Will “mass deportation” actually happen (8 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

It’s so repulsive to see people cheering for what is basically 80% the same thing as the Holocaust - different end result but otherwise very similar.

Economists have said it would tank the economy and cause inflation - notwithstanding the cost.

Is it going to actually happen or is this Build The Wall 2.0?

 

[Optimus Prime]

I don’t buy into the argument that proper ID is difficult to obtain. People in all walks of life get ID. It is required and necessary to obtain many services in this country.

What is true is your statement that “the truth doesn’t need my buy in”.

Everything else you said is BS.

And that is your privilege talking again

“It’s easy for me so it should be easy for everyone”

Beyond the financial expense there can also be a logistical burden

There may be only one place a person can go, it may take that person well over an hour to get there involving bus rides, bus transfers and taxis. The place that person can go only processes every other Tuesday from 9-12. The person may work an hourly job and can’t take the time off, if the time is taken may not have a job anymore. And that’s for able bodied people, you add elderly, disabled or ill that that’s even more obstacles

And every now and then there a push to make IDs free and much easier to obtain than they currently are, and there is always pushback

Why?

Because the difficulty and burden is a feature not a bug and the people most affected by it are the people they most want affected by it

We talk about this every presidential election cycle

 

[Optimus Prime]

There are things happening now that some earlier in this thread said would never happen

Masked men just taking people off the street and tossing them in unmarked vans??? Fear monger much?

People here legally getting detained???? Nope, try again

People with no criminal record getting deported??? How many times do we need to say it? Criminals only!!!!

This ID thing is a smokescreen deflection

‘If they had the proper ID this wouldn’t happen’

We’ve seen people with proper ID and documentation still get caught up in this and be detained for hours or days

 

[TampaJoe]

There have been a whole lot of verified instances of alleged ICE agents not identifying themselves. I'm glad to hear your not okay with the fact alleged ICE agents are not identifying themselves.


That's what I thought and appreciate being forthright about it.


I'm not asking you if you think it's happening or not. I'm asking if you would be okay with it if it did happen,. I'm also not asking you if you think it's legal or constitutional. I'm just asking you if you think it's an okay thing to do.

I was very clear about what I was asking. I'll ask again.

Would it be okay with you if ICE abducted someone, didn't notify anyone that the person was abducted, wouldn't let anyone know were the person was being detained, wouldn't confirm to anyone asking if they had that person in custody or wouldn't let that person contact anyone, including legal representation?

Based purely on what you describe and without any knowledge of the underlying facts and circumstances, I would think that such acts would be found unlawful.

If the person arrested already had a deportation order, I don’t know that any additional due process is warranted. But as I said, I haven’t heard the governments side of the case.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Based purely on what you describe and without any knowledge of the underlying facts and circumstances, I would think that such acts would be found unlawful.

I didn't ask you if you think it would be unlawful. I've already told you that twice. Disregard the legality or constitutionality of it. I'm asking you if you think it's an okay way to treat people. Let's try the question again with an emphasis on the key phrase.

Do you think it would be an okay way to treat people if ICE abducted someone, didn't notify anyone that the person was abducted, wouldn't let anyone know were the person was being detained, wouldn't confirm to anyone asking if they had that person in custody or wouldn't let that person contact anyone, including legal representation?

 

[TampaJoe]

And that is your privilege talking again

“It’s easy for me so it should be easy for everyone”

Beyond the financial expense there can also be a logistical burden

There may be only one place a person can go, it may take that person well over an hour to get there involving bus rides, bus transfers and taxis. The place that person can go only processes every other Tuesday from 9-12. The person may work an hourly job and can’t take the time off, if the time is taken may not have a job anymore. And that’s for able bodied people, you add elderly, disabled or ill that that’s even more obstacles

And every now and then there a push to make IDs free and much easier to obtain than they currently are, and there is always pushback

Why?

