What happens to the Republican Party now? (3 Viewers)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Sigh. Show me any school that does not teach what you want. Show me what “things have entered the classroom that are not on that list.”

Things taught for centuries? Blacks were inferior. Asians were sneaky. Mexicans were lazy. Jews were greedy and controlled the world. Oh, and they murdered God. Whites were superior. Natives were barbarians and savages.

Yes, DeathSantis is precisely the next iteration of Trump.

Sigh all you want.
I've been teaching 5th grade band since 1985.
I'm still an active teacher with no declared retirement date.
None of my colleagues have ever taught the things in your 2nd paragraph...YOU list things about blacks, asians, etc. .....the classroom teachers in my town never taught anything negative on YOUR list.
Re. DeSantis. DeSantis is his own person.
Harvard...Yale....Bronze Star....Successful (in MY eyes...not yours)...successful governor.
He does NOT NEED Trump.
He is better off withOUT Trump.
Leave our classroom teachers alone!
Don't imagine negative things about them.

 

[bird]

HE is an Ivy Leaguer ( Yale and Harvard) . HE was awarded a Bronze Star. HE is running a state in which people are moving into more than people are moving out of. DeSantis is not a psychopath and YOU are correct if YOU perceive him to possibly be the GOP standard bearer in 2024. I am sure people here will do a lot if name calling.

His education and military service is irrelevant. His election police force is an example of his psychopathology. As is his obsession with CRT, his obsession with human sexuality.

As more idiotic boomers, I am a boomer, retire many will run to where there are lower taxes. So population shift is not arbitrarily caused by DeathSantis’ policies Beyond taxes. Of course people get nibbled to death by fees but, hey, discernment is in short supply. Unfortunately, as the environment continues to degrade and the climate continues to alter places like Miami will be abandoned.

 

[bird]

Sigh all you want.
I've been teaching 5th grade band since 1985.
I'm still an active teacher with no declared retirement date.
None of my colleagues have ever taught the things in your 2nd paragraph...YOU list things about blacks, asians, etc. .....the classroom teachers in my town never taught anything negative on YOUR list.
Re. DeSantis. DeSantis is his own person.
Harvard...Yale....Bronze Star....Successful (in MY eyes...not yours)...successful governor.
He does NOT NEED Trump.
He is better off withOUT Trump.
Leave our classroom teachers alone!
Don't imagine negative things about them.

YOUR post mentioned “things taught for centuries”. If you believe for one moment that those things were not underlying what was taught in the 1700’s, 1800’s and 1900’s either openly or covertly then you are a fool.

You are damn right to say leave our teachers alone. That includes DeathSantis leaving them alone but you miss the irony.

His education and military service are irrelevant.

He needed Trump in order to polish his Trumpian policies. To think otherwise is stupidity.

Oh, and Florida will be running into a demographic problem as more boomers retire. Wages will have to rise to attract new workers as the ratio between workers and retirees drops.

http://edr.state.fl.us/Content/presentations/population-demographics/DemographicTrends_1-28-20.pdf

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

YOUR post mentioned “things taught for centuries”. If you believe for one moment that those things were not underlying what was taught in the 1700’s, 1800’s and 1900’s either openly or covertly then you are a fool.

You are damn right to say leave our teachers alone. That includes DeathSantis leaving them alone but you miss the irony.

His education and military service are irrelevant.

He needed Trump in order to polish his Trumpian policies. To think otherwise is stupidity.

Oh, and Florida will be running into a demographic problem as more boomers retire. Wages will have to rise to attract new workers as the ratio between workers and retirees drops.

http://edr.state.fl.us/Content/presentations/population-demographics/DemographicTrends_1-28-20.pdf

I am NOT a fool.
My colleagues have taught the following:
Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue in 1492
Paul Revere warned his countryman that the redcoats were on their way.
The Declaration of Independence was signed in Philadelphia in 1776
George Washington was our first president.
Abraham Lincoln found slavery to be unacceptable and he stood strong in his convictions until victory was achieved.
America sent troops abroad in WWI and WWII because we felt that was the right thing to do.
Martin Luther King taught that A PERSON SHOULD BE JUDGED BY THE CONTENT OF THEIR CHARACTER...NOT BY THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.
That's what classroom teachers have taught since I was born.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I am NOT a fool.
My colleagues have taught the following:
Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue in 1492
Paul Revere warned his countryman that the redcoats were on their way.
The Declaration of Independence was signed in Philadelphia in 1776
George Washington was our first president.
Abraham Lincoln found slavery to be unacceptable and he stood strong in his convictions until victory was achieved.
America sent troops abroad in WWI and WWII because we felt that was the right thing to do.
Martin Luther King taught that A PERSON SHOULD BE JUDGED BY THE CONTENT OF THEIR CHARACTER...NOT BY THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.
That's what classroom teachers have taught since I was born.

