All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[superchuck500]

 

[SystemShock]

Whoever makes the cakes at your local grocery store is not an artist (even calling them a baker is a stretch, same way I probably wouldn't call the cook at a greasy spoon diner a chef)

But I've seen plenty of cakes where would call the cakes art and the baker an artist

Where is the line?

Again, art is subjective, but I think if a cake baker is sought after for custom, elaborate, one of a kind cakes, I'd put that baker in the artist category.

The baker at the grocery is told what to bake, how to bake it, and how to assemble it.

And look, they don't come any more anti-religion than me (well, I haven't resorted to violence yet ) but in the case of the Colorado baker, I don't think he should be forced to make a cake for an event he doesn't want to actively be a part of. IIRC, he said the couple could buy any cake in the store and use it for the event, but that he was just not going to specifically make one for the event, and while I think it is a stupid position to take, I don't don't really have an issue with it: first of all, it's freaking cake, not a mortgage; and he's definitely not the only wedding cake baker in the Denver metro area, and I'd venture to say, probably not the most talented.

You posted (I believe it was you) and article about a Nazi themed wedding in MX. Would you have forced a Jewish baker to bake a cake for that event? I'm going to venture to say you'd be ok if that baker curses them out his store.

And probably some would point out that the Holocaust is not the same as religious beliefs (even though part of what caused the Holocaust is about religious beliefs, I digress) but the principle is the same.

 

[superchuck500]

"I hate the idea that gay people can get married before the law so much that I'm going to cry about it."

 

[superchuck500]

Again, art is subjective, but I think if a cake baker is sought after for custom, elaborate, one of a kind cakes, I'd put that baker in the artist category.

The baker at the grocery is told what to bake, how to bake it, and how to assemble it.

And look, they don't come any more anti-religion than me (well, I haven't resorted to violence yet ) but in the case of the Colorado baker, I don't think he should be forced to make a cake for an event he doesn't want to actively be a part of. IIRC, he said the couple could buy any cake in the store and use it for the event, but that he was just not going to specifically make one for the event, and while I think it is a stupid position to take, I don't don't really have an issue with it: first of all, it's freaking cake, not a mortgage; and he's definitely not the only wedding cake baker in the Denver metro area, and I'd venture to say, probably not the most talented.

You posted (I believe it was you) and article about a Nazi themed wedding in MX. Would you have forced a Jewish baker to bake a cake for that event? I'm going to venture to say you'd be ok if that baker curses them out his store.

And probably some would point out that the Holocaust is not the same as religious beliefs (even though part of what caused the Holocaust is about religious beliefs, I digress) but the principle is the same.

This discussion y'all are having is interesting and has merit but I think it's a bit beside the point.

The question is simply whether the business involved is a public accommodation. If they are holding themselves out to the general public for hire, they are subject to the public accommodation laws on equal protection. That means the classes of people protected by that law cannot be refused service by that business on the basis of their being in that class.

If a baker is open for business and accepts orders from the public for wedding cakes, the baker can't refuse an order from a gay couple on the basis that the baker doesn't support gay marriage . . . at least not in a state that includes sexual orientation in its public accommodation equal protection law.

Nazis aren't a protected class.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

"I hate the idea that gay people can get married before the law so much that I'm going to cry about it."

hey, she and the ones she's talking about can believe in what their interpitation of marriage is all they want. I just don't need you to force me to believe what you do. If you don't like it, don't marry a gay person. its pretty simple..
Farb was probably crying with her..

 

[SystemShock]

Nazis aren't a protected class.

 

[Farb]

"Irreversible and experimental medical procedures," with drugs, is good way to describe religious brain washing Farb.

The really crazy part you are talking about at the end is really crazy. I haven't changed in the last few years.

Other than my hair growing a bit more grey.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/clin...ing-drug-warns-of-safety-hazards-for-children
A clinical investigator of the drug commonly used off-label to block puberty in trans-identifying adolescents voiced his concerns about administering the drug without conducting proper safety tests.

Dr. Marc B. Garnick, a Harvard professor, oncologist, and co-principal investigator for the drug Lupron, wrote a letter to the editor of the New York Times in support of a recent investigation into the health effects of puberty blocker drugs for adolescents experiencing gender dysphoria.

“The scholarly and well-researched article raises significant safety issues about using puberty blockers in prepubescent and pubescent children as part of gender transitioning,” Garnick argued.

The letter was one of four accepted in response to the NYT article that described the “long-term physical effects and other consequences” of puberty blockers prescribed to adolescents experiencing gender distress. The other three letters, which were not written by medical professionals, criticized the article as “transphobic.”

 

[Farb]

Provide evidence to support your assertion.

I have. Try and keep up.

 

[MT15]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/clin...ing-drug-warns-of-safety-hazards-for-children
A clinical investigator of the drug commonly used off-label to block puberty in trans-identifying adolescents voiced his concerns about administering the drug without conducting proper safety tests.

Dr. Marc B. Garnick, a Harvard professor, oncologist, and co-principal investigator for the drug Lupron, wrote a letter to the editor of the New York Times in support of a recent investigation into the health effects of puberty blocker drugs for adolescents experiencing gender dysphoria.

