being some business genius would be blown apart.
    Anyhow, through discussion with this relative, I flipped sides and voted for Biden. I don’t agree with the Democrat platform on a lot and probably never will but Biden isn’t Bernie nor is he Elizabeth Warren. I consider him a moderate. I also voted for both of the democrat senators in our runoff. This election was the first time ever I voted Democrat on anything.

    My point being is that there are many Trump voters that are racists etc but there are also many that are not. Many of my friends who voted for Trump again will admit they don’t like him as a person but they like his policies and they also like he’s pro life. I think if the left had approached Trump voters just as my relative did, there could have been some healing after 2016 and a good amount of his supporters could have flipped sides like I did.
    Click to expand...
    We need more political dialogue like you had instead of the hardline, don’t give ground approach that is dominant, now. I commend your open-mindedness and thanks for sharing.
     
    SystemShock said:
    Well, matter of fact, some Mexicans are murderers and rapists, but you can't find 74+ million Mexicans who are murderers and rapists themselves or enable rape and murder. On the other hand, I can find 74+ million conservatives who voted to create and/or enable this debacle, whether they are nice or crazy, the majority of them voting not once, but twice, for Trump. And not only Trump, but racists and crazy QAnon peddlers and overall despicable human beings like King, Cruz, Hawley, Taylor Greene, etc. into Congress. They heed Fox News, they heed OANN, they read parler, they read the tweets, and be doing so for years. They all share blame in this.

    Parler, OANN, Infowars, et al, they all exist because of nice stable conservatives continue to support them, actively or passively. And as those outlets continue to be removed or heavily censored, as the presidency and Congress become dominated by Democrats, yes, those nice and stable conservatives are getting what they deserve.
    Click to expand...

    People like yourself who are informed about issues in depth may not be exposed to large numbers of people who aren't. I don't know. But I know I live in an area that is full of low information voters who only pay a minimal amount of attention to issues, so their reactions are based on superficial understanding of them. I know many single issue voters, yet few of them could expound at length on their positions. Many have never heard of Parler, OANN or Infowars, they don't know who Alex Jones is and couldn't tell you who Hawley, King or Taylor Greene are. Any knowledge of QAnon would be at elementary levels. So I am saying that these people may be confirmed Trump supporters without really knowing much about why they are for him other than surface level things. Most don't like Pelosi, AOC, Shumer, etc. but they couldn't tell you why, except, "Democrats, Socialists, baby killers."

    I wish those close to me who voted for Trump got their news from somewhere other than Facebook, but that's not reality. They get their "news" from an algorithm that reinforces whatever Facebook shows that they are interested in. So while I am reading and trying to become better informed through different media and weighing issues according to long held principles, people I know well are scrolling through their Facebook feed. It is little wonder that we come to different conclusions.
     
    This is Trump today since pretty much every social media company has blocked his account.
    BD356F7C-E525-4F2F-B70D-2DA80A3E1E23.gif
     
    Following up on my post from yesterday where I said they were rumors that Murkowski might go independent and caucus with the Dems.. don't count on it:

    Republican Sen. Lisa Murkowski (Alaska) responded “absolutely, unequivocally not” when asked if she was considering switching to the Democratic party.

    Liz Ruskin, an Alaska public radio reporter, asked Murkowski if she was planning on becoming a Democrat amid speculation of her identity with the Republican party.

    “No. No. Absolutely, unequivocally not,” Murkowski replied.
    Click to expand...
    thehill.com

    Murkowski says she is not considering joining Democratic caucus

    Republican Sen. Lisa Murkowski (Alaska) responded “absolutely, unequivocally not” when asked if she was considering switching to the Democratic party.
    thehill.com thehill.com
     
    superchuck500 said:
    More and more video is coming out of attack on the Capitol. And it's horrifying and disgusting.

    Yet today, we still have not heard from Capitol Police, the Secret Service, the Sergeant-at-Arms, or anyone about why this happened.
    Click to expand...

    Mike Pence, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Grassley.

    Numbers 1, 2, 3 in our chain of command and a civillian mob was able to overtake a building and occupy it with all 3 of those persons present. Let that sink in.

    A mob commissioned by the POTUS. We spend nearly a trillion dollars on the military and we fail to adequately protect three of the most important persons in our democracy...from civillians. It's bullshirt Chuck. But, all summer long, I saw protestors gassed, beat and shot. It's nearly unforgivable.
     

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