US/Israel and Iran- (7 Viewers)

[efil4]

Thought we should start thread here - over weekend, US carried out strikes against Houthi elements in Yemen in retaliation for their actions in Red Sea.



Houthi leader issued this statement- no US ships in Red Sea


Houthis then attempted to strike US Carrier group

This morning Trump took to Truth Social:



So any missile/shot fired from Houthi elements in Yemen will be considered coming from Iran. Obviously this is wrought with problems, but we know Houthis will respond and continue attacks.

So then what does this mean for Iran? Lots to unpack, but seems to me that the NO WAR POTUS is hell bent on getting into yet ANOTHER conflict in the ME. He is backing himself into a corner with statements and we could find ourselves embroiled in ME conflict again.

 

[Huntn]

My take is Vance is trying to convince us the US Government is not putting a plan into action that has the goal of taking out the Supreme Leader. Whereas the Trump statement is him giving his opinion that if the current Iranian regime continues to make its country suffer, then likely the people of Iran will bring about change from within. So imo it is not a contradiction. Yet I am skeptical that Vance is sincere. We might say one thing and do another.

Actually the plan by Vance is to remove Supreme leader before Congress can actually impeach him, by initiating the 25th Amendment, and installing himself.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Actually the plan by Vance is to remove Supreme leader before Congress can actually impeach him, by initiating the 25th Amendment, and installing himself.

That was the plan, but I think Vance and Thiel, the real power broker behind Vance, have learned that they were arrogant to think they could oust the cult leader and keep the cult. Musk found that out the hard way too. As the cult leader goes, so goes the cult. That's the socio-phsycho dynamics of cults. If a political leader wants a cult following like Trump has, they will have to build it themselves. There are some that can do it, but they will have to start from scratch and it's going to be a while before they will be able to sucker a significant number of people into joining it.

 

[Dragon]

That was the plan, but I think Vance and Thiel, the real power broker behind Vance, have learned that they were arrogant to think they could oust the cult leader and keep the cult. Musk found that out the hard way too. As the cult leader goes, so goes the cult. That's the socio-phsycho dynamics of cults. If a political leader wants a cult following like Trump has, they will have to build it themselves. There are some that can do it, but they will have to start from scratch and it's going to be a while before they will be able to sucker a significant number of people into joining it.

And Vance has the personality of a wet towel. He could never become a cult leader

 

[RobF]

If that text is legitimate and not faked, then I agree that Rutte's time with NATO needs to end.

Apparently it was confirmed as real.

I assumed they're doing the thing where they echo the style of the person they're talking to back at them by way of pandering to them. Which, when the style is "dumb idiot", comes across as embarrassing and patronising and would probably only work on a dumb idiot.

I do wonder how much time they spent getting the tone right (i.e very specifically wrong). "Is this dumb enough? I'm not sure it's dumb enough yet." "Maybe put BIG all in caps? That's pretty dumb." "Perfect!"

Or maybe they used ChatGPT. I deliberately don't use it much, but rewriting text in a different style is one thing it can actually do reasonably well. For fun (I'm sitting here waiting for older child to go to sleep), I gave it the text, and told it to, literally, "rewrite it for an intelligent audience":

Mr. President,​

Congratulations on your recent action in Iran. It was a bold and consequential decision—one that few would have undertaken—and it has had a clear impact on regional and global security.​

You are also on the verge of another significant achievement this evening in The Hague. Securing agreement on the 5 percent commitment was no small task, and your leadership was instrumental in making it happen.​

This is a pivotal moment—not just for the United States, but for Europe and the broader international community. You're accomplishing what few American presidents have managed in decades, and the implications will be lasting.​

Europe is now stepping up in a meaningful way, and much of the credit belongs to you.​

Wishing you safe travels, and I look forward to seeing you at His Majesty’s dinner.​

That seems more normal, right? Still heavy on the excess flattery, but a more normal tone.

Then I told it to dumb it down ("Now make it dumber. Like really dumb. No, even dumber."):

Hi Donald,​

Wow!!! You did the Iran thing!!! Super brave!!! Now bad guys are scared and we are safe!!! Yay!!!​

Also, the 5 percent thing? You did it!!! Everyone said “yes”!!! So awesome!!!​

This is HUGE!!! America wins!!! Europe pays!!! You are the BEST!!! No other president did this!!!​

Have a nice flight!!! See you at the fancy king dinner!!! ​

Ok, that is a bit dumber than the original text, but it's essentially the same tone and might have been even more effective...

 

[MT15]

NATO surely cannot keep someone who would do that can they? It’s not just embarrassing, but he is now viewed as weak and contemptible by Trump for bowing and scraping like that.

 

[Dragon]

NATO surely cannot keep someone who would do that can they? It’s not just embarrassing, but he is now viewed as weak and contemptible by Trump for bowing and scraping like that.

I've looked into how he's been portrayed in European media. I wasn't very familiar with him as a person, but several top European politicians have referred to him as the "Trump whisperer" — credited for his ability to calm things down when Trump acts like a petulant child. It seems clear that what he's doing now is playing Trump, just as he has on multiple occasions before. The NATO summit in 2018 was specifically mentioned as a key example of this dynamic.

What some Americans might interpret as weakness or submissiveness is viewed very differently in Europe. Trump, on the other hand, is widely seen as insecure and easily manipulated. If all it takes to win him over is a bit of personal flattery, then he's not just an easy mark for seasoned European diplomats—but also for authoritarian leaders like Putin and Xi. That’s not strength; that’s vulnerability on a global stage. I guess that in this aspect the European and the American culture differs greatly.