“The scholarly and well-researched article raises significant safety issues about using puberty blockers in prepubescent and pubescent children as part of gender transitioning,” Garnick argued.

The letter was one of four accepted in response to the NYT article that described the “long-term physical effects and other consequences” of puberty blockers prescribed to adolescents experiencing gender distress. The other three letters, which were not written by medical professionals, criticized the article as “transphobic.”

So, did you read up on what he is talking about? I’ll bet you didn’t. It doesn’t mean that they don’t work, it just means that there needs to be monitoring of a potential for not gaining as much calcium in bones. And it isn’t even that they lose calcium, if not monitored properly, it’s just that they don’t gain as much calcium as is normal for adolescence.

 

[bird]

I have. Try and keep up.

Then you can do it again.

 

[Farb]

This discussion y'all are having is interesting and has merit but I think it's a bit beside the point.

The question is simply whether the business involved is a public accommodation. If they are holding themselves out to the general public for hire, they are subject to the public accommodation laws on equal protection. That means the classes of people protected by that law cannot be refused service by that business on the basis of their being in that class.

If a baker is open for business and accepts orders from the public for wedding cakes, the baker can't refuse an order from a gay couple on the basis that the baker doesn't support gay marriage . . . at least not in a state that includes sexual orientation in its public accommodation equal protection law.

Nazis aren't a protected class.

Is the question not, does the state have the authority to compel a person to use his/her talents to be a part of a ceremony that is against their moral principles? Obviously, I say no.
Would you consider having your 'art' as a center piece during a ceremony different from saying eating lunch in restaurant or going into a store and buying some shoes?
Is sexual orientation to be considered a characteristic or a decision? There are several that can feel a compulsion for something and not partake. That decision could be sex with a woman or sex with a man, drugs, murder ect..

On another slippery slope that I think will be coming, what about polyonomy? How is the state now defining marriage now?

 

[Farb]

So, did you read up on what he is talking about? I’ll bet you didn’t. It doesn’t mean that they don’t work, it just means that there needs to be monitoring of a potential for not gaining as much calcium in bones. And it isn’t even that they lose calcium, if not monitored properly, it’s just that they don’t gain as much calcium as is normal for adolescence.

Are you saying they need to monitor and do more studies of the long term effects on children? That is what he is saying. So, when I said they dont have long term studies I was correct?

 

[Farb]

Then you can do it again.

I can but I won't. I think you can read. Or, now this is just a suggestion, you can pay attention now, because, we a group are going over it right now. Just a few posts up. I have faith in you.

 

[Farb]

hey, she and the ones she's talking about can believe in what their interpitation of marriage is all they want. I just don't need you to force me to believe what you do. If you don't like it, don't marry a gay person. its pretty simple..
Farb was probably crying with her..

Nope, I agree with what you said. I would also add if you want to marry a gay person, dont expect to get married in a church that doesn't support gay marriage. There are plenty that do. Pretty simple too.

 

[SamAndreas]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/clin...ing-drug-warns-of-safety-hazards-for-children
A clinical investigator of the drug commonly used off-label to block puberty in trans-identifying adolescents voiced his concerns about administering the drug without conducting proper safety tests.

Dr. Marc B. Garnick, a Harvard professor, oncologist, and co-principal investigator for the drug Lupron, wrote a letter to the editor of the New York Times in support of a recent investigation into the health effects of puberty blocker drugs for adolescents experiencing gender dysphoria.

“The scholarly and well-researched article raises significant safety issues about using puberty blockers in prepubescent and pubescent children as part of gender transitioning,” Garnick argued.

The letter was one of four accepted in response to the NYT article that described the “long-term physical effects and other consequences” of puberty blockers prescribed to adolescents experiencing gender distress. The other three letters, which were not written by medical professionals, criticized the article as “transphobic.”

You didn't deal with my statement at all. You tried to sub in something bawl, bawl, bawl, else.

Next!

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Is sexual orientation to be considered a characteristic or a decision? There are several that can feel a compulsion for something and not partake. That decision could be sex with a woman or sex with a man, drugs, murder ect..

Are you saying the desire/decision to partake in a same sex physical relationship is comparable to a compulsion/decision to take street drugs or commit murder?

Farb, "Are you gay?"

Whoever, "yes".

Farb, "Just say no."

 

[MT15]

Are you saying they need to monitor and do more studies of the long term effects on children? That is what he is saying. So, when I said they dont have long term studies I was correct?

No. Your reading comprehension is terrible. They need to do some testing and monitoring of calcium levels. The side effect doesn’t have anything to do with anything psychological. It’s a biological side effect that can be dealt with if they watch for it and deal with it.

They have studies. They are constantly doing studies. You can look them up.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Is the question not, does the state have the authority to compel a person to use his/her talents to be a part of a ceremony that is against their moral principles? Obviously, I say no.
Would you consider having your 'art' as a center piece during a ceremony different from saying eating lunch in restaurant or going into a store and buying some shoes?
Is sexual orientation to be considered a characteristic or a decision? There are several that can feel a compulsion for something and not partake. That decision could be sex with a woman or sex with a man, drugs, murder ect..

On another slippery slope that I think will be coming, what about polyonomy? How is the state now defining marriage now?

According to Colorado, it's a protected characteristic. How about you? Do you think it's a characteristic or a choice?