Why is Columbus Day still a thing? (1 Viewer)

[SystemShock]

Why is Cristoforo Colombo still celebrated?
He was a flaming racist and slave trader who didn't discover shirt. What's there to celebrate?

 

[Paul]

Those who control the past control the future. That is the basis for the RW screaming into the whirlwind about cancel culture.

The communists in Russia tried to cancel Christianity and even named Saint Petersburg Leningrad. That technique failed very badly.
Going after Columbus is ineffective virtue signaling.

 

[bird]

The communists in Russia tried to cancel Christianity and even named Saint Petersburg Leningrad. That technique failed very badly.
Going after Columbus is ineffective virtue signaling.

Won’t argue that. And it is pointless. As well as somewhat inaccurate. Marx even stated that Russia was not the place to try and start Socialism/Commnunism. Btw, Marx railed against religion as a tool/accomplice in keeping the worker under the boot of what he called capital. Naturally, it is far more complex than that.

Btw, your phrasing is very telling. “Going after”? Interesting phrase, that. Much like claims of going after the heritage of the Confederacy which couldn’t outlast Nirvana. The phrase underscores the inherent fear in the challenge to control.

 

[bird]

Nigerians, Jamaicans, East Asians, Cubans, etc

Define successful and how the success of individuals relates to being a “successful minority”.

 

[Paul]

Why is Cristoforo Colombo still celebrated?
He was a flaming racist and slave trader who didn't discover shirt. What's there to celebrate?

Same reason we celebrate Santa Claus. It is a "feel good" thing. Sometimes it is difficult to separate myth and legend from reality. Most nations need symbols of unity and up until this era Columbus was a symbol of unity among the different factions of European settlers.

 

[Paul]

Define successful and how the success of individuals relates to being a “successful minority”.

Are you looking for a point to make an argument against success? By the way I forgot to add immigrants from India, Pakistan, Iran, etc.

I would define success as follows:

In the US, Nigerians are the most highly educated of all groups, with 61 per cent holding at least a bachelors degree compared with 31 per cent of the total foreign-born population and 32 per cent of the US-born population, according to 2017 data from the Migration Policy Institute. More than half of Nigerian immigrants (54 per cent) were most likely to occupy management positions, compared with 32 per cent of the total foreign-born population and 39 per cent of the US-born population.

What makes Nigerians in diaspora so successful

Highly-educated achievers in music to medicine draw on parental ambition and resilience fuelled by lack of opportunity at home

www.ft.com

Are Indian immigrants to the US successful?​

The answer is clearly “yes” no matter which benchmark we use. More than 75 percent of current first-generation Indian-Americans have immigrated to the United States since the 1990s. They make up only about 1 percent of the US population (3.9 million as of 2017) but have disproportionate numbers of professionals such as physicians, corporate executives, and successful entrepreneurs. Their median annual household income is $100,000, which is significantly higher than other immigrant groups or the US population as a whole.

Why Do Indians Succeed More in the U.S. Than in India?

The answer lies in three levels of selection in immigration.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[Paul]

Won’t argue that. And it is pointless. As well as somewhat inaccurate. Marx even stated that Russia was not the place to try and start Socialism/Commnunism. Btw, Marx railed against religion as a tool/accomplice in keeping the worker under the boot of what he called capital. Naturally, it is far more complex than that.

Marx was 100% correct on his analysis of capitalism and how it preserves inequality. The message of Marx is always extremely compelling to young people in every generation. There is nothing wrong with the diagnosis provided by Marx. The diagnosis is correct, but the treatment is much worse than the illness; so far socialism has not worked. The socialist always say "that was not real socialism". That is a very lame excuse if you ask me.

Btw, your phrasing is very telling. “Going after”? Interesting phrase, that. Much like claims of going after the heritage of the Confederacy which couldn’t outlast Nirvana. The phrase underscores the inherent fear in the challenge to control.

Going after statues of confederate generals that were erected just the other day is legit. Furthermore, these generals were fighting to preserve slavery. Going after a man that died more than five centuries ago and more than a 100 years before 1619 makes no sense to me. In any event I get frustrated because the leaders of this era do not have better ideas on how to elevate the socioeconomic status on those at the bottom. All they need to do is ask a Nigerian or a Indian immigrant.

