Why The Republican Right will be Just Fine (1 Viewer)

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    The Other Liberal

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    Forget the fact they control the Supreme Court, most state governments, the House of Representatives, and they make up a sizable chunk of the electorate there are other reasons Conservative Republicans will be fine even with Trump and MAGA.

    They know how to get beyond their base to reach Moderate Independents. These voters are open to persuasion and messaging so the Republicans go after them on wedge issues like urban crime, healthcare reform portrayed as socialized medicine, and reducing LGBTQ Rights issues to bathrooms for transgender youth.

    Secondly, the Democratic base is often divided and demoralized. They often stay home saying it doesn't matter. Even worse they say there's no difference between the two parties. If Bernie Sanders had managed to get the Democratic nomination in 2020 Moderates Democrats would have stayed home. And in 2016 more than a few supporters of Bernie stayed home rather than voting for Hillary Clinton.

    Lastly, MAGA and Conservatives opposed to Trump are still Rightwing. Whatever their differences over Trump these two will always come together against Democrats.

    The Republicans only appear dysfunctional and divided. But there's a method to thei madness. Everything is just fine for them.
     
    Forget the fact they control the Supreme Court, most state governments, the House of Representatives, and they make up a sizable chunk of the electorate there are other reasons Conservative Republicans will be fine even with Trump and MAGA.

    They know how to get beyond their base to reach Moderate Independents. These voters are open to persuasion and messaging so the Republicans go after them on wedge issues like urban crime, healthcare reform portrayed as socialized medicine, and reducing LGBTQ Rights issues to bathrooms for transgender youth.

    Secondly, the Democratic base is often divided and demoralized. They often stay home saying it doesn't matter. Even worse they say there's no difference between the two parties. If Bernie Sanders had managed to get the Democratic nomination in 2020 Moderates Democrats would have stayed home. And in 2016 more than a few supporters of Bernie stayed home rather than voting for Hillary Clinton.

    Lastly, MAGA and Conservatives opposed to Trump are still Rightwing. Whatever their differences over Trump these two will always come together against Democrats.

    The Republicans only appear dysfunctional and divided. But there's a method to thei madness. Everything is just fine for them.
    I do not see the Democratic base as "divided" but many (not all) are "demoralized" by the thought of Biden being President until 2028.
    Regarding your final 2 sentences.
    I don't think Nikki Haley and Donald Trump are wink wink working together with a method to their madness.
    Trump seems like he will secure the nomination but Nikki Haley's attempt to try and stop him is sincere.
     
    I do not see the Democratic base as "divided" but many (not all) are "demoralized" by the thought of Biden being President until 2028.
    Regarding your final 2 sentences.
    I don't think Nikki Haley and Donald Trump are wink wink working together with a method to their madness.
    Trump seems like he will secure the nomination but Nikki Haley's attempt to try and stop him is sincere.
    Haley will kneel to kiss his arse just like Rubio, Graham and Cruz.

    As to the OP. What with their ironclad control of so many state legislatures, gerrymandered over representation in Congress, a 6-3 SCOTUS majority for decades and their own propaganda network, the Right will continue to wield an outsized amount of power for the foreseeable future.
     
    Democrats are dumb. With the Republican Party in total disfunction due to Trump, Dems are missing an opportunity to gain voters. Instead of championing policies and issues that matter to most Americans, they are looking to ban gas stoves. They are forcing the climate change agenda down our throats instead of a more common sense approach (move away from fossil fuels slowly so the green technology can catch up). Then they run Biden out there again. That's not smart.
     
    Democrats are dumb. With the Republican Party in total disfunction due to Trump, Dems are missing an opportunity to gain voters. Instead of championing policies and issues that matter to most Americans, they are looking to ban gas stoves. They are forcing the climate change agenda down our throats instead of a more common sense approach (move away from fossil fuels slowly so the green technology can catch up). Then they run Biden out there again. That's not smart.
    Have you noticed the climate lately? We ARE out of time literally. The petroleum industry KNEW the impact on the climate all the way back to the 1950s - Before I was even born and have suppressed the information for 70 years

    https://www.desmog.com/2024/01/30/f...nsored-climate-science-1954-keeling-api-wspa/
     
    Have you noticed the climate lately? We ARE out of time literally. The petroleum industry KNEW the impact on the climate all the way back to the 1950s - Before I was even born and have suppressed the information for 70 years

    https://www.desmog.com/2024/01/30/f...nsored-climate-science-1954-keeling-api-wspa/
    You might be right, but our economy and way of living will not go green overnight. Trying to make up for 50 years of inaction in a few years simply will not work. We will never be free of fossil fuels in America. That's a fact.

