Republicans moving ahead with Trump’s ‘big’ bill of tax breaks (1 Viewer)

[zztop]

Republicans moving ahead with Trump's 'big' bill of tax breaks and spending cuts amid tariff uproar

After a long wait, the Senate is launching action on President Donald Trump’s ”“big, beautiful bill” of tax breaks and spending cuts.

apnews.com

More than a month after House Republicans surprised Washington by advancing their framework for Trump’s $4.5 trillion in tax breaks and $2 trillion in spending cuts, Senate Republicans voted Thursday to start working on their version. The largely party-line vote, 52-48, sets the stage for a potential Senate all-nighter Friday spilling into the weekend.

 

[MT15]

 

[superchuck500]

It's going to pass - the so-called moderates have joined the vote and only far right hold outs remain, including Rick Scott and Mike Lee. Of course they're going to fall in line for Trump.

Just an awful, cruel, stupid bill.

 

[SamAndreas]

This source is my neighbor, she's a well known wildlife advocate. She was the California director of the National Wildlife. Federation.

 

[SamAndreas]

I'm reading about tax break for whaling. My first thought was Oh Hell.

The report I read first was one with an agenda, rather than one which explained what the hell is going on about this. It failed to mention that the tax break only goes to native subsistence hunters. With out that part being included it gave the impression that something bad was about to happen.

I found a better article at Politico, and then an even more detailed article In this Alaskan news outfit which completely changed my outlook on this from OH HELL to well, this is OK, then upon reading the final best article, to feeling this is one of the least troubling aspects of that ugly bill from hell.

I looked up the status of the herd size and it's endangerment as a species. It turns out they quit whaling of these whales in the 1950's and didn't start easing that when the herd increased to the point that in the Bering sea area the population is advancing to pre commercial whaling levels. In 2004 they started to allow natives to hunt them for subsistence. They actually eat them, they don't hunt them for their oil.

Since 2004 they have allowed the native hunters to "strike" 64 of them each year which is about one half a percent of the growing population. I think the word strike meants attempt to kill and harvest. Sometimes a whale is wounded in a hunt. but gets away, may survive or die where it can't be recovered. I think that "strike" counts toward the harvest quota.

Now that I have found out that Eskimos are the only people allowed to hunt and caim that tax credit my horor over this evaporated.



You know how it is impossible to find a bill written by conservatives which help poor people, well this might be an exception to that.

Here's that best article I found about it. Note that this is a conservative news source. The reason I thought it the best article for this story was because it had all of the details in it that I needed to evaluate how I felt about this.

 

[Dragon]

It isn’t the tech bros that are telling us to keep an eye on China. That has been going on for decades by our intel organizations. I believe them. They didn’t come around to that position since Trump. The tech bros are interested in making money and a stable place to do it. China’s interest in money is only because it gets them closer to their goal of overtaking the US. In any event, the Tech bros have brought prosperity to the US. They need to be checked with regulations, but I don’t fear them like I fear China. The AI threat is real from China. They are also advancing fast in quantum computing that will break most crypto. They are advancing in space. They are also advancing in other arenas that will position them to overtake us. The tech bros are our best defense, even if they also present a danger themselves.

The real reason China is poised to overtake the U.S. in key areas is its sustained investment in science, education, and infrastructure—sectors where the U.S. has stagnated, particularly under many Republican-led administrations. China, in contrast, has national programs designed to identify and support gifted children from an early age, even in rural areas not traditionally seen as intellectual hubs.

That said, China’s education system is far from perfect. It is intensely competitive and narrowly focused, placing enormous pressure on students. The stakes are so high that burnout is common, and tragically, some young people take their own lives when they feel they can’t meet expectations.

Meanwhile, the U.S. continues to squander human potential due to its lack of equal educational opportunities. The Trump administration’s attack on DEI initiatives will only deepen this failure, making it even harder to identify and nurture talent from underrepresented backgrounds. At the same time, some Republican members of Congress continue to push the outdated notion that women attend college primarily to find a husband—undermining both gender equity and the nation’s long-term competitiveness.

 

[Lapaz]

The real reason China is poised to overtake the U.S. in key areas is its sustained investment in science, education, and infrastructure—sectors where the U.S. has stagnated, particularly under many Republican-led administrations. China, in contrast, has national programs designed to identify and support gifted children from an early age, even in rural areas not traditionally seen as intellectual hubs.

That said, China’s education system is far from perfect. It is intensely competitive and narrowly focused, placing enormous pressure on students. The stakes are so high that burnout is common, and tragically, some young people take their own lives when they feel they can’t meet expectations.