 

[SystemShock]

Same reason we celebrate Santa Claus.

I didn't know Colombo brought toys to boys and girls who've been good on the 2nd Monday of October.

 

[SystemShock]

Except Cinco De Mayo isn't a Federal Holiday, and it just started out as a way to promote and sell liquor and beer. Cinco de mayo wasn't started to make American idiots not to hate Mexican immigrants. Its just another reason to go to a Mexican restaurant and drink Corona's. Cinco De Mayo isn't a holiday just as Columbus day shouldn't be a holiday.

It's not even a holiday in MX

 

[bird]

Are you looking for a point to make an argument against success? By the way I forgot to add immigrants from India, Pakistan, Iran, etc.

I would define success as follows:

In the US, Nigerians are the most highly educated of all groups, with 61 per cent holding at least a bachelors degree compared with 31 per cent of the total foreign-born population and 32 per cent of the US-born population, according to 2017 data from the Migration Policy Institute. More than half of Nigerian immigrants (54 per cent) were most likely to occupy management positions, compared with 32 per cent of the total foreign-born population and 39 per cent of the US-born population.

What makes Nigerians in diaspora so successful

Highly-educated achievers in music to medicine draw on parental ambition and resilience fuelled by lack of opportunity at home

www.ft.com

Are Indian immigrants to the US successful?​

The answer is clearly “yes” no matter which benchmark we use. More than 75 percent of current first-generation Indian-Americans have immigrated to the United States since the 1990s. They make up only about 1 percent of the US population (3.9 million as of 2017) but have disproportionate numbers of professionals such as physicians, corporate executives, and successful entrepreneurs. Their median annual household income is $100,000, which is significantly higher than other immigrant groups or the US population as a whole.

Why Do Indians Succeed More in the U.S. Than in India?

The answer lies in three levels of selection in immigration.

www.psychologytoday.com

A little more detail on Nigerian immigrants.

African immigrants adapt well

Study compares incorporation of Nigerians, Somalis

news.ku.edu

Like everything it is a little more complex.

 

[bird]

Marx was 100% correct on his analysis of capitalism and how it preserves inequality. The message of Marx is always extremely compelling to young people in every generation. There is nothing wrong with the diagnosis provided by Marx. The diagnosis is correct, but the treatment is much worse than the illness; so far socialism has not worked. The socialist always say "that was not real socialism". That is a very lame excuse if you ask me.

Going after statues of confederate generals that were erected just the other day is legit. Furthermore, these generals were fighting to preserve slavery. Going after a man that died more than five centuries ago and more than a 100 years before 1619 makes no sense to me. In any event I get frustrated because the leaders of this era do not have better ideas on how to elevate the socioeconomic status on those at the bottom. All they need to do is ask a Nigerian or a Indian immigrant.

Or as the KU link I posted noted they could ask a Somalian. Things aren’t black and white (absolutely no joke intended).

As for Columbus? Much like the blather from right wing politicians putting out scapegoats for the MAGAts it is noise. But you know what? Statues for idiots like Columbus fall out of favor. Too bad, so sad. The pull yourself up by the bootstraps bullschlitz needs to go away. It wasn’t, isn’t and never will be about that.

It is interesting to note that the bleating about socialism is aimed at nothing that is socialism. Democratic socialism, basically building social safety nets, is not the same as ownership of production by the state. At the same time there are situations where the private sector fails and fails spectacularly. The Texas grid comes to mind, the “too big to fail” FIRE sector does as well.

 

[Paul]

Or as the KU link I posted noted they could ask a Somalian. Things aren’t black and white (absolutely no joke intended).

As for Columbus? Much like the blather from right wing politicians putting out scapegoats for the MAGAts it is noise. But you know what? Statues for idiots like Columbus fall out of favor. Too bad, so sad. The pull yourself up by the bootstraps bullschlitz needs to go away. It wasn’t, isn’t and never will be about that.

It is interesting to note that the bleating about socialism is aimed at nothing that is socialism. Democratic socialism, basically building social safety nets, is not the same as ownership of production by the state. At the same time there are situations where the private sector fails and fails spectacularly. The Texas grid comes to mind, the “too big to fail” FIRE sector does as well.

Great post! I cannot find a disagreement. A good balance between capitalism and a generous social net is fine by me.