And most of those are more complicated than those simplistic statements

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

And most of those are more complicated than those simplistic statements

Sure. It is Saturday and over 90 degrees yet again. I am just keeping it simple

 

[MT15]

Steve, I do worry about this country when actual teachers cannot see the danger in the Republican penchant to try to control classroom speech. In Florida teachers in same sex marriages were recently advised that they should remove all family pictures from their classroom. In other areas teachers are being forced to remove a rainbow sticker. A Republican recently proposed that teachers shouldn’t use the word “slavery” and call it forced relocation or some other euphemism.

This is a new wave of McCarthyism, and people like DeSantis are all in. His hunger for power seems to be limitless, and that’s a bit concerning. He is well educated, as you say, yet he went hard for Trump. He’s willing to do or say nearly anything to become President, imo. He has already used the powers of his office to punish corporations for training their employees in ways he didn’t like. He also is punishing Disney for expressing criticism of one of his bills that he signed into law, which prompted his spokesman to utter the immortal line to the press I referenced earlier - Governor DeSantis will NOT be criticized.

If you are a small government conservative - and there are damn few of them left - he’s not your guy.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Steve, I do worry about this country when actual teachers cannot see the danger in the Republican penchant to try to control classroom speech. In Florida teachers in same sex marriages were recently advised that they should remove all family pictures from their classroom. In other areas teachers are being forced to remove a rainbow sticker. A Republican recently proposed that teachers shouldn’t use the word “slavery” and call it forced relocation or some other euphemism.

This is a new wave of McCarthyism, and people like DeSantis are all in. His hunger for power seems to be limitless, and that’s a bit concerning. He is well educated, as you say, yet he went hard for Trump. He’s willing to do or say nearly anything to become President, imo. He has already used the powers of his office to punish corporations for training their employees in ways he didn’t like. He also is punishing Disney for expressing criticism of one of his bills that he signed into law, which prompted his spokesman to utter the immortal line to the press I referenced earlier - Governor DeSantis will NOT be criticized.

If you are a small government conservative - and there are damn few of them left - he’s not your guy.

I did not know about your first paragraph.
Life in my NJ elementary school is different than what you describe.
That vast majority of elementary school teachers I work with do not want to discuss sexual stuff or gender identity .....not interested in that with the little ones. Let the parents and guardians do that. The vast majority of my colleagues would like to stick to math...english...grammar...science...social studies/history....leave the other stuff to be taught within the elementary school child's home.
*
*

Middle School and High School is not my realm.
I don't pretend to have an understanding of those children or that curriculum.

 

[bird]

I am NOT a fool.
My colleagues have taught the following:
Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue in 1492
Paul Revere warned his countryman that the redcoats were on their way.
The Declaration of Independence was signed in Philadelphia in 1776
George Washington was our first president.
Abraham Lincoln found slavery to be unacceptable and he stood strong in his convictions until victory was achieved.
America sent troops abroad in WWI and WWII because we felt that was the right thing to do.
Martin Luther King taught that A PERSON SHOULD BE JUDGED BY THE CONTENT OF THEIR CHARACTER...NOT BY THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.
That's what classroom teachers have taught since I was born.

You are 6 years younger than me but let’s press on.

Columbus is irrelevant. The Vikings were in North America long before he was in the Caribbean.

The Revolution was far more complex than standard flag-waving rah-rah-ism.

Washington would have been astounded at the direction this country has taken many times.

Lincoln’s position regarding slavery within the context of preserving the union was an order of magnitude more complex. Of course, conservatives opposed him on the question of slavery.

WW1 (which we are still paying for politically) was a nightmare and the result of the so-called Great Game between the European powers. The end result was the cosmic scale mess called the Middle East. Wilson, racist that he was, contributed to the mess that arose. Congress, iirc, did not ratify the Treaty of Versailles.

WW2 which arose from the ashes of WW1 was also far more complex. Included in that is the myth that “We Defeated The Nazis”. This is far from the truth. Roosevelt counted on the Soviets doing the bleeding in Europe. And bleed they did. The Soviets lost more casualties in one week during the height of the war than we did in the entire Pacific theatre. The rationale for using atomic weapons has been debated since they were used. We will never know the answer to that question.