Meanwhile, the U.S. continues to squander human potential due to its lack of equal educational opportunities. The Trump administration’s attack on DEI initiatives will only deepen this failure, making it even harder to identify and nurture talent from underrepresented backgrounds. At the same time, some Republican members of Congress continue to push the outdated notion that women attend college primarily to find a husband—undermining both gender equity and the nation’s long-term competitiveness.

I agree with everything you said except that you suggest that is the REAL reason. Those are huge factors, which Trump is making far worse than any other Republican, but their theft of information is a bigger factor in their leap. Those things you mentioned are very important to their ability to maintain and expand their lead, but their theft turbocharged their growth.

 

[Bolo]

Unless something crazy happens in this debate process where they decide on the final language before voting, you essentially have 1.5 years to get off medicaid unless you live in some specific states or districts that end up suing over these cuts which will only be a temp stopgap.

People who have never been on it have no idea how LOW the threshold is to not be kicked off of it, kicking poor people is the lowest of the low. This wouldn't even be an issue if healthcare was even remotely affordable and insurance wasn't scamming people on the daily.

 

[Huntn]

Dropped on Mastodon:

 

[SystemShock]

I agree with everything you said except that you suggest that is the REAL reason. ... Those things you mentioned are very important to their ability to maintain and expand their lead, but their theft turbocharged their growth.

That China makes cheap knockoffs of Western products is not in question.
But making cheap knockoffs didn't make China leaders in EV's and EV batteries, or manufacturing methods/production lines, or be able to build a hospital in 7 days while physically moving the building from one place to another.

Go look at the suspension of the BYD Yangwang U models. Tell me which Western car manufacturer offers anything similar. While people in the U.S. think Hummer's crab driving is cool, BYD is making cars that can tank roll, park sideways by themselves, drive on 3 tires, even jump over bumps/potholes by themselves. Whose tech did they steal or reverse-engineer?

It wasn't really a surprise in many places, but now everyone knows that Western companies have been using Chinese manufacturing and passing their merchandise as being made in that brand's place of origin, including many products that boast "Made in the USA" labels (Trump tries to mask his products by including labels like "Designed in Oregon"). Their manufacturing is just not cheaper, it is more efficient that any other in the world. And its not because they are stealing or reverse engineering production lines in the West.

 

[MT15]

Unless something crazy happens in this debate process where they decide on the final language before voting, you essentially have 1.5 years to get off medicaid unless you live in some specific states or districts that end up suing over these cuts which will only be a temp stopgap.

People who have never been on it have no idea how LOW the threshold is to not be kicked off of it, kicking poor people is the lowest of the low. This wouldn't even be an issue if healthcare was even remotely affordable and insurance wasn't scamming people on the daily.

I would also add that people in general don’t realize how many middle class people rely on Medicaid to pay for their parents’ nursing home care, for one example. Or their special needs kids’ therapies.

Middle class people will also feel it when their local hospital or clinic closes.

The GOP is just a death cult. They want poor people to just die. And they want to get rid of all immigrants no matter who is hurt or dies in the process. It’s hard to imagine how really bad these politicians are.

 

[MT15]

That China makes cheap knockoffs of Western products is not in question.
But making cheap knockoffs didn't make China leaders in EV's and EV batteries, or manufacturing methods/production lines, or be able to build a hospital in 7 days while physically moving the building from one place to another.

Go look at the suspension of the BYD Yangwang U models. Tell me which Western car manufacturer offers anything similar. While people in the U.S. think Hummer's crab driving is cool, BYD is making cars that can tank roll, park sideways by themselves, drive on 3 tires, even jump over bumps/potholes by themselves. Whose tech did they steal or reverse-engineer?

It wasn't really a surprise in many places, but now everyone knows that Western companies have been using Chinese manufacturing and passing their merchandise as being made in that brand's place of origin, including many products that boast "Made in the USA" labels (Trump tries to mask his products by including labels like "Designed in Oregon"). Their manufacturing is just not cheaper, it is more efficient that any other in the world. And its not because they are stealing or reverse engineering production lines in the West.

So much this. The intellectual theft issue is a huge red herring.

 

[Lapaz]

I agree that China is now out-innovating us in some areas, but their huge advances came by theft. They are like mafiosos that stole their way into wealth and then started creating real businesses. I’m not familiar with China’s EV innovations, but I’ve heard they are making good and inexpensive EVs. Battery tech is another of China’s advances that got a head start with theft, but now they are innovating themselves. China has done more to weaken American than anything else, because of their theft, job losses, and support for our adversaries. They’re also causing us to spend more on our military. Tech bros have brought prosperity, even as their zealous greed creates danger for our system of government. So we face many dangers, but I think China is our biggest and most insidious threat.

 

[Dragon]

That China makes cheap knockoffs of Western products is not in question.
But making cheap knockoffs didn't make China leaders in EV's and EV batteries, or manufacturing methods/production lines, or be able to build a hospital in 7 days while physically moving the building from one place to another.