Because the difficulty and burden is a feature not a bug and the people most affected by it are the people they most want affected by it

We talk about this every presidential election cycle

Yes you do talk about it. And here is the deal. You have access to the same courts and the same judges as the other party. That is the place to make the case and offer evidence that what you claim is true. I’m not going to claim that it never happens. I’m sure it does. But I don’t believe it as widespread and pervasive as you claim. Further, we should not do away with sensible controls around elections or the delivery of government services, etc because some people have difficulty with obtaining proper ID. The solution is to help those folks obtain the needed ID.

So what would you have the government do?

 

[TampaJoe]

I didn't ask you if you think it would be unlawful. I've already told you that twice. Disregard the legality or constitutionality of it. I'm asking you if you think it's an okay way to treat people. Let's try the question again with an emphasis on the key phrase.

Do you think it would be an okay way to treat people if ICE abducted someone, didn't notify anyone that the person was abducted, wouldn't let anyone know were the person was being detained, wouldn't confirm to anyone asking if they had that person in custody or wouldn't let that person contact anyone, including legal representation?

I already answered your question. If the “guy” has a criminal record or already has an order for deportation, I wouldn’t have a problem if they put him on a plane and deported him right away. He has already had his due process.

If said individual was undocumented in this country and has no priors, then he has every right to due process.

As I have said numerous times, I expect law enforcement to follow the law. If you don’t like the law, then we have a process for changing the law. But ignoring the law isn’t an answer.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I already answered your question. If the “guy” has a criminal record or already has an order for deportation, I wouldn’t have a problem if they put him on a plane and deported him right away. He has already had his due process.

I didn't ask anything about being put on a plane and deported.

Your constant avoiding of the simple question and deflecting to things I didn't ask has convinced me that you're okay with treating people badly as long as it's "them" that are treated badly and you're avoiding openly admitting it, because you know in your heart that it's not right to be okay with treating people badly.

You've answered the question loud and clear by your constant efforts to avoid answering the questing and deflect to something else.

Cue the "liar," "ignorant," and "you folks" response.

 

[TampaJoe]

I didn't ask anything about being put on a plane and deported.

Your constant avoiding of the simple question and deflecting to things I didn't ask has convinced me that you're okay with treating people badly as long as it's "them" that are treated badly and you're avoiding openly admitting it, because you know in your heart that it's not right to be okay with treating people badly.

You've answered the question loud and clear by your constant efforts to avoid answering the questing and deflect to something else.

Cue the "liar," "ignorant," and "you folks" response.

You are asking questions that are not “yes” or “no” questions. You are asking questions that depend on facts and circumstances and the law.

We are a nation of laws. Those represent our “shared values”. So if you think those values need adjustment, you need to contact the folks who represent you and get that changed. If you think those laws are being violated, that is what the courts are for.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

There are things happening now that some earlier in this thread would never happen

Masked men just taking people off the street and tossing them in unmarked vans??? Fear monger much?

People here legally getting detained???? Nope, try again

People with no criminal record getting deported??? How many times do we need to say it? Criminals only!!!!

This ID thing is a smokescreen deflection

‘If they had the proper ID this wouldn’t happen’

We’ve seen people with proper ID and documentation still get caught up in this and be detained for hours or days

I'm highly confident that if federal agents had abducted the people, who attacked the Capitol on January 6th, 2021 to overthrow an election, in the same way that is happening now, then TampaJoe would have been screaming mad about how wrong that was.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

You are asking questions that are not “yes” or “no” questions. You are asking questions that depend on facts and circumstances and the law.

That's complete bullshirt. The question that have been asking is about if you personally think it's okay to treat people a certain way, regardless of it's happening, legal or constitutional. You keep doing everything you can to avoid giving an honest and simple answer about whether you personally think it's okay to treat people the way I've repeatedly asked.

We are a nation of laws. Those represent our “shared values”.

More bullshirt. We are a nation that has laws. There's is a lot of disagreement on the moral values of a lot of the laws. I think the death penalty is immoral, yet it's still legal. I think banning abortions is immoral, yet that's happening in many states. If someone asks me if I think the death penalty is okay, I say no without hemming or hawing. If someone asks me if I think banning abortions is okay, I say know without hemming or hawing.

