US strikes deal w/ Taliban to remove troops from Afghanistan (1 Viewer)

[Heathen]

Surprised I didn't see it posted anywhere. And to preface -- I know there are too many contextual complexities to name regarding this.

Props to this administration for pushing to get this done. Endless war shouldn't be what American citizens view as 'normal'.

This would be a huge win for Americans and Afghanis if this works out as planned:

Afghan conflict: US and Taliban sign deal to end 18-year war

President Trump says it is "time after all these years to bring our people back home".

www.bbc.com

The US and Nato allies have agreed to withdraw all troops within 14 months if the militants uphold the deal.

President Trump said it had been a "long and hard journey" in Afghanistan. "It's time after all these years to bring our people back home," he said.

Talks between the Afghan government and the Taliban are due to follow.

Under the agreement, the militants also agreed not to allow al-Qaeda or any other extremist group to operate in the areas they control.

 

[SystemShock]

The Taliban are right wing religious fundamentalists, no different than some Trumpers. I am surprised you have sympathy for them.

I already gave you your participation trophy.

 

[coldseat]

Y'all really need to stop responding to Paul. His only objective in every thread is to make some ludicrous statement and derail the conversation down some irrelevant rabbit hole. It starts the same way in every thread. It's past tired. Let's just ignore him so that we can continue having decent conversation.

 

[Taurus]

There was no hope.

The people of Afghanistan have been fighting among themselves or against an invading force for half a century - and yes, the U.S. was an invading force. If you are under 50 years old and live in Afghanistan, you've known and lived through armed conflict your entire life. You may think that they all gave up once the U.S. left, but the history of constant conflict doesn't support that assertion.

In the U.S., we have put the armed forces on a pedestal, romanticizing the idea of fighting/dying for one's country. Most of the world doesn't, and those very few who do, don't come to the level of the U.S.'s adulation for anything military. It is easy to do that when you live in a place like the U.S., isolated from conflict within your borders, while wars are fought across many oceans.

But Afghani fight on their turf, against their own. So what is it? Fighting for one's country? Ideology? Money? Because that's all you have known all of your life: pick a side and get a firearm?

And you forget, the Taliban fight for their country too; but like they say, every freedom fighter is someone else's terrorist. You may not like what the Taliban stands for, but apparently a very large chunk of Afghanistan's population does - and given how fast the Taliban took over, I'd dare say it is the majority of the population.

As for them needing our "leadership", I wouldn't call the U.S. actions in Afghanistan "leadership". 20 years of occupation and trillions of dollars spent, to prop up a corrupt system that abused its own, and folded like a cheap abaya once Sugar Daddy Warbucks left the building; that is not leadership by any reasonable measure.

The Taliban is a hyper conservative fundamentalist religious movement. They are a billion times worse than the most evangelical fundamentalists in America. They do not deserve any words that remotely resembles acceptance or kindness. I understand some folks think the "enemy of my enemy" is my friend and hence see them as a positive, however, that is a mistake.

What acceptance? What kindness? You can express respect for an enemies tenacity and admit to facts as they are regarding local support without "loving" that enemy.

The Wermacht was a skilled, formidable fighting force. That's just a fact.
I can admit this without being on board with the Holocaust.

 

[J-DONK]

Multiple ethnic groups living together works best with the adoption of a single unifying culture that serves as an umbrella. Multiple ethnic groups with different cultures is a recipe for no unity during times of stress. 14 tribes during times of stress is not a plan for a solid unified front.

Just look at the division of America along different cultural lines.

America has maybe one of the strongest cultures that is exported to the rest of the world. Most of the culture war is really just the agitprop fed to the right to fuel the outrage machine: critical race theory, Happy Holidays vs Merry Christmas, vaccines, and transgender bathrooms. We all still sit around the water cooler, and talk about football, or the latest marvel movie. I'll also add that this culture war is a massive divisive distraction so the poors don't start a class war. The average middle class conservative has far more in common with a union loving, mask wearing liberal then Bezos, Gates, Koch, or Murdoch. You point to something that is highly manufactured mainly for the purpose of conformity to your tribal values.

 

[Paul]

America has maybe one of the strongest cultures that is exported to the rest of the world. Most of the culture war is really just the agitprop fed to the right to fuel the outrage machine: critical race theory, Happy Holidays vs Merry Christmas, vaccines, and transgender bathrooms. We all still sit around the water cooler, and talk about football, or the latest marvel movie. I'll also add that this culture war is a massive divisive distraction so the poors don't start a class war. The average middle class conservative has far more in common with a union loving, mask wearing liberal then Bezos, Gates, Koch, or Murdoch. You point to something that is highly manufactured mainly for the purpose of conformity to your tribal values.

