US strikes deal w/ Taliban to remove troops from Afghanistan (1 Viewer)

[Heathen]

Surprised I didn't see it posted anywhere. And to preface -- I know there are too many contextual complexities to name regarding this.

Props to this administration for pushing to get this done. Endless war shouldn't be what American citizens view as 'normal'.

This would be a huge win for Americans and Afghanis if this works out as planned:

Afghan conflict: US and Taliban sign deal to end 18-year war

President Trump says it is "time after all these years to bring our people back home".

www.bbc.com

The US and Nato allies have agreed to withdraw all troops within 14 months if the militants uphold the deal.

President Trump said it had been a "long and hard journey" in Afghanistan. "It's time after all these years to bring our people back home," he said.

Talks between the Afghan government and the Taliban are due to follow.

Under the agreement, the militants also agreed not to allow al-Qaeda or any other extremist group to operate in the areas they control.

 

[DaveXA]

I keep seeing on TV and reading that this was "an intelligence failure". I disagree. I think it was well-known in the U.S. intelligence community that the Afghan government and military would rapidly collapse. Maybe many people in the intel community thought it would happen in a few weeks instead of a few days, but that is not an intelligence failure.

This was a "wishful thinking" failure by the Biden Administration -- they hoped that the collapse of the Afghan government would not occur as quickly as it did, but they were wrong.

Yeah, I suppose Biden simply said we're doing what we gonna do regardless what intel says about what might happen. But idk what went on behind closed doors.

 

[efil4]

Perhaps reports are wrong, but according to the AP, 66,000 Afghan troops have been killed.

Costs of the Afghanistan war, in lives and dollars

At just short of 20 years, the now-ending U.S. combat mission in Afghanistan was America's longest war.

apnews.com

"THE LONGEST WAR:

Percentage of U.S. population born since the 2001 attacks plotted by al-Qaida leaders who were sheltering in Afghanistan: Roughly one out of every four.

THE HUMAN COST:
American service members killed in Afghanistan through April: 2,448.
U.S. contractors: 3,846.
Afghan national military and police: 66,000.
Other allied service members, including from other NATO member states: 1,144.
Afghan civilians: 47,245.
Taliban and other opposition fighters: 51,191.
Aid workers: 444.
Journalists: 72."

Also, there are reports in the New York Times about daily fights. It's behind a paywall, but here are two particularly bloody days from about 2 weeks ago, which also states how many died in July:

"July 30-31, 2021​

At least 34 Afghan security forces and 13 civilians were killed in the two last two days of July, with several incidents reported in and around the provincial capitals of Helmand and Herat provinces. The deadliest attack occurred in Samangan Province, where the Taliban attacked Firoz Nakhchir district, killing eight pro-government militia members. The fighting continued for hours and one outpost fell to the Taliban. In the month of July, at least 335 security forces and 189 civilians were killed, though this is likely an undercount as the deteriorating security has made it increasingly difficult to verify casualties."

Afghans were fighting and dying for their country.

correct and the remaining "afghan forces" werent exactly "all in"

So there is my point- there was no real "sacrifice" as a whole country. They knew it was inevitable to fight this fight. At some point when in Rome...

Our mere "presence" was not going to keep them in the fight. We would have had to had a MASSIVE presence there...not sporadic forces and contractors. Massive amounts of equipment, troops and other logistics to just maintain their morale. Thats not even factoring in the "re-education" part for corruption in every part of the govt, the citizens etc. When you tally all that up, it was a money pit. For what? Trying to bring them into 21st century?

Im all for supporting US involvement when atrocities take place. Im NOT for nation building when its done half arse. You cannot half arse it and HOPE that it will take. Thats not logical. Thats fantasy.

 

[bdb13]

Oh, I wasn’t defending the lack of intel about how quickly it all happened. They were absolutely unprepared for that.

But I do think there’s been quite a bit of over the top reporting about the situation. Just listening briefly and skimming the news, I thought there had been a lot of death and destruction. Maybe that was me not paying enough attention, but when I finally figured out that the Taliban had basically just walked into Kabul and took over without firing a shot, I was somewhat surprised. And then today I read that they are encouraging government workers to report and telling them they are in no danger, I’m starting to suspect there is some sensationalism going on in the press. (lol, shocker, I know.)

Who's encouraging government workers to return, the Taliban?

I'm also unsure to level this was a pure intelligence failure.. I know it's easy for the admin at this point to just push it all off onto the intelligence community, but my guess is that we're going to learn that this was pretty close to the expected results and, like @Kerry Won Ohio said, that the admin was pumping out a lot of wishful thinking and best case scenario crap.

 

[MT15]

Something to keep in mind about the talk shows, their main activity is attracting and keeping viewers. Some do it more authentically than others, so you have to evaluate on your own. But this is from someone who knows this side of the coin:

 

[MT15]

Yes, the Taliban wants them to go to their jobs and says there will be no reprisals. I don’t know whether to believe them or not, but if it buys us time to get people out, then that’s a good deal.