You seem to be trying to hide behind what "the law" is to hide what your personal values are on this issue. That screams to me that you know your personal values are either not right or that they betray everything you are saying to give cover to what Trump is having ICE do right now. No one works as hard as you have to avoid a simple question on personal values unless they feel and think they have something to hide.

You are either fooling yourself or trying to foll everyone else. I can tell you this much, you are not fooling anyone else, TampaJoe.

 

[TampaJoe]

I'm highly confident that if federal agents had abducted the people, who attacked the Capitol on January 6th, 2021 to overthrow an election, in the same way that is happening now, then TampaJoe would have been screaming mad about how wrong that was.

Well what you know could fit in a thimble. As I said, I expect LEO to follow the law.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Well what you know could fit in a thimble.

Like I said, cue the "your ignorant" response. It decreases your credibility even more, so it's all good.

 

[TampaJoe]

Yeah well I may agree with you on the death penalty and I may also agree with you to a point on abortion. But like so many such questions, there are exceptions. Capital Punishment and Abortion aren’t “yes or no” questions for a whole lot of folks.

Life isn’t black and white. As much as you might like it to be, it simply isn’t. People don’t all draw their individual moral lines in the same place. The law is our attempt to draw those lines. I’m fine if you want to change them. We’ve agreed on a process for that.

But as much as you may hate to hear it, not everybody shares your values.

 

[TampaJoe]

Like I said, cue the "you’re ignorant" response. It decreases your credibility even more, so it's all good.

If the shoe fits.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Yeah well I may agree with you on the death penalty and I may also agree with you to a point on abortion. But like so many such questions, there are exceptions. Capital Punishment and Abortion aren’t “yes or no” questions for a whole lot of folks.

You could have answered the question without just saying yes or no. You didn't answer what I asked. You kept giving saying things that had nothing to do with what I asked. It all sounds like excuses for avoiding answering the question I asked.

But as much as you may hate to hear it, not everybody shares your values.

I don't hate that other people don't share my values. I like to hear other peoples values, in fact I directly asked you what your values are. You keep refusing to share your values and keep making excuses for why you're not sharing them. I have no trust or tolerance for people who intentionally hide their values. That's an inherently suspicious and distrustful thing for someone to do.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

You are asking questions that are not “yes” or “no” questions. You are asking questions that depend on facts and circumstances and the law.

We are a nation of laws. Those represent our “shared values”. So if you think those values need adjustment, you need to contact the folks who represent you and get that changed. If you think those laws are being violated, that is what the courts are for.

Yes, he is. He isn't asking about the end results. He is asking you about the method. That has been made incredibly clear. Do you agree with the method being employed by federal agents: masks, unmarked vehicles, refusing to notify family, and not allowing the person being detained to contact family or a lawyer?

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

If the shoe fits.

The memory, language, math, and reasoning parts of my brain cannot be fit in a thimble, neither can yours. So the shoe doesn't fit. You know it doesn't fit metaphorically either.

You're just being petty instead of having any honest and open conversation.

Your choices in this discussion leave you with zero credibility with anyone who isn't an already a card carrying member of Maga, so it's all good.

 

[TampaJoe]

You could have answered the question without just saying yes or no. You didn't answer what I asked. You kept giving saying things that had nothing to do with what I asked. It all sounds like excuses for avoiding answering the question I asked.


I don't hate that other people don't share my values. I like to hear other peoples values, in fact I directly asked you what your values are. You keep refusing to share your values and keep making excuses for why you're not sharing them. I have no trust or tolerance for people who intentionally hide their values. That's an inherently suspicious and distrustful thing for someone to do.

I shared my values in a way that is comfortable to me. Do I want or condone people being treated “badly”. “Badly” means different things to different people.

I don’t require or seek your trust. It is an anonymous board after all. I wouldn’t fully trust anything I read on this board. Most of it is opinion and everybody has one of those.