    Look around your office/room. If it's not wood, glass, or metal, it came from petroleum. All of that stuff is not going away no matter how much folks cry about the environment or climate change.
     
    You might be right, but our economy and way of living will not go green overnight. Trying to make up for 50 years of inaction in a few years simply will not work. We will never be free of fossil fuels in America. That's a fact.

    Look around your office/room. If it's not wood, glass, or metal, it came from petroleum. All of that stuff is not going away no matter how much folks cry about the environment or climate change.

    Well we may not WANT to but we maybe FORCED to. Try argueing with the climate and tell it not to get worse because we need more time to change. I doubt it works
     
    You might be right, but our economy and way of living will not go green overnight. Trying to make up for 50 years of inaction in a few years simply will not work. We will never be free of fossil fuels in America. That's a fact.

    Look around your office/room. If it's not wood, glass, or metal, it came from petroleum. All of that stuff is not going away no matter how much folks cry about the environment or climate change.
    Ok.

    First, we are adults and can focus on more than one thing.

    Second, I think the problem here is what is being communicated. Like the gas stove myth you pointed out. At no point did any Dem of stature propose that gas stoves be banned, that didn't happen.

    Thirdly, I gathered (perhaps incorrectly) that you are under the impression that the economy wasn't doing well. If I am correct in that assumption, you couldn't be more incorrect. We are having arguably the best economic period in the history of the United States - which would mean the greatest economy in the world's history.

    And finally, you were correct about petroleum. About 10 years ago. Most cheap plastics aren't patroleum based - they are ethanol (corn) based now. And it isn't because they are more environmentally safer. It's because they are cheaper. I have developed and built dozens of packaging and distribution centers in my career, btw. The only people interested in petroleum's continued use are those in its industry. Period. Really, it's not only dirty, it's really inefficient.

    So no, petroleum isn't here forever. It won't even survive my lifetime and I'm 47.
     
    Well we may not WANT to but we maybe FORCED to. Try argueing with the climate and tell it not to get worse because we need more time to change. I doubt it works
    Crashing the economy to attempt to change something that other countries are not concerned about is not the smartest move, either. Especially if we are "beyond the point of no return" like some scholars think.
     
    Ok.

    First, we are adults and can focus on more than one thing.

    Second, I think the problem here is what is being communicated. Like the gas stove myth you pointed out. At no point did any Dem of stature propose that gas stoves be banned, that didn't happen.

    Thirdly, I gathered (perhaps incorrectly) that you are under the impression that the economy wasn't doing well. If I am correct in that assumption, you couldn't be more incorrect. We are having arguably the best economic period in the history of the United States - which would mean the greatest economy in the world's history.

    And finally, you were correct about petroleum. About 10 years ago. Most cheap plastics aren't patroleum based - they are ethanol (corn) based now. And it isn't because they are more environmentally safer. It's because they are cheaper. I have developed and built dozens of packaging and distribution centers in my career, btw. The only people interested in petroleum's continued use are those in its industry. Period. Really, it's not only dirty, it's really inefficient.

    So no, petroleum isn't here forever. It won't even survive my lifetime and I'm 47.
    I used the gas stove thing as an example of the idiotic thinking of the left. Banning gas stoves would not be well received throughout the nation, I can assure you. Dems should be focusing on all of the positive momentum they have to go along with the train wreck that the Republican Party is today to gain ground. I personally think they are wasting an opportunity to strengthen their base.

    Never said anything about the economy not doing well. My assertation of moving too fast to green energy would have a negative impact on the economy. Fossil fuels are everywhere and cheap. Everything green is less available and more expensive. That was the angle I was referring to about the economy.