People judged by the content of their character? Jews will not replace us and rants about CRT. The CRT rant is one of DeathSantis’s favorite meme’s.

 

[MT15]

I did not know about your first paragraph.
Life in my NJ elementary school is different than what you describe.
That vast majority of elementary school teachers I work with do not want to discuss sexual stuff or gender identity .....not interested in that with the little ones. Let the parents and guardians do that. The vast majority of my colleagues would like to stick to math...english...grammar...science...social studies/history....leave the other stuff to be taught within the elementary school child's home.
*
*

Middle School and High School is not my realm.
I don't pretend to have an understanding of those children or that curriculum.

So, do you think teachers somewhere else are different than your colleagues? Like, in Florida or Virginia? I would posit they are not different. They are being treated badly, with little or no evidence of wrongdoing.

Truly, teachers in Florida and other R states are being attacked. Their motives are being questioned, they are being called “groomers” if they happen to be gay or even if they merely try to oppose smears against gay teachers. Ron DeSantis is pushing for a bill that would allow anyone to sue a teacher if that teacher made their child “uncomfortable”, presumably by teaching about real historical events, but it’s easy to see how this bill opens a huge can of worms.

From a Washington Post article about DeSantis

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/02/07/desantis-anti-woke-act/

“Even some Florida Republicans lament DeSantis’s approach, which they describe as divisive and a step back from how past state GOP leaders have governed. “Our party has become mean, and driven by emotion on whom we dislike,” said Alex Patton, a Gainesville-based Republican consultant and pollster. “But that is the driving force in American politics right now.””

 

[bird]

I did not know about your first paragraph.
Life in my NJ elementary school is different than what you describe.
That vast majority of elementary school teachers I work with do not want to discuss sexual stuff or gender identity .....not interested in that with the little ones. Let the parents and guardians do that. The vast majority of my colleagues would like to stick to math...english...grammar...science...social studies/history....leave the other stuff to be taught within the elementary school child's home.
*
*

Middle School and High School is not my realm.
I don't pretend to have an understanding of those children or that curriculum.

And NOBODY IS FORCING THEM TO DISCUSS THOSE THINGS. But Republicans like DeathSantis are stirring the pot with unfounded bullschlitz about sexuality and CRT.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

You are 6 years younger than me but let’s press on.

Columbus is irrelevant. The Vikings were in North America long before he was in the Caribbean.

The Revolution was far more complex than standard flag-waving rah-rah-ism.

Washington would have been astounded at the direction this country has taken many times.

Lincoln’s position regarding slavery within the context of preserving the union was an order of magnitude more complex. Of course, conservatives opposed him on the question of slavery.

WW1 (which we are still paying for politically) was a nightmare and the result of the so-called Great Game between the European powers. The end result was the cosmic scale mess called the Middle East. Wilson, racist that he was, contributed to the mess that arose. Congress, iirc, did not ratify the Treaty of Versailles.

WW2 which arose from the ashes of WW1 was also far more complex. Included in that is the myth that “We Defeated The Nazis”. This is far from the truth. Roosevelt counted on the Soviets doing the bleeding in Europe. And bleed they did. The Soviets lost more casualties in one week during the height of the war than we did in the entire Pacific theatre. The rationale for using atomic weapons has been debated since they were used. We will never know the answer to that question.

People judged by the content of their character? Jews will not replace us and rants about CRT. The CRT rant is one of DeathSantis’s favorite meme’s.

Well done! No name calling. Stating your view in a clear and persuasive manner.
Good job!
I am not gonna respond to you point by point.
That would require a lot of research and much thought....then you would respond to me...and on and on it would go.
I am gonna enjoy my day with my wife and daughter.
Good post though.
Bye for now.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

And NOBODY IS FORCING THEM TO DISCUSS THOSE THINGS. But Republicans like DeathSantis are stirring the pot with unfounded bullschlitz about sexuality and CRT.

I am not in Florida but I remember a conversation with a NJ colleague. She was fearful that the elementary classroom teachers WOULD eventually be "forced" to present things that are not on the list I've provided twice today. It hypothetically might become part of the curriculum and therefore mandatory.

 

[MT15]

I am not in Florida but I remember a conversation with a NJ colleague. She was fearful that the elementary classroom teachers WOULD eventually be "forced" to present things that are not on the list I've provided twice today. It hypothetically might become part of the curriculum and therefore mandatory.

And yet, nobody is forced to teach CRT anywhere. But Rs are getting busy forcing teachers to adhere to their political ideology. They are banning books, banning words in the classroom.

Its not wise to respond to concern over one extreme by careening wildly in the other direction. At least to me.