Go look at the suspension of the BYD Yangwang U models. Tell me which Western car manufacturer offers anything similar. While people in the U.S. think Hummer's crab driving is cool, BYD is making cars that can tank roll, park sideways by themselves, drive on 3 tires, even jump over bumps/potholes by themselves. Whose tech did they steal or reverse-engineer?

It wasn't really a surprise in many places, but now everyone knows that Western companies have been using Chinese manufacturing and passing their merchandise as being made in that brand's place of origin, including many products that boast "Made in the USA" labels (Trump tries to mask his products by including labels like "Designed in Oregon"). Their manufacturing is just not cheaper, it is more efficient that any other in the world. And its not because they are stealing or reverse engineering production lines in the West.

Too many in the U.S. have forgotten that staying at the forefront of innovation depends on one crucial foundation: education. And not just education for those who can afford it—but for everyone. Many of the world’s most successful inventors and entrepreneurs came from humble backgrounds. Growing up with limited money and fewer options taught them to think differently. That lack of resources often fueled their creativity and forced them to find smart, unconventional ways to achieve their goals.

By providing all children with access to quality education, it will unlock the kind of ingenuity that drives real progress.

 

[Dragon]

I agree that China is now out-innovating us in some areas, but their huge advances came by theft. They are like mafiosos that stole their way into wealth and then started creating real businesses. I’m not familiar with China’s EV innovations, but I’ve heard they are making good and inexpensive EVs. Battery tech is another of China’s advances that got a head start with theft, but now they are innovating themselves. China has done more to weaken American than anything else, because of their theft, job losses, and support for our adversaries. They’re also causing us to spend more on our military. Tech bros have brought prosperity, even as their zealous greed creates danger for our system of government. So we face many dangers, but I think China is our biggest and most insidious threat.

The greed of American corporations is a major factor behind widespread job losses in the U.S. Many of these companies chose to outsource labor and production not out of necessity, but for profit maximization—often at the expense of American workers and long-term national interests.

It's also important to remember that a significant portion of America's scientific advancement—especially in fields like rocketry, weapons systems, and material science—was driven by German scientists brought to the U.S. after World War II under Operation Paperclip. Some of these individuals had ties to the Nazi regime and, under different circumstances, would likely have faced prosecution at Nuremberg. Instead, they became instrumental in advancing U.S. capabilities, including laying the groundwork for the American space program.

Do I condone scientific theft? No, I do not. But it’s disingenuous to single out one nation. China is far from alone in this regard. Throughout history, nearly every major power has engaged in the appropriation of foreign knowledge—whether through espionage, colonization, or corporate maneuvering—and then used that knowledge as a foundation to innovate and develop new technologies.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I would also add that people in general don’t realize how many middle class people rely on Medicaid to pay for their parents’ nursing home care, for one example. Or their special needs kids’ therapies.

Middle class people will also feel it when their local hospital or clinic closes.

The GOP is just a death cult. They want poor people to just die. And they want to get rid of all immigrants no matter who is hurt or dies in the process. It’s hard to imagine how really bad these politicians are.

Remotely caring for my elderly father who still lives in Louisiana, I've had extensive first hand experience with the health care system in LA, including Medicaid. The healthcare and medicaid system in LA, and in almost all of the mostly rural Republican dominated states, is blatantly designed to coerce the rural landowners who are cash poor into having to sell their land at below market value to get the late life healthcare they need.

My dad owns some land that was originally gotten by our ancestors through Spanish Land Grants. That's right, folks. There was once a time when governments gave land to people so they could farm it to help provide food for everyone. Now the governments in the business of helping billionaires snake land away from people when they are at their most vulnerable and desperate.

The kicker is that the wealthy bastages, not all wealthy people are bastages, wrote loopholes into the laws to protect themselves. They set up trusts for themselves and their heirs at a very young age, so that they don't have to worry about the look back period in which the state looks to see if you transferred any property or other assets at below market value. In LA, that look back period is 5 years. My father has to make it to December of 2026 without needing medicaid for his land to be protected from the 5 year look back. He's not going to make it that long without needing medicaid, specifically for in patient long term care otherwise known as nursing homes. It remains to be seen if medicaid will survive that long.

So what dad has to look forward to shortly before dying is losing the only thing that he feels he got right as a parent which is to hold onto a modest amount of family rural farmland to pass on to his children. How political party treats the most vulenerable people tells you everything you need to know about the true values of that party. The Republican party steals, cheats, abducts, enslaves (private prisons), and either kills or lets the most vulnerable people die. They are the party of depraved self-serving and self-enriching. They are not the party of life and liberty for all. Their reckoning is coming. It's not a matter of it, but a matter of when. History makes that absolute very clear.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I agree that China is now out-innovating us in some areas, but their huge advances came by theft. They are like mafiosos that stole their way into wealth and then started creating real businesses.