    It's an internet message board so bets don't count, but I would bet my entire net worth petroleum will still be a huge part of American life 50 years from now (hopefully you live that long). It simply isn't going anywhere and there's no REAL data to prove otherwise. Oh, there isn't enough corn in the world to satisfy the thirst for petroleum products the world uses on a daily basis. Oil is here to stay. Simple fact.
     
    Most cheap plastics aren't patroleum based - they are ethanol (corn) based now. And it isn't because they are more environmentally safer. It's because they are cheaper.
    I find it hard to believe that corn based plastics are cheaper to produce than petroleum plastics unless there are government subsides involved. It doesn't add up.
     
    Look up how much packaging Amazon is responsible for and see how much they use petroleum based. Building materials too. It is their initiative to be carbon neutral by 2040. Nissan - parent company - has stated they will t
    be carbon neutral by 2040. Nissan.

    Amazon is an economic superpower globally who would have the 8th largest economy if they were a country, and 1 million employees. This is changing everything at a meteoric pace.
     
    Second, I think the problem here is what is being communicated. Like the gas stove myth you pointed out. At no point did any Dem of stature propose that gas stoves be banned, that didn't happen.

    I think NY is in the process of banning gas stoves.
    People, incorrectly I might add, think "what is the harm?"
    well gas stoves are a health hazard + contribute to climate change.

    "The Environmental Protection Agency regulates outdoor NO2 emissions, setting standards for their safe exposure limit. But there are no similar standards for indoor exposure. Nevertheless, studies dating back decades have shown harmful effects from the NO2 in gas cooking stoves."

    "It is also well-established that the health effects of pollution disproportionately hit vulnerable populations, including children and the elderly, as well as low-income households and communities of color. Affirming a 1992 summary study on childhood respiratory illnesses, a 2013 peer-reviewed summary report in the International Journal of Epidemiology found that children living in a home with a gas stove have a 42 percent increased risk of experiencing asthma symptoms.


    Emerging research also shows that the gas delivered to stoves contains air toxins and chemicals such as benzene, a known carcinogen with no safe exposure level."
    ---

    Sure, maybe(?) not as bad as diesel engine smog or whatever, but only people who have this libertarian "I want to be allowed to do whatever I want without the gov't interfering' shirt is how/why we got here in the first place. Because left to their own decisions, they can't behave.
    I'm sure a lot of people moaned and complained about seat belts.
    I'm old enough to remember smoking and non-smoking sections in restaurants - I bet these same people would moan and complain about that being taken away from them as well.
    Or complaining about incandescent bulbs no longer being sold
    or toilets that use less water (but according to one person, you must then flush 3,4,5 TIMES!!)

    and on, and on, and on it goes
     
    Forget the fact they control the Supreme Court, most state governments, the House of Representatives, and they make up a sizable chunk of the electorate there are other reasons Conservative Republicans will be fine even with Trump and MAGA.

    They know how to get beyond their base to reach Moderate Independents. These voters are open to persuasion and messaging so the Republicans go after them on wedge issues like urban crime, healthcare reform portrayed as socialized medicine, and reducing LGBTQ Rights issues to bathrooms for transgender youth.

    Secondly, the Democratic base is often divided and demoralized. They often stay home saying it doesn't matter. Even worse they say there's no difference between the two parties. If Bernie Sanders had managed to get the Democratic nomination in 2020 Moderates Democrats would have stayed home. And in 2016 more than a few supporters of Bernie stayed home rather than voting for Hillary Clinton.

    Lastly, MAGA and Conservatives opposed to Trump are still Rightwing. Whatever their differences over Trump these two will always come together against Democrats.

    The Republicans only appear dysfunctional and divided. But there's a method to thei madness. Everything is just fine for them.


    You forget the one issue that is extremely important to women. Women are the majority voters in the US.


    That is choice, freedom, liberty and body autonomy.

    It used to be safe for some women to vote for anti choice politicians. Roe V. Wade made their crazy beliefs impossible to implement.