 

[Optimus Prime]

A statue of divisive European explorer Christopher Columbus that was on prominent display in Mexico City will be replaced with a figure of an Indigenous woman, the city’s mayor said this weekend, as the country becomes the latest to reckon with the public commemoration of its past.


The looming Columbus figure had stood tall on the Paseo de la Reforma boulevard for over 100 years, but on Sunday the mayor of the capital city, Claudia Sheinbaum, said it was time for a change of landscape and to make way for a monument that delivers “social justice.”

“We are announcing that the Columbus roundabout will very soon, in October, become a great recognition of the 500 years of resistance of the Indigenous women of our country,” Sheinbaum said. “We owe it to them.”……..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/06/christopher-columbus-statue-mexico/

 

[Paul]

A statue of divisive European explorer Christopher Columbus that was on prominent display in Mexico City will be replaced with a figure of an Indigenous woman, the city’s mayor said this weekend, as the country becomes the latest to reckon with the public commemoration of its past.


The looming Columbus figure had stood tall on the Paseo de la Reforma boulevard for over 100 years, but on Sunday the mayor of the capital city, Claudia Sheinbaum, said it was time for a change of landscape and to make way for a monument that delivers “social justice.”

“We are announcing that the Columbus roundabout will very soon, in October, become a great recognition of the 500 years of resistance of the Indigenous women of our country,” Sheinbaum said. “We owe it to them.”……..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/06/christopher-columbus-statue-mexico/

Virtue signaling knows no limit.

Without the Spanish conquest México would not exist. It would be a collection of indigenous groups assuming no other European power conquered the land. The same applies to America. Without the arrival of the Europeans America would be a collection of indigenous tribes. Furthermore, there would have been no importation of slaves. México and America would be incredibly different. They would be classified as "uncontacted people".

Uncontacted peoples are communities or groups of indigenous peoples living without sustained contact to neighbouring communities and the world community, and includes "indigenous peoples in voluntary isolation" In 2013 there were thought to be roughly 100 uncontacted tribes worldwide, half of whom live in the Amazon rainforest. WIKI

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

So the world is better off that Europeans murdered and slaughtered millions of indegnious people in North and South America?

 

[Paul]

So the world is better off that Europeans murdered and slaughtered millions of indegnious people in North and South America?

That is an excellent question. There are a few tribes in the Amazonian forest with virtually no contact with Europeans. I have to assume they are living a happier bucolic life.

Seriously, the Europeans were ruthless, but not all things Western are bad. I am not condoning the conquering of America. However, nowadays democracies based European values are the most liberal and tolerant places in the world. That is why everybody wants to migrate to the West,

 

[Optimus Prime]

Newark’s Mayor Ras Baraka, community leaders and celebrities including the musician and actor Queen Latifah and writer Pia Wilson led celebrations of a new monument to the abolitionist Harriet Tubman this week. The ceremony was a historic final step in replacing a Christopher Columbus statue that was removed from a square in the New Jersey city following the murder of George Floyd in 2020.

Gone is an ode to Columbus, who engaged in the kidnapping, enslavement and killing of Indigenous people in the Caribbean. Instead is now a depiction of Tubman, a legendary racial justice activist. Known as the “Moses of her people”, Tubman, who escaped slavery herself, helped other enslaved people gain their freedom amid great danger, acting as what was known as a conductor of the Underground Railroad during the civil war.

The new Tubman monument in Newark, Shadow of a Face, designed by the architect Nina Cooke John, is installed at a park that had been known as Washington Park since the 1790s……

Newark unveils Harriet Tubman memorial to replace Columbus statue

Queen Latifah and Pia Wilson take part in celebration of abolitionist in New Jersey city

www.theguardian.com

 

[Echo]

Christopher Columbus is a very important historical figure. He crossed the Atlantic Ocean 4 times which allowed European colonization of the Americas. He also made contact with the Caribbean as well as Central and South America. He's possibly the most important explorer in human history. He without a doubt deserves to be celebrated and honored.

 

[bird]

Christopher Columbus is a very important historical figure. He crossed the Atlantic Ocean 4 times which allowed European colonization of the Americas. He also made contact with the Caribbean as well as Central and South America. He's possibly the most important explorer in human history. He without a doubt deserves to be celebrated and honored.

Um, no. I don’t celebrate slavers.