Trump had once again threatened that the U.S. would leave Nato if the other NATO members didn’t start spending more on their defense budgets. The countries were expected to reach the golden two percent of their GDP to satisfy the American president — a point Trump repeatedly emphasized during his presidency from 2017 to 2021.

French President Emmanuel Macron and then-German Chancellor Angela Merkel expressed their regrets, explaining that a country can't just raise its defense budget overnight.

That message wasn’t exactly to Donald Trump’s liking. But Mark Rutte had reportedly read the situation: he pointed out that NATO countries' defense budgets were already on the rise — and then gave Donald Trump credit for making it happen. The next day, Trump met with the press and declared the summit a success.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

NATO surely cannot keep someone who would do that can they? It’s not just embarrassing, but he is now viewed as weak and contemptible by Trump for bowing and scraping like that.

If the leadership of NATO countries pre-approved it, then nothing will happen. If they didn't, then he'll at the very least have a lot of explaining to do. I think he probably got pre-approval.

 

[efil4]

I've looked into how he's been portrayed in European media. I wasn't very familiar with him as a person, but several top European politicians have referred to him as the "Trump whisperer" — credited for his ability to calm things down when Trump acts like a petulant child. It seems clear that what he's doing now is playing Trump, just as he has on multiple occasions before. The NATO summit in 2018 was specifically mentioned as a key example of this dynamic.

What some Americans might interpret as weakness or submissiveness is viewed very differently in Europe. Trump, on the other hand, is widely seen as insecure and easily manipulated. If all it takes to win him over is a bit of personal flattery, then he's not just an easy mark for seasoned European diplomats—but also for authoritarian leaders like Putin and Xi. That’s not strength; that’s vulnerability on a global stage. I guess that in this aspect the European and the American culture differs greatly.

Bingo. Which is why I posted. Rutte understands now. Standing firm and speaking with authority to Trump, who thinks he is far superior only puts him off.

Whereas something like this will draw Trump in. He won't even know he getting played, even after many tell him he is. He loves the slobber more than anything.

So NATO needs assurances, coming off several months of Trump et Al (Hegseth) basically dismissing US role in NATO, giving the impression US will not respond. NaTO needs assurance and no better way to get it even if you have to cowtoe for a paragraph or three.

NATO leaders know only 3 more years of this buffoon. Do what you need to secure agreements and assurances with the knowledge that 2028 will circle back to US maintaining a vital role in NATO.

 

[Dragon]

Bingo. Which is why I posted. Rutte understands now. Standing firm and speaking with authority to Trump, who thinks he is far superior only puts him off.

Whereas something like this will draw Trump in. He won't even know he getting played, even after many tell him he is. He loves the slobber more than anything.

So NATO needs assurances, coming off several months of Trump et Al (Hegseth) basically dismissing US role in NATO, giving the impression US will not respond. NaTO needs assurance and no better way to get it even if you have to cowtoe for a paragraph or three.

NATO leaders know only 3 more years of this buffoon. Do what you need to secure agreements and assurances with the knowledge that 2028 will circle back to US maintaining a vital role in NATO.

And Europe is actively working to minimize their dependence on the us. We don't know what will come after Trump so better prepare as if Trump were stll there.

 

[Dragon]

And Europe is actively working to minimize their dependence on the us. We don't know what will come after Trump so better prepare as if Trump were stll there.

And with Canada too

Canada and EU sign defence pact amid strained US relations and global instability https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/23/canada-eu-defense-trump-us-allies?CMP=share_btn_url

 

[MT15]

I have read from people close to Trump who know him well that he doesn’t respect people who are so servile to him. He holds them in contempt, even though he enjoys the flattery and actually demands it.

I guess we shall see, but I rather prize more honesty than manipulation tactics like this.

 

[Dragon]

I have read from people close to Trump who know him well that he doesn’t respect people who are so servile to him. He holds them in contempt, even though he enjoys the flattery and actually demands it.

I guess we shall see, but I rather prize more honesty than manipulation tactics like this.

If things really matter (decisions) he would encounter a stonewall. Merkel is no push over. But a few words ... without particular importance.. Just show how weak and easily manipulated he is.

 

[Lapaz]

The attack on Iran may work, but I doubt it. I think it is probably going to result in irregular warfare against Americans. The only way to prevent it is to change the regime. A far better approach would’ve been to return to the JCPOA. It’ll be far harder to negotiate a deal after this attack. Trump was asked about possible terrorists attacks, and of course he blamed Biden without evidence, but there is no doubt that Trump has motivated terrorism. And this nonsense about giving Trump a Nobel peace prize is ludicrous. If he could’ve done it peacefully, then I would agree, but you don’t deserve a peace prize by going to war, even if it does reduce risks. The means matter.

 

[MT15]

The means matter.

Not to what’s left of the GOP. Not to MAGA.

 

[MT15]

He’s losing it again. Over the fact that news organizations won’t believe his lies.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

The reason why is so they can continue on with their narrative of the greatest military mission in Earth's history.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

He’s losing it again. Over the fact that news organizations won’t believe his lies.

He's experiencing the same level of criticism, scrutiny and correction that he faced in his last year in office over COVID, but this time he's only in his fifth month. He's not going to make it through his full four year term. He's going to have a mental breakdown or serious health crisis before then.

 

[MT15]

One can only hope.

Yeah, the guy who gets grownups to pretend he wins every club championship he has at his golf clubs cannot stand it when facts interrupt his fantasies. Delusional butt crevasse.