 

[samiam5211]

Yes, the Taliban wants them to go to their jobs and says there will be no reprisals. I don’t know whether to believe them or not, but if it buys us time to get people out, then that’s a good deal.

I don't think we've see any ISIS style murdering and pillaging at this point. Yes, the Taliban is taking over, but it doesn't seem like they are getting much resistance from most people. Maybe i have just missed the stories of mass beheadings.

I am not saying that the Taliban deserves the benefit of the doubt, but so far it just looks like the Taliban is taking control over the government structures that were already in place, they aren't trying to burn it all to the ground.

I doubt they are going to establish a Malala scholarship for girls or anything, but it seems to me that people's fear of the Taliban is what is causing most of the panic, rather than the actions of the Taliban during their return to power.

Sharia is going to be the law of the land, and while terrible, it isn't something far removed from the will of the people of Afganistan.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I keep seeing on TV and reading that this was "an intelligence failure". I disagree. I think it was well-known in the U.S. intelligence community that the Afghan government and military would rapidly collapse. Maybe many people in the intel community thought it would happen in a few weeks instead of a few days, but that is not an intelligence failure.

This was a "wishful thinking" failure by the Biden Administration -- they hoped that the collapse of the Afghan government would not occur as quickly as it did, but they were wrong.

I agree it was a "wishful thinking" failure, but it is not limited to the Biden Administration, that responsibility falls on everyone that believe that the Taliban would not move to regain power in Afghanistan.

 

[DaveXA]

Yes, the Taliban wants them to go to their jobs and says there will be no reprisals. I don’t know whether to believe them or not, but if it buys us time to get people out, then that’s a good deal.

Yeah, whatever it takes.

 

[bdb13]

Yes, the Taliban wants them to go to their jobs and says there will be no reprisals. I don’t know whether to believe them or not, but if it buys us time to get people out, then that’s a good deal.

Man if I had been strongly anti-Taliban here recently and was one of those governmental workers I'd be pretty freaking terrified to go back now.

If it all pretty works out somehow, great. I'm just saying, to go from what we were being told through Friday to where we are today and the obvious lack of preparedness by the admin for something akin to this to be situation coming to fruition.. is worthy of the heavy criticism it's receiving.

 

[Kerry Won Ohio]

I agree it was a "wishful thinking" failure, but it is not limited to the Biden Administration, that responsibility falls on everyone that believe that the Taliban would not move to regain power in Afghanistan.

Who believed that? I'm not aware of anyone saying the Taliban would not try to regain power.

 

[bdb13]

I don't think we've see any ISIS style murdering and pillaging at this point. Yes, the Taliban is taking over, but it doesn't seem like they are getting much resistance from most people. Maybe i have just missed the stories of mass beheadings.

I am not saying that the Taliban deserves the benefit of the doubt, but so far it just looks like the Taliban is taking control over the government structures that were already in place, they aren't trying to burn it all to the ground.

I doubt they are going to establish a Malala scholarship for girls or anything, but it seems to me that people's fear of the Taliban is what is causing most of the panic, rather than the actions of the Taliban during their return to power.

Sharia is going to be the law of the land, and while terrible, it isn't something far removed from the will of the people of Afganistan.

Calm before the storm would be my guess.. I'm being serious, outside of this right here, right now is there a reason to believe that there is a kinder, gentler Taliban that's taking over?

 

[MT15]

no, absolutely not, it’s just that only by reading and listening, we thought there would be massacres happening everywhere. That they seem to be more interested in taking over the functions of government right now rather than seeking blind revenge is a good thing. It buys us some time.

any time right now is great for our side.

 

[MT15]

Who believed that? I'm not aware of anyone saying the Taliban would not try to regain power.

Yes, Trump practically guaranteed they would take over.

 

[samiam5211]

Calm before the storm would be my guess.. I'm being serious, outside of this right here, right now is there a reason to believe that there is a kinder, gentler Taliban that's taking over?

No. They are still the same Taliban, and they will be cracking down on women's rights and murdering gay people in no time flat.

The Taliban will implement Sharia law, but i think that is fine with most of the people in Afghanistan.

A government that didn't follow Sharia law in Afghanistan would have been ruling without respect for the will of the majority of it's people.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Who believed that? I'm not aware of anyone saying the Taliban would not try to regain power.

Everyone that has expressed shock that this is happening! Whether their "wishful thinking" based off of the rosy optimism of their favorite politician or they just didn't pay any attention at all and hoped for the best.

 

[bdb13]

Yes, Trump practically guaranteed they would take over.

Yeah... Maybe the deal sped up the process but if we were leaving I think the Taliban's quick takeover was inevitable no matter what, no matter when we decided it was time to go.

 

[MT15]

I sorta resemble this remark. Lol.

 

[Kerry Won Ohio]

Everyone that has expressed shock that this is happening! Whether their "wishful thinking" based off of the rosy optimism of their favorite politician or they just didn't pay any attention at all and hoped for the best.

That's not true. EVERYONE knew that the Taliban would try to regain power. What has surprised people is how quickly it happened.