Have I got bad news for you.

“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916.

I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”
― Smedley D. Butler, War Is a Racket

Smedley D. Butler Quotes (Author of War Is a Racket)

42 quotes from Smedley D. Butler: 'I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico...

www.goodreads.com

This is who Smedley Butler is:

Smedley Butler was one of the most decorated Major Generals in the U.S. history. He was much influenced by his father’s political career and displayed a burning desire to join the army since his childhood.

Who was Smedley Butler? Everything You Need to Know

A behind-the-scene look at the life of Smedley Butler.

www.thefamouspeople.com

You keep insisting that China is a bigger threat to our existence as a free society than the tech billionaires and other billionaires. You seem to be unaware of just how tyrannical most billionaires are. Banking and industrial billionaires, who have the same personalities as tech billionaires and the same obsessions and compulsions for total domainence, tried to overthrow the US government and make Smedley Butler our dictator. The only reason they failed, was because Butler told them to pound sand and informed Congress of the attempted coup.

The conspirators had several million dollars, a stockpile of weapons and had even reached out to a retired Marine general, Smedley Darlington Butler, to lead their forces.

"Had he been a different kind of person, it might have gone a lot further," Denton says. "But he saw it as treason and he reported it to Congress."

The Business Plot, or When J.P. Morgan’s Pals Tried To Overthrow FDR - New England Historical Society

It sounded crazy, but it wasn't: The Business Plot to make Smedley Butler, a highly decorated Marine, the U.S. dictator in 1934 after overthrowing FDR.

newenglandhistoricalsociety.com

The Plot Against American Democracy That Isn't Taught in Schools

The Depression-era authors of the "Business Plot" aimed to take power away from President Roosevelt and stop his "socialist" New Deal.

www.rollingstone.com

Gerald MacGuire and the Plot to Overthrow Franklin Roosevelt - Connecticut History | a CTHumanities Project

Gerald MacGuire, a prominent Connecticut businessman, became deeply involved in a reported plot to overthrow the presidency of Franklin Roosevelt.

connecticuthistory.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/01/13/fdr-roosevelt-coup-business-plot/

Many of the tech billionaires have been promoting tyranny/fascism/authoritarianism here and all across the planet. Even their products and apps are tyrannical. They maintain all control over their products and apps even after you buy it from them. They helped put Trump in place. They continue to help Trump do all the things you say are anti-democratic. Wake up to the reality of them. They will take our freedom away long before any foreign government or outside entity will.

 

[longtime lurker]

It's going to pass - the so-called moderates have joined the vote and only far right hold outs remain, including Rick Scott and Mike Lee. Of course they're going to fall in line for Trump.

Just an awful, cruel, stupid bill.

We will hear and watch those “concerned” Republicans who made the tough decision to support this monstrous bill over the next few days….hopefully enough of their constituents see through the BS and can them right out come the mid terms.

I would also add that people in general don’t realize how many middle class people rely on Medicaid to pay for their parents’ nursing home care, for one example. Or their special needs kids’ therapies.

Middle class people will also feel it when their local hospital or clinic closes.

The GOP is just a death cult. They want poor people to just die. And they want to get rid of all immigrants no matter who is hurt or dies in the process. It’s hard to imagine how really bad these politicians are.

My wife and I work full time and our family depends on Medicaid and its services to care for our two autistic special needs children. We would lose our home if we lose what medi-Cal gives our children each month. The myth from the right is that Medicaid will not hurt families like mine. It’s a lie. The right can choose to believe that these cuts will not deeply affect a wide swath of Americans if they want to keep their heads in the sand. These are devastating.

 

[SamAndreas]

I agree that China is now out-innovating us in some areas, but their huge advances came by theft. They are like mafiosos that stole their way into wealth and then started creating real businesses. I’m not familiar with China’s EV innovations, but I’ve heard they are making good and inexpensive EVs. Battery tech is another of China’s advances that got a head start with theft, but now they are innovating themselves. China has done more to weaken American than anything else, because of their theft, job losses, and support for our adversaries. They’re also causing us to spend more on our military. Tech bros have brought prosperity, even as their zealous greed creates danger for our system of government. So we face many dangers, but I think China is our biggest and most insidious threat.

Lapaz China is making use of a basic human cognitive ability humans have to be able to copy the activities they see other humans doing.

I copy what I see others doing, and then I am able to do what they do.

Wind blows, and sea waves crash onto shore lines, and Chinese people will continue to do as all the rest of us also do. Copying what other humans do is a human basic behaviour.

I am what I've seen others do, and you are what you've seen others do.

My point being what you've said above is a red herring. It was something else, it was not a Chinese theft.