 

[bird]

I am not in Florida but I remember a conversation with a NJ colleague. She was fearful that the elementary classroom teachers WOULD eventually be "forced" to present things that are not on the list I've provided twice today. It hypothetically might become part of the curriculum and therefore mandatory.

Fear of something causes reactions that vary. Fear of something like that is irrational.

Beyond that I suggest Joshua Cooper Ramo’s book The Age of The Unthinkable. Change is constant. Its speed is not constant. It accelerates and deccelerates. Fear of change is even more irrational. It is understandable which does not change irrationality. All of which becomes irrelevant.

This is a socio-psychological problem.

 

[CoolBrees]

i can’t tell if my favorite omission from our friend from the Turnpike State - the only state where someone asks your where you are from and when you respond New Jersey, they ask “which exit?”

I digress.

I think it is the omission of Trump’s lack of caring about anyone or anything but himself. that in the most hopeful scenario - DeSantis in and Trump out - that Trump is going to go quietly into that good night. Or generally be out of the picture one way or another.

No.

Unless he is behind bars he will be your nominee. Or screaming it was stolen from him. He torpedoes anyone who dare oppose him. Let alone beat him.

And unless there is video and audio of trump admitting to crimes , he ain’t going to jail.

Hell. Quite possibly, he may win the nomination even as a felon. You think they (his cult) will accept anything he tells them not to? They still think he won last election (yet somehow can run again) for jeebus sakes.

Get used to it-
your boy will bend the knee just like all the other spineless jellyfish in that party.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Good article From a couple years ago
===================
One of the important lessons Americans learned from Donald Trump’s election in 2016—and one still difficult for some of us to process almost four years later—is just how many of our fellow citizens are predisposed to authoritarianism.

In high school civics we were taught that “American authoritarianism” was an oxymoron. Authoritarianism was a relic of the past. America was a country founded on freedom, steeped in equality and justice, and uniquely immune to it……

What I found is thatapproximately 18 percent of Americans are highly disposed to authoritarianism, according to their answers to four simple survey questions used by social scientists to estimate this disposition.

A further 23 percent or so are just one step below them on the authoritarian scale.

This roughly 40 percent of Americans tend to favor authority, obedience and uniformity over freedom, independence and diversity.

This group isn’t a monolith, and these findings don’t mean that 4 in 10 Americans prefer dictatorship to democracy.

Authoritarianism is best understood not as a policy preference, the way we talk about lower taxes or strong defense, but rather as a worldview that can be “activated” in the right historical moment by anyone with a big enough megaphone who is willing to play on voters’ fears and insecurities.

When activated by fear, authoritarian-leaning Americans are predisposed to trade civil liberties for strongman solutions to secure law and order; and they are ready to strip civil liberties from those defined as the “other”—a far cry from the image of America as a country built on a shared commitment to liberty and democratic governance.

So what do authoritarians in the US believe? In surveys I found that American authoritarians, compared with non-authoritarians, are more likely to agree that our country should be governed by a strong leader who doesn’t have to bother with Congress or elections.

They are more likely to support limiting the freedom of the press and agree that the media is the enemy of the people rather than a valuable independent institution.

They are also more likely to think the president should have the power to limit the voice and vote of opposition parties, while believing that those who disagree with them are a threat to our country—a concerning trend as we head to the polls this year.

American authoritarians fear diversity. They are more likely to agree that increasing racial, religious and ethnic diversity is a clear and present threat to national security.

They are more fearful of people of other races, and agree with the statement that “sometimes other groups must be kept in their place.”……..

Trump Is an Authoritarian. So Are Millions of Americans

It’s not how we think of our fellow-citizens, but no matter who wins in November, the impulse will be very much alive in the country. What do they want?

www.politico.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

From same article, and I’m not going to lie

I heard the Brandeis quote in Yoda’s voice
==================================

…….American thinkers have been alert to the dangers of authoritarianism stoked by demagogues since the nation’s founding.

In Federalist 63, James Madison warned of the danger the “infection of [the] violent passions” stoked by “the artful misrepresentations of interested men” posed to the future of the Republic.

In a 1927 Supreme Court opinion, Justice Louis Brandeis cautioned that: “Those who won our independence believed … that fear breeds repression; that repression breeds hate; that hate menaces stable government.”

The historian Richard Hofstadter, in 1964, labeled the weaponization of fear to attain power as the “paranoid style in American politics,” describing it as an “old and recurrent phenomenon in our public life” that “has a greater affinity for bad causes than good” and “has been frequently linked with movement of suspicious discontent.”…….