And yet America managed to politicize football, a great unifying force. A society that is not united becomes tribal and balkanized. I see tribalism between the right a left wingers. I can see elements of that tribalism right here in this forum. The Happy Holidays versus Xmas is a good example of tribal loyalty.

The Threat of Tribalism

The Constitution once united a diverse country under a banner of ideas. But partisanship has turned Americans against one another—and against the principles enshrined in our founding document.

www.theatlantic.com

The Hidden Tribes of America

A year-long project of More in Common launched in October 2018. Download the ReportTake the QuizDownloadthe Midterms Update

hiddentribes.us

What is really scary about this tribalism is that people in each side believe all the tenets of of left wing or right wing extremism . I have been told I am not real for being a centrist. People desperately seek to place people in the right or left tribe. To make matters worse America has embraced race ID politics which as expected caused the right to also embrace race ID politics.

 

[Paul]

What acceptance? What kindness? You can express respect for an enemies tenacity and admit to facts as they are regarding local support without "loving" that enemy.

The Wermacht was a skilled, formidable fighting force. That's just a fact.
I can admit this without being on board with the Holocaust.

I believe many have a kind eye towards the Taliban because they defeated America in Afghanistan.

 

[RebSaint]

Another quality thread on its way to ruination.

 

[DaveXA]

I believe many have a kind eye towards the Taliban because they defeated America in Afghanistan.

Lmao, you're either deliberately ignoring what people are saying, or you have a serious reading comprehension problem.

 

[SFIDC3]

Here are a few things forum members have said. They love the Taliban.

This is perhaps the most assinine comment I have read on this board. You are either willfully ignorant, or purposely trolling.....

 

[insidejob]

I believe many have a kind eye towards the Taliban because they defeated America in Afghanistan.

When Obvious Troll becomes so obvious that it's not even worthy of the title any more, what is Obvious Troll then? Thread Killer?

 

[zztop]

ah yes, those lefties sure glorify them. oh wait...




(O'Neill was a member of seal team 6 and who claimed to have killed Bin Laden)

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

And yet America managed to politicize football, a great unifying force. A society that is not united becomes tribal and balkanized. I see tribalism between the right a left wingers. I can see elements of that tribalism right here in this forum. The Happy Holidays versus Xmas is a good example of tribal loyalty.

The Threat of Tribalism

The Constitution once united a diverse country under a banner of ideas. But partisanship has turned Americans against one another—and against the principles enshrined in our founding document.

www.theatlantic.com

The Hidden Tribes of America

A year-long project of More in Common launched in October 2018. Download the ReportTake the QuizDownloadthe Midterms Update

hiddentribes.us

What is really scary about this tribalism is that people in each side believe all the tenets of of left wing or right wing extremism . I have been told I am not real for being a centrist. People desperately seek to place people in the right or left tribe. To make matters worse America has embraced race ID politics which as expected caused the right to also embrace race ID politics.

Shaka, when the walls fell.

Your post are the only post in this thread that has expressed "tribal" views. All the other post were composed of individual beliefs and the discussions were based off of those beliefs.

 

[bdb13]

Biden's been lying quite a bit through this whole thing.

 

[bdb13]

I get their calculations to be made.. but I hate that this admin made the decision to aid the Taliban's PR campaign.

 

[DaveXA]

Biden's been lying quite a bit through this whole thing.

Well, he already stated that they couldn't guarantee the security of anyone outside the airport and anyone attempting to go is essentially on their own until they get into the airport. I feel bad for anyone trapped outside the airport, but the administration in so many words has clearly said tough sheet, you're on you're own.

 

[bdb13]

Well, he already stated that they couldn't guarantee the security of anyone outside the airport and anyone attempting to go is essentially on their own until they get into the airport. I feel bad for anyone trapped outside the airport, but the administration in so many words has clearly said tough sheet, you're on you're own.

To be fair, the admin has said a lot and it hasn't all been consistent.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

To be fair, the admin has said a lot and it hasn't all been consistent.

Just think, if they had been truly honest about what to expect with the withdrawal, ta lot of this mess could have been avoided. I understand that they had plenty on their plate with this pandemic, but they are expected to multi-task. They should have prioritized the removal of all civilians that they claimed responsibility for prior removal of forces and that should have started in 2020 once they reached this deal. Biden's greatest failure was not acknowledging that there would be key Afghan civilian allies that would be in imminent danger and we would need to pause the withdrawal until we were able to get them out.

 

[DaveXA]

Yeah, I actually like Biden and think he's done alright so far. But this issue has been poorly handled. I've seen several comments in the media describing the Administration as being caught flat-footed, and I tend to agree. I also think Biden knew this could happen and is just feigning ignorance by saying no one thought this would happen this fast, when the intel available suggested otherwise.