Virginia teacher sues school after being fired for not using transgender student's pronouns... (1 Viewer)

[crosswatt]

A Virginia high school teacher who was fired for refusing to use a transgender student's preferred pronouns has filed a lawsuit against school officials and the board.
Peter Vlaming, who was a French teacher at West Point High School, said he was fired because he would not use pronouns such as "him" and "his" to refer to a female student who was transitioning to male.

According to the suit filed Monday in King William County, using the male pronouns would have "violated" Vlaming's "conscience" and went against his religious beliefs, so he called the student by his preferred name during class and avoided using pronouns altogether.

Virginia teacher sues school after being fired for not using transgender student's pronouns

Peter Vlaming, who taught French, was fired from West Point High School in December 2018. He said using the preferred pronouns would violate his religious beliefs.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[SystemShock]

I understand what you're asking. Let me answer with another question.

If the parents of the child accept and approve of the gender preference of their child, what right does a public school teacher have to ignore and deny the wishes of that child and their parents?

I don't think you understood what I asked, since your question doesn't answer my question at all.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I don't think you understood what I asked, since your question doesn't answer my question at all.

Doesn't your question imply that a child shouldn't be allowed to make a decision about their gender identity, because they aren't emotionally mature enough to make a choice like that?

 

[SystemShock]

Doesn't your question imply that a child shouldn't be allowed to make a decision about their gender identity, because they aren't emotionally mature enough to make a choice like that?

My question asks the question, if a child isn't fully developed emotionally, what does that say about letting a child make emotionally charged decisions?

 

[LA - L.A.]

My question asks the question, if a child isn't fully developed emotionally, what does that say about letting a child make emotionally charged decisions?

Which is exactly what I understood you to be getting at. My answer to that was another question

Don't we trust parents to guide and supervise their children? If the parents of a child accept and approve of their child's gender identity, what right does a public school teacher or anyone else have to question, ignore or deny that child's preference?

 

[SystemShock]

Which is exactly what I understood you to be getting at. My answer to that was another question. Don't we trust parents to guide and supervise their children? If the parents of a child accept and approve of their child's gender identity, what right does a public school teacher or anyone else have to ingore or deny that child's preference?

Again, you didn't answer the question. You just asked another question that has nothing to do with what I asked.

Put gender aside. Think of any other decision a kid/teenager could make based on emotion: tattooing a boyfriend's name across the forehead, splitting one's tongue, marrying a 40 year old, sleeping with the teacher because they are in love with the teacher, titanium horn implants... anything your average kid/teenager will think it is the end of the world if they don't do.

 

[Ayo]

My question asks the question, if a child isn't fully developed emotionally, what does that say about letting a child make emotionally charged decisions?

Again, you didn't answer the question. You just asked another question that has nothing to do with what I asked.

Put gender aside. Think of any other decision a kid/teenager could make based on emotion: tattooing a boyfriend's name across the forehead, splitting one's tongue, marrying a 40 year old, sleeping with the teacher because they are in love with the teacher, titanium horn implants... anything your average kid/teenager will think it is the end of the world if they don't do.

adults do these things all the time, too

emotionally immature? Yep.
Face tattoo? Yep.
Tongue splitting? Yep.
Sleeping with a professor? Yep.

Now, if you asked me if each of those applied to me, we could play Three Truths, One Lie

 

[LA - L.A.]

Again, you didn't answer the question. You just asked another question that has nothing to do with what I asked.

Put gender aside. Think of any other decision a kid/teenager could make based on emotion: tattooing a boyfriend's name across the forehead, splitting one's tongue, marrying a 40 year old, sleeping with the teacher because they are in love with the teacher, titanium horn implants... anything your average kid/teenager will think it is the end of the world if they don't do.

I think my answer is pretty clear. To make it as clear as possible, it says the we trust parents to guide, supervise and do what's best for their child. So if a parent accepts and approves a child's gender identity, then no one else has the right to question, deny or ignore the child's gender preference.

The parents of the child in this case accept and approve of their child's gender identity, so the public school teacher doesn't have any right to question, deny or ignore the child's preferences.

Here's the thing I don't think people consider. If you don't trust a child to make a gender choice, then you shouldn't be okay with a child making any gender choice. Just like a "biological" male that chose to be a female as a child could regret their decision later in life, so can a "biological" male who chose to stay a male regret that decision later in life. It's not hypothetical. I know a woman who was born a "biological" male that transition to female at 57 years old. She said that she knew all her life she was female and regrets that she spent so much of her life as a male.

Everyone of us regrets things about every stage of our lives, including childhood and there's no taking any of it back.

Either one accepts and respects who people say they are and want to be, or they don't. If one doesn't accept and respect other people's right of self identity, then they need to be honest with themselves and own it, instead of trying to fault the other person.

 

[SystemShock]

adults do these things all the time, too

Absolutely. But we are adults.

 

[SystemShock]

I think my answer is pretty clear. To make it as clear as possible, it says the we trust parents to guide, supervise and do what's best for their child.

So anti-vaxxers who don't vaccinate their kids, Jehovah's Witnesses who refuse medical treatment for their kids, parents who let their children smoke even before they are teens, arrange marriages or/and get them married when they are children, feed them nothing but junk food, let their 13 year old daughters marry 40 year old men... you trust them to do what's best for their child? Or is it only when it comes to gender?

Here's the thing I don't think people consider. If you don't trust a child to make a gender choice, then you shouldn't be okay with a child making any gender choice.

People don't consider that, because it's asinine. That's pretty much the norm.

Besides, I didn't choose to be born with testicles, yet I was, and I can't see me in any other way. And so does the overwhelming majority of people born with testicles.

Either one accepts and respects who people say they are and want to be, or they don't. If one doesn't accept and respect other people's right of self identity, then they need to be honest with themselves and own it, instead of trying to fault the other person.

Who's not owning what?

 

[Beach Friends]

Does anyone know the percentage of people who identify as trans and later determine that they are not, but rather gay?

 

[Lazybones]

I think parents are well within their rights to approve of and accept the preferred gender identity of their child. I think public school teachers should respect that right of the parents and the child.

A person either believes parents are within their rights to approve of and accept the preferred gender identity of their child, or they don't.

Which one do you believe?

I think parents who would let their children or lead their children (I see it frequently in the dance world) to this type of decision are going to ultimately be held accountable. 100% think it is wrong.