    Now, Roe V. Wade is gone and women are suffering all over the nation from the sadistic anti choice laws the republicans have passed. Some states are even taking women's right to freedom of travel within our nation.

    That one issue has turned millions of women away from the republicans they used to vote for. They will either vote third party or democratic.

    The overwhelming vast majority of women are totally pissed off at trump, the Supreme Court and anti choice politicians. That overwhelming vast majority of women are not going to vote for an anti choice politician.

    Sure the republicans will still be around but I won't be surprised of it becomes very hard for them to get elected even in gerrymandered states.

    Women are the reason why trump and republicans lost 2018, 2020, 2022 and 2023. Women are coming for republicans in 2024 and it's not going to end well for many of them.
     
    You might be right, but our economy and way of living will not go green overnight. Trying to make up for 50 years of inaction in a few years simply will not work. We will never be free of fossil fuels in America. That's a fact.

    Look around your office/room. If it's not wood, glass, or metal, it came from petroleum. All of that stuff is not going away no matter how much folks cry about the environment or climate change.


    We will never stop using fossil fuel but we can stop using it for energy and in our vehicles.

    Take a look at Washington state. They started decreasing fossil fuel for energy in the 90s when they started building one of the largest wind farms in the nation.

    When that wind farm came on line it generated more electricity than what the existing grid could handle. So they built a new one for all that new energy.

    Washington also has built solar farms.

    The only fossil fuel Washington now uses is natural gas. Primarily for heating and cooking in homes and buildings.

    They also use water and have a small nuclear facility for some ranchers in the very southeast corner of the state.

    They were able to start closing down coal fire plants in the early 2000s. Now, there's just one left and it's partially shutdown and will be completely shutdown in 2025.

    Washington was able to stop smogging cars in 2019 because the air had gotten so much cleaner.

    Washington state is 99% off coal fire plants and it didn't take long to do. The one big obstacle was removed when Washington gave control of the government and state congress to democrats in the early 2000s and have made sure that republicans couldn't stop the progress of converting to a green economy and state.

    Hawaii is also off coal for electricity. They achieved that this year.

    It can be done. All the other states need to do is follow Washington's lead.
     
    Forget the fact they control the Supreme Court, most state governments, the House of Representatives, and they make up a sizable chunk of the electorate there are other reasons Conservative Republicans will be fine even with Trump and MAGA.

    They know how to get beyond their base to reach Moderate Independents. These voters are open to persuasion and messaging so the Republicans go after them on wedge issues like urban crime, healthcare reform portrayed as socialized medicine, and reducing LGBTQ Rights issues to bathrooms for transgender youth.

    Secondly, the Democratic base is often divided and demoralized. They often stay home saying it doesn't matter. Even worse they say there's no difference between the two parties. If Bernie Sanders had managed to get the Democratic nomination in 2020 Moderates Democrats would have stayed home. And in 2016 more than a few supporters of Bernie stayed home rather than voting for Hillary Clinton.

    Lastly, MAGA and Conservatives opposed to Trump are still Rightwing. Whatever their differences over Trump these two will always come together against Democrats.

    The Republicans only appear dysfunctional and divided. But there's a method to thei madness. Everything is just fine for them.

    Biden beat Trump by 9 points on independent vote in 2020 - and that was before Trump led an insurrection, absconded with boxes of classified material, was found liable for sexual assault, and arraigned four different times on 91 felony charges.

    Given the state of the economy, there is very little reason to think Trump will improve his showing on independents.

    In the 2022 midterms, on the whole, democrats outperformed GOP candidates in the independent vote by 13 percent! This idea that there is latent support for GOP governing among “moderate independents” is not borne out by analysis.

    And I think the problem is that independents were typically keen to support Republican efforts on issues like tax, regulation, and foreign policy. But today’s GOP is far more focused on culture war, manufactured grievance, and has inextricably married itself to a reprehensible leader. Republicans don’t even bother with general governance/ policy anymore - whether in Washington or in the state houses, they’re too busy making performative gestures about woke and retribution. All while riding this new wave of anti-intellectualism and anti-institutionalism.

    That is not appealing to independents. It’s not governance.



     

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