All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (1 Viewer)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[Dragon]

It wasn't me saying this would be 10 times worse than the worst flu ever. It was an "expert" epidemiologist.

And then he uses numbers that don't fit with his hyperbole.

My point is that this "expert" quite obviously was blowing up the numbers purposely for his own gain, hoping people would not apply any reason to his comments. There is a definite market out there for "experts" willing to say frightening things.

A friend in Ohio asked my opinion of all this after the Ohio governor banned all gatherings over 100 people.

There are essentially two choices here. The first is that this is Captain Trips, millions are already dead and the end times are here.

The second is that the media has spun this up for profit and forced politicians to choose one of two options.

The first option is to urge calm and common sense. Life goes on and we all should take precautions but continue about our business.

The second option is to play along, knowing that however bad this is, it will be seasonal and kill mostly those most vulnerable to respiratory distress.

The first option invites the media to constantly beat you over the head for not doing anything. The second option makes sure you come up looking like a champion when this burns out in late April.

Personally, I don't believe the real numbers when this is over with will come close to an average flu season. I could be wildly wrong but the odds are in my favor.

I seriously doubt that this is just a media thing.

Here the PM just announced that

* All non-urgent hospital treatments are postponed until after the crisis is over
* Non ICU personel are being re-trained to operate ICU equipment
* Regular wards are being upgraded with respirator equipment as fast as it is possible to get the necessary units installed
* The border is closed for anyone not a danish citizent or someone with urgent or essential business in Denmark (legal resident, serious family illness)
* All danish citizents abroad who are not permanent residents of the place they are staying, are adviced to get home as fast as possible.
* emergency economic aid to companies - suspension of tax payment while the crisis last
* emergency powers vote passed with 100% yes. Every member of parliment stood up and voted yes. Right and left together.
Those powers enable the government to among other things
- use force to quarantine people
- restrict acess to hospitals, clinics and nursinghomes to medical personel and staff
- Close down any publiv event if it involves more than 100 people
- restrict the purchase of over the counter medication to one package per person in stores
- enforce Strict laws on price gourging on essential foodstuff, medicin and protective equipmebnt
*

 

[JimEverett]

I'm not seeing it. Other than a couple mentions of influenza and how this is the first pandemic due to a coronavirus instead.

I took it as saying their knoweldge of influenza pandemics is being largely borrowed in how they are treating this pandemic. They are not going to look at the AIDS pandemic or a cholera pandemic, etc. They are using influenza - a respiratory disease that is relatively similar to a coronavirus where many of the same responses work.

 

[insidejob]

A quick look at the CDC website shows that the CDC itself compares this to the flu: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/summary.html

Yeah, they say:

This is the first pandemic known to be caused by the emergence of a new coronavirus. In the past century, there have been four pandemics caused by the emergence of novel influenza viruses. As a result, most research and guidance around pandemics is specific to influenza, but the same premises can be applied to the current COVID-19 pandemic.

Keep reading. Only doing so to figure out ways to treat it, not saying it's anything like the flu.

CDC is implementing its pandemic preparedness and response plans, working on multiple fronts, including providing specific guidance on measures to prepare communities to respond to local spread of the virus that causes COVID-19. There is an abundance of pandemic guidance developed in anticipation of an influenza pandemic that is being adapted for a potential COVID-19 pandemic.

They're saying it's the flu on steroids so comparing it to the regular old flu is stupid.

 

[insidejob]

I took it as saying their knoweldge of influenza pandemics is being largely borrowed in how they are treating this pandemic. They are not going to look at the AIDS pandemic or a cholera pandemic, etc. They are using influenza - a respiratory disease that is relatively similar to a coronavirus where many of the same responses work.

But they are not saying it's like the common flu.

 

[JimEverett]

But they are not saying it's like the common flu.

Sure they are. Why not base their response on the AIDS pandemic or a cholrea pandemic or a measles/polio/etc. pandemic. Influenza and coronavirus are similar. Does not mean they are the same - it means they are like one another. Certainly more like one another then they are like other things that I mentioned. In fact, they are so much "like" one another that the methods to stop an outbreak and spread of one is rather "like" how you stop an outbreak and spread of the other.

 

[insidejob]

Sure they are. Why not base their response on the AIDS pandemic or a cholrea pandemic or a measles/polio/etc. pandemic. Influenza and coronavirus are similar. Does not mean they are the same - it means they are like one another. Certainly more like one another then they are like other things that I mentioned. In fact, they are so much "like" one another that the methods to stop an outbreak and spread of one is rather "like" how you stop and outbreak or spread of the other.

OK.

 

[Taurus]

He saw the word flu and wanted to own a lib.

Considering this is Trump's CDC I can see them having a blurb about C19 being nothing but a nasty flu, then hurriedly changing it before his speech.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Alright are we clear?
It’s like the flu but it’s not like the flu

Next problem

 

[Taurus]

Sure they are. Why not base their response on the AIDS pandemic or a cholrea pandemic or a measles/polio/etc. pandemic. Influenza and coronavirus are similar. Does not mean they are the same - it means they are like one another. Certainly more like one another then they are like other things that I mentioned. In fact, they are so much "like" one another that the methods to stop an outbreak and spread of one is rather "like" how you stop an outbreak and spread of the other.

They're like one another in the same way as an arrow and a bullet.
Both projectiles that inflict kinetic damage with related mitigation strategies.

 

[bdb13]

They're stressing the fork out of "your leadership on this from early on."

Leadership is not what we had early on.

 

[JimEverett]

They're like one another in the same way as an arrow and a bullet.
Both projectiles that inflict kinetic damage with related mitigation strategies.

No, they are much more alike than that.

They both cause similar symptoms: cough, fever, fatigue. They can both be fatal, they both cause pneumonia, they both cause respiratory problems.
They are spread rather similarly: through droplets in the air produced by an infected person.
They are both viruses so treatment must address symptoms.
Both are prevented in basically the same fashion: frequent hand washing, staying away from infected people . . .

Sure, there are differences as well - obviously, they are different viruses. We re getting evidence that covid-19 might be spread in the air for a much longer period of time. I think (not sure) different areas of the respiratory system are "attacked" by the viruses, . . .

But to suggest that a claim that the two are similar or alike is ridiculous, is itself uninformed and downright stupid.

 

[SaintForLife]

Top US health official says the coronavirus is 10 times 'more lethal' than the seasonal flu

"I can say we will see more cases and things will get worse than they are right now," said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

www.cnbc.com

 

[JimEverett]

Top US health official says the coronavirus is 10 times 'more lethal' than the seasonal flu

"I can say we will see more cases and things will get worse than they are right now," said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

www.cnbc.com

And to be clear - there are strains of influenza that are more than 10 times lethal than the "seasonal flu".

 

[SystemShock]

Someone at the upper levels of the CDC yesterday said in an interview, "If I hear one more person compare this to the flu, I'm going to lose my forking mind."

And of course the scientist Jerry Falwell is out there saying it's just like the flu.

I guess they are going to lose their forking mind, because there is a comparison to be made.

The viruses spread in similar fashion.
The spread of the viruses can be prevented in similar fashion.
The viruses present similar symptoms.
Both viruses attack the respiratory system
The viruses create similar conditions (pneumonia).
The high risk groups (respiratory, heart issues) that are susceptible to one would be susceptible to the other as well.

 

[Farb]

We can't agree on what to call it and we can't even agree on what we can compare it too. Strange times.
On a side, I found it interesting that the Spanish flu, are we allowed to call it that?, killed an unusual amount of young adults.

 

[V Chip]

Not to derail, but what's with the PC "white nationalist"?

He's a xenophobic white nationalist, who has his hands deep in the policies of travel bans of Muslims, Chinese, and non-UK Europeans, and the border policies as well. It's not PC if you tell the blatant truth right? I thought that purseyfooting around with language to soften the impact to protect the feelings of people was PC, not calling a spade a spade.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

No, they are much more alike than that.

They both cause similar symptoms: cough, fever, fatigue. They can both be fatal, they both cause pneumonia, they both cause respiratory problems.
They are spread rather similarly: through droplets in the air produced by an infected person.
They are both viruses so treatment must address symptoms.
Both are prevented in basically the same fashion: frequent hand washing, staying away from infected people . . .

Sure, there are differences as well - obviously, they are different viruses. We re getting evidence that covid-19 might be spread in the air for a much longer period of time. I think (not sure) different areas of the respiratory system are "attacked" by the viruses, . . .

But to suggest that a claim that the two are similar or alike is ridiculous, is itself uninformed and downright stupid.

Arrows and Bullets: The Jim Everett Test

They both cause similar symptoms: puncture wounds, bleeding, piercing of internal organs. They can both be fatal, they both cause the skin to become pierced, they both cause bodily injury.
They are spread rather similarly: propelled by the force of a tool held by a person.
They are both projectile weapons so treatment must address symptoms.
Both are prevented in basically the same fashion: don't let someone shoot you with them.

Looks like bullets and arrows are just as similar as covid-19 and the flu.

 

[Archies Ghost]

I seriously doubt the multi-billion dollar industry of the NBA would pause their season and lose a ton of money over something that will be close to the average flu season.

Consider the possibility that the organizers of large public gatherings have lawyers and public relations staff advising them how to best avoid liability and maintain image.

I know small, local organizations that have made the decision to cancel planned events purely from a legal